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ScotRail cancelling services July 2024

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Abc100

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They are booked units rather than subs, and as mentioned upthread it's too difficult to alter diagrams significantly on a temporary basis like this. The 1745 is booked 170+158 as a slight compensation.
Appreciate that - though as it’s school holidays and tourist season, the general public won’t be too sympathetic to the finer details having reserved seats on high capacity services at high cost to end up standing on cramped DMU’s that aren’t fit for a 3 hour journey.

Would a better option not have been to cancel the odd DMU workings on intercity routes and run the planned higher capacity trains?

The inconvenience of overcrowding or a packed standing room DMU set on a 20 minute central belt commuter service isn’t great, but on a 3 hour Aberdeen or Inverness to Glasgow “intercity” route it’s really not acceptable, however challenging the diagrams are for scotrail to manage.

It doesn’t appear anywhere on news reports that any discussions are actively happening to resolve the situation either?
 
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Scotrail84

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TRNSMT festival is on at Glasgow Green this Friday, Saturday and Sunday. That will heap enormous pressure on services in Central Scotland. Especially a half hourly E and G service.
 

hexagon789

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TRNSMT festival is on at Glasgow Green this Friday, Saturday and Sunday. That will heap enormous pressure on services in Central Scotland. Especially a half hourly E and G service.
Half hourly on Friday/Saturday, only hourly on Sunday. Don't fancy travel that day...
 

Abc100

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TRNSMT festival is on at Glasgow Green this Friday, Saturday and Sunday. That will heap enormous pressure on services in Central Scotland. Especially a half hourly E and G service.
In which case, this makes the very limited frequency and DMU allocation to the intercity services out of Glasgow extremely ill thought out and dangerous for overcrowding
 

Scotrail84

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Half hourly on Friday/Saturday, only hourly on Sunday. Don't fancy travel that day...

If this rolls into August, which it could well do then the Edinburgh Fringe services will take a battering as well. Theres usually additional services on a Friday and Saturday to get festival goers home.
 

ld0595

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An hourly E-G service is pathetic. That's going to cause some serious overcrowding - especially if it rolls on til August.

Looks like the Neilston line is down to hourly too.
 

Kite159

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Scottish Citylink are probably laughing their way to the bank with the potential extra customers for the Glasgow - Edinburgh coaches, especially on Sundays where the train will be hourly
 

Rockhopperr

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Scottish Citylink are probably laughing their way to the bank with the potential extra customers for the Glasgow - Edinburgh coaches, especially on Sundays where the train will be hourly
Aye. We’ve just booked the bus as the last train home from Edinburgh is 1855 this Sunday. This really shouldn’t be allowed to happen. Silence from senior management/government regarding informing the public with talks progress, if there is any. Have to ask, why? Is this what “they” want?
 

najaB

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Silence from senior management/government regarding informing the public with talks progress, if there is any.
It's usually the case that the only info we will get is when a formal offer is made, and when it's either accepted or rejected. Then silence and repeat.
 

John Bishop

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How much is this all costing the company. It gets to the stage where it’s cheaper making a decent offer to end the current situation than enduring massively reduced revenue and loss of customer goodwill etc etc. The term “cutting your nose off to spite your face” springs to mind.
 

Scotrail84

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How much is this all costing the company. It gets to the stage where it’s cheaper making a decent offer to end the current situation than enduring massively reduced revenue and loss of customer goodwill etc etc. The term “cutting your nose off to spite your face” springs to mind.

It's the Scottish Gov, not the company. The gov dictate to ScotRail what to offer and ScotRail have to go with it.
 

najaB

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How much is this all costing the company. It gets to the stage where it’s cheaper making a decent offer to end the current situation than enduring massively reduced revenue and loss of customer goodwill etc etc.
Now I don't mind paying another penny or two in the pound in additional income tax to pay for better public-sector (and arms-length public body) pay settlements, but I don't know if everyone else feels the same way.
 

Abc100

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It's the Scottish Gov, not the company. The gov dictate to ScotRail what to offer and ScotRail have to go with it.
And the Scotgov heralded the return of Scotrail to public ownership as bringing massive improvements to service and reliability - are they able to let us know when to expect these?

