Coming out of the 'Above 50...' thread, idle speculation on my part: what are the shortest and longest possible circular routes - i.e. which will, starting from some point, bring you back to the same point, facing in the same direction, ready to go round again. For the longest, without passing over the same piece of line twice. Would there be a longer route if passing over the pieces of line twice, but in opposite directions. Either as a train, or a passenger...
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[Trivia]Shortest and Longest Circular Routes Possible
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My guess is that Newcastle Central to Newcastle Central via King Edward VII and High Level bridges is shortest.
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Farigiraf
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A potential contender for longest (could be optimised further though) would be from Falkirk, going Falkirk Grahamston - Edinburgh - Newcastle - York - Leeds - Doncaster - Lincoln - Sleaford - Peterborough - Stevenage - Finsbury Park (via Hertford loop) - London St Pancras - London Bridge - East Croydon - Gatwick Airport - Hove - Chichester - Havant - Eastleigh - Romsey - Salisbury - Exeter St Davids - Bristol Temple Meads - Severn Tunnel Junction - Cwmbran (via disused by passenger services curve at Newport) - Shrewsbury - Crewe* - Wilmslow - Manchester Piccadilly - Bolton - Preston - Lancaster - Carlisle (via Cumbrian Coast) - Motherwell - Cumbernauld - Falkirk Grahamston
* can also go with a northern approach to Crewe via Wrexham and Chester, then going via Derby and Hope Valley (using curve just south of Dore & Totley) into Manchester
(in a nutshell)
* can also go with a northern approach to Crewe via Wrexham and Chester, then going via Derby and Hope Valley (using curve just south of Dore & Totley) into Manchester
(in a nutshell)
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Starting at eg Lancaster, a trip up the WCML to Glasgow then up to Inverness via Perth, down to Edinburgh via Aberdeen and Dundee, then ECML will add a fair bit of mileage.
Dfatcontroller
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All very good until the end; how are you getting from Cumbernauld to Croy?
Perhaps, Motherwell - Coatbridge Central - Gartcosh - Springburn - Bishopbriggs - Croy.
Dr Hoo
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You’re going to have to reverse at Inverness.
zwk500
Veteran Member
If you turn left at Redhill instead of carrying on to Gatwick, you can stretch out the journey to Havant slightly by running Tonbridge, *Ashford, Dover, Ramsgate, Rochester, Dartford, Lewisham, Demark Hill, Clapham Jn (Windsor side, and you can detour up the WLL if you want), Chertsey, Guildford.
* - Not sure if you might get a higher total mileage diving down to Hastings and then using an alternative route from Ashford back to Dartford.
If you want to avoid 'figure of 8' type routes, you'd turn on to the North kent out of the Thameslink core and then run Dartford - Ramsgate - Dover - Ashford - Redhill - East Croydon - Clapham Jn - WLL - Mitre Bridge - Kew - Chertsey.
waverley47
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Either one of (these are mutually exclusive) going from Carlisle via Dumfries, Paisley and the City Union line to Croy, or from Motherwell via the Argyll line, Anniesland, Maryhill, Springburn, Gartcosh, Cumbernauld and Falkirk Grahamston will add on a decent chuck if mileage, but I'm unable to work out which is longer.
ABB125
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Definitely not the shortest, but two short loops in Birmingham are New Street-University-King's Norton north curve-Camp Hill-New Street, or New Street-Soho-Perry Barr-Aston-New Street.
I don't think it's possible to beat the Newcastle bridge loop though!
(As an aside, I'm struggling to think of many other examples who are fairly short. Glasgow Queen Street LL-Springburn-Anniesland-Queen Street LL works, Edinburgh south suburban line also works. After that, I've run out of ideas!)
I don't think it's possible to beat the Newcastle bridge loop though!
(As an aside, I'm struggling to think of many other examples who are fairly short. Glasgow Queen Street LL-Springburn-Anniesland-Queen Street LL works, Edinburgh south suburban line also works. After that, I've run out of ideas!)
Not sure if it's "fairly short", but it's possible to go around the Fife Circle forever (using the curve from Dalgety Bay to Rosyth, bypassing Inverkeithing).