Since scotgov took things in house there’s been endless emergency timetables, poor union relations, service disruptions etc - I’m not really certain Abellio were any worse. At least abellio were accountable to the scotgov over performance so could be pressured to resolve the situation and maintain their franchise agreement…
 

John Bishop

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It's the Scottish Gov, not the company. The gov dictate to ScotRail what to offer and ScotRail have to go with it.
Yeah I’m well aware of that. My original statement still stands, regardless of who is paying the wages. This disruption is costing a hell of a lot of money!
 

mcmad

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Yeah I’m well aware of that. My original statement still stands, regardless of who is paying the wages. This disruption is costing a hell of a lot of money!
Is it costing money though or do the reduced bills for wages and running costs exceed the farebox take?
 

Abc100

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Is it costing money though or do the reduced bills for wages and running costs exceed the farebox take?
There’s also the impact on the already challenged tourism industry across Scotland - you’d think the scotgov would be trying as hard as possible to keep as many intercity and tourist routes going as possible during the key summer months to support this but it doesn’t seem so!
 

Tractor2018

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Let's be honest.

Despite Aslef's often-stated desire for a full complement of drivers to be employed by ScotRail - there will be a fair number of drivers who won't want this.

It would mean no (or much reduced) rest-day working and overtime required.

If this happened, they'd lose leverage in negotiations... what is happening right now wouldn't be happening.
What's your point though?

ScotRail should employ enough drivers or they shouldn't?

When it comes to depot establishments ASLEF's desires are an irrelevance, should minimums be met.

You think ASLEF are against full compliments? Or drivers are against them cos they enjoy not enough spare cover?

Bizarre opinion.
 

WAB

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How much is this all costing the company. It gets to the stage where it’s cheaper making a decent offer to end the current situation than enduring massively reduced revenue and loss of customer goodwill etc etc. The term “cutting your nose off to spite your face” springs to mind.
And then at the next set of pay talks, what happens then?

Does ScotRail keep paying whatever the unions demand, and accept it as yet another spiralling railway cost, along with upward pressure on the management grade salaries (and others in the industry)?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

You think ASLEF are against full compliments? Or drivers are against them cos they enjoy not enough spare cover?
I think it is reasonable to say that depot establishments should be set at such a level which can cover most services in a typical year.

I think it is also reasonable to consider that drivers who enjoyed the extra money from overtime payments may not want the availability of overtime to be largely eliminated, and would thus be lobbying their ASLEF reps accordingly.
 
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380101

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I think it is reasonable to say that depot establishments should be set at such a level which can cover most services in a typical year.

I think it is also reasonable to consider that drivers who enjoyed the extra money from overtime payments may not want the availability of overtime to be largely eliminated, and would thus be lobbying their ASLEF reps accordingly.

It is part of the ASLEF charter to eliminate rest day working and institutionalised overtime. As such, ASLEF only enter into agreements for Rest Day Working with TOCs if they are recruiting and/or training new drivers. If TOCs are not doing any of that, then no rdw agreement will be entered into. It is extremely unlikely that any ASLEF rep would be negotiating for more overtime to be made available.

As a driver that is currently enjoying my days off, I can assure you and other commentators on this thread, I've never once heard any of my colleagues ask for there to be more overtime!
 

Charged up

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Is it costing money though or do the reduced bills for wages and running costs exceed the farebox take?

ASLEF inaction by its members in the coming weeks, and service reductions, will reduce the subsidy from the Scot Gov into ScotRail, which bleeds money every hour of the day. In the future every service that it does not run will save money & if it gets to a point where train staff go on strike the savings will probably be even greater. If RMT members strike but drivers still work it will concentrate on running a very limited service frequency on its busy routes [E&G plus GLC-Ayrshire & Lanark]. ASLEF members striking will result in no services running.

Since nationalisation the Scot Gov has slowly realised that it cannot afford to run the current network and the 2200+ services per day. It has continued to blindly pump in money, as it has mistakenly done with other transport projects, mainly hoping that there would be a switch from road to ScotRail to help deliver its over optimistic 2035 de-carbonisation targets [which have now been dropped].

The fixed costs which it has to pay for the rail package of network, rolling stock and staff is inefficient and inflexible and the 3% pay rise for the next 3 years will not fit with the need for massive cuts to reduce the overall rail subsidy.

BUDGET £M 2023-24 2024-25
Enhancement Projects 155.8 146.9
Rail Services 1,083.1 965.7
Network Infrastructure 442.0 488.4
Total Rail Services 1,680.9 1,601.0


Running old, unreliable stock plus various TT changes will not help attract new users and ScR annual usage sits around 2/3 of its pre-Covid usage levels of c. 100M passengers pa. As usual the hard decisions around closing stations, ticket offices, staff redundancies, job duplication and conductor replacements have been avoided by the SNP government and the budget will come under massive pressure in the coming years if revenue does not grow. Even the flagship peak fares removal "trial" has been a damp squib and has only seen the cash support requirements increase.

SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT FOI response -
Analysis was undertaken as part of part of the preparations for the SG Budget 23-24 on the budget implications of removing ScotRail peak fares from the rail network. The decision to undertake a 6 month pilot scheme in 23-24, linked to the Fair Fares Review, was announced as part of the budget process with an estimated additional budget requirement of £15m...... point estimate of £21.8m as the revenue loss from removal of peak fares (before refunds). When the revenue from additional demand (£6.6m) and refunds are taken into account, £15.4 m is the point estimate of the likely level of costs in this scenario.
 

Falcon1200

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Now I don't mind paying another penny or two in the pound in additional income tax to pay for better public-sector (and arms-length public body) pay settlements, but I don't know if everyone else feels the same way.

Probably not! In the particular case being discussed here, would people on say £30,000 a year be happy paying more income tax to give others on twice that basic a larger pay increase? IMHO larger pay increases should be directed first at those at the lower end of pay scales. There could also be no objection to staff at a financially successful business distributing more of its wealth to its staff; But that is not the case with Scotrail.
 

hiall

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Is it costing money though or do the reduced bills for wages and running costs exceed the farebox take?
They will be saving a pretty penny with no RDW in place. Some where suggesting up to £1million per month. This pay deal will not be solved soon, sadly.
 

chuff chuff

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They will be saving a pretty penny with no RDW in place. Some where suggesting up to £1million per month. This pay deal will not be solved soon, sadly.
If that's for drivers only that would be 2000 rest days worked.......
 

kw12

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If that's for drivers only that would be 2000 rest days worked.......
So around 83 rest days worked per day (Mondays to Saturdays), in which case the 600 services a day temporarily withdrawn would equate to an average of 7 services per rest day worked .......
 

cadder toad

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It was mentioned above that there was one Glasgow to Edinburgh train per hour on Sundays. There's a second from the low level. Leaves 15 minutes before the express, so might function as a relief
 

hexagon789

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It was mentioned above that there was one Glasgow to Edinburgh train per hour on Sundays. There's a second from the low level. Leaves 15 minutes before the express, so might function as a relief
I was deliberately discounting that on journey time/route basis, but for completeness there's also 6 ScotRail and 2 CrossCountry services from Central as well.
 

eoff

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I meant to ask this the other day. I noticed that Scotrail keep trumpeting this phrase...

While we're recruiting 160 new drivers each year to improve resilience.

I took it to mean 160 additional drivers beyond normal recruitment to cover drivers leaving (retirement, change jobs, etc.) but now I wonder if that is the case and if not then what is the rough number of drivers leaving in a year?
 

najaB

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IMHO larger pay increases should be directed first at those at the lower end of pay scales.
No disagreement there. I have zero idea how pay works at Scotrail, but in the places I've worked there's a band associated with each role and pay increases get smaller the closer you are to the top of the band. I wouldn't be surprised to see an offer of £X per year regardless of band, which is obviously better for those at the bottom.
 

Scotrail84

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No disagreement there. I have zero idea how pay works at Scotrail, but in the places I've worked there's a band associated with each role and pay increases get smaller the closer you are to the top of the band. I wouldn't be surprised to see an offer of £X per year regardless of band, which is obviously better for those at the bottom.
Each grade gets the same % increase thats agreed by their respective unions regardless.
 
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