One of the longest could be surely :
Peterborough down the ECML - Harringray curve - Crouch Hill - Willesden - WCML
For bi-modes :
Gretna Green - Mauchline Branch - Newton on Ayr - through to the Clysdale Line - North Clyde Line - Edinburgh Park - Suburban Line - Newcraighall - ECML through the Millerhill yard - Peterborough
Peterborough down the ECML - Harringray curve - Crouch Hill - Willesden - WCML
For bi-modes :
Gretna Green - Mauchline Branch - Newton on Ayr - through to the Clysdale Line - North Clyde Line - Edinburgh Park - Suburban Line - Newcraighall - ECML through the Millerhill yard - Peterborough
Bevan Price
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You could extend that even further:
Shrewsbury (Abbey Foregate curve) - Wolverhampton - Birmingham New Street - Vauxhall - Bescot - Walsall - Rugeley - Stafford - Crewe, then as above.
The Long Marston loop test track must be about the same :
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I very nearly did that last week. I was on a train from Carlisle to Newcastle, and rather than going into Newcastle on the King Edward VII bridge like it has every other time I've been on it, it got to the junction at the south end of that bridge and went into the station from the east instead, going across the High Level Bridge. Train on the way back went the usual way, and as I also went on the metro to Gateshead its the one and only time I've been across all 3 Newcastle rail bridges on the same day.
Can you do east to north onto the Central Wales Line at Pontarddulais, rather than going via Cwmbran?
... or from Northern approach to Crewe, to Birmingham then through Worcester - Oxford - Didcot - not quite Westbury - Reading - Staines - Clapham Jn - West London Line - Northampton - Grand Junction - Walsall - Water Orton - Leicester - Derby - Stoke - Stockport - Guide Bridge - Hope Valley - Sheffield - Huddersfield - Hebden Bridge - Rochdale - Manchester Vic to Bolton ...
Or does not going via Leeds on your way south give you a longer option? Or is there mileage in, from Leeds keping vaguely westwards across the Penines and back, before heading South? What would that preclude later?
From Carlisle, can you gain anything by taking the G&SW, then taking loops round south and west of Glasgow onto the E&G? Not my area... Or going through Fife, starting at Stirling rather than Falkirk?
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61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
My only objection to that one is that as you don't pass through any other stations en-route, such a "service" would be pointless from a passenger perspective. Though the OP did not specify that the service had to be useful, that's just how I interpreted the topic. With that additional constraint, I suspect the shortest would be those in post #9 courtesy of @ABB125
Springs Branch
Established Member
What about the Glasgow Subway for the shortest?
How could someone located at a bridge on the River Cam neglect the Fens!?
Try Peterborough-Ely-Ipswich-Stratford-Willesden Junction-Shepherds Bush-Clapham Junction-East Croydon.
Farigiraf
Established Member
Is the Swansea District Line - Heart of Wales line curve still functional? I don't see why any train would really use it (unless specials from Cardiff to Builth Road take that route) so it could be decommissioned...
Wasn't aware of a route from the lines west/southwest of Glasgow Central onto the Argyle/Cumbernauld, but I think it's possible to go on a through line from Crossmyloof to Bellgrove, then Springburn, then Falkirk. There's no South to East line at Inverness nor a South to West route at Dundee/Invergowrie, but going via the Alloa-Dunfermline link is an option.
insert 'facepalm' emoji
For shortest, Clapham Junction-Wandsworth Road-Brixton-Herne Hill-Tulse Hill-Streatham Hill-Clapham Junction is in for a shot, among other short London routes
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Cheshire Scot
Established Member
for a bit of extra mileage
1. Wilmslow - Stockport - Denton - Ashton Moss Jn -Manchester Vic
2. Manchester Picc or Vic - Parkside Jn - Golborne Jn - Wigan - Preston
You can do the loop on a single train but you do not start the loop at the station but at King Edward Bridge E Jn.
1N33 2000 Kings's Cross to Sunderland on a weekday is booked to enter Newcastle from the High Level Bridge and leave over the King Edward Bridge so you go past the site of Gateshead (GD) TMD twice.
Link to today's 1N33:
Realtime Trains | 1N33 2000 London Kings Cross to Sunderland | 12/07/2024
Real-time train running information for 1N33 2000 departure from London Kings Cross to Sunderland on 12/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
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