How to impress new MPs (not!)

[yorksrob]

Personally I think MPs should be allowed to go first class, especially for longer distances. Contrary to what people think they are very busy, and I am sure they would welcome the extra space and privacy to be able to use the time effectively, typically on constituency business.

The MP for Penzance will spend around 10 hours a week on GWR, travelling between their constituency and London, and I am sure they could work much more effectively in first.

I think that a better situation would be that MP's get standard class (or first if less expensive) on expenses, then if they wish to go first class, they can pay the difference.

 

[Snow1964]

A reminder that the primary issues that kicked most of the politicians off with Avanti was...
- the cancellation of the early Blackpool London (no TM)
- Avanti ran it empty stock for the entire 3hr journey to reduce their penalty by 50%.
- Both Blackpool Preston and Preston Euston drivers drove their booked jobs.

In other words the missing Train manager, opened the railway to social media ridicule from new MPs.

Sometimes it looks like individual members of railway staff, even if not doing it deliberately, manage to assist negative image of rail.

 

[MrJeeves]

Where do I suggest that I did? In the case of a delay, any compensation goes to my public sector employer, not my pocket. Yes I’m inconvenienced, but I’m travelling on works time.

I think you'd be the only one that does that, honestly.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I think you'd be the only one that does that, honestly.

Most employers will not even have a system to pay back expenses!

 

[YorkshireBear]

I think you'd be the only one that does that, honestly.

For us we have to claim delay repay through the agent we buy business travel tickets off which is a faff so all that happens is no one does it.

 

[Whisky Papa]

I suspect this was all a co-ordinated bit of rail bashing by Labour.

My MP's tweet at 0924 from Hebden Bridge does seem a bit of a mystery - RTT shows only one minor delay (2I05, the 0914 to Leeds which was 7 late but arrived in Leeds 4 minutes late) around that time, although there had been a couple of cancellations to Leeds at 0742 and 0750, which IS bad!

He would have encountered problems further on though, with both the 1015 and 1045 Leeds to King's Cross services cancelled due to signalling issues somewhere. I'd be surprised if he was aware of this so far in advance, though?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Back in the day when Delay Repay was usually in Rail Travel Vouchers the custom at my place was to apply for the voucher and then hold them collectively for use when attending funerals of rail industry colleagues. This could hardly count as core business but enabled the organisation to pay its respects without using ‘official’ money.
As @HullRailMan pointed out, the original delay/disruption would occur in ‘company’ time and was not really a ‘personal’ loss.
I suppose that everyone had their own view.

 

[RexMundi]

There is a particular issue with the Avanti services in North Wales which is the replacement of half the Voyager services with the new 805s since the beginning of June.

The 805s do not yet seem to be running with any degree of reliability. Trains are frequently cancelled, only run part of the scheduled journey or are short formed.

There also seem to be staffing issues but it's hard to tell what the ratio of staffing issues and train reliability issues are.

It’s reliability at the moment, so many problems with the new trains

 

[WesternLancer]

I think that a better situation would be that MP's get standard class (or first if less expensive) on expenses, then if they wish to go first class, they can pay the difference.

They do - only standard class tickets are claimable since the expenses scandal - I personally think this is daft actually - for reasons well set out in the thread above.

If 1st class was still charged at 50% above std class fares, as I think remains common on many continental railways, it would not even be a significant extra cost.

 

[yorksrob]

They do - only standard class tickets are claimable since the expenses scandal - I personally think this is daft actually - for reasons well set out in the thread above.

If 1st class was still charged at 50% above std class fares, as I think remains common on many continental railways, it would not even be a significant extra cost.

Well that's partly the issue - making mp's pay for any extras out of their own pocket will help to keep them in touch with the realities of our over-commercialised network.

Also, this seems to be the norm for other public sector business travel.

 

[MrJeeves]

They do - only standard class tickets are claimable since the expenses scandal - I personally think this is daft actually - for reasons well set out in the thread above.

Hence why some operators have "standard" tickets with a complimentary first class upgrade... Very cheeky!

 

[WesternLancer]

Also, this seems to be the norm for other public sector business travel.

dunno where it's at in the civil service these days but it varied by grade. I recall my long retired mum complaining that this meant if a team of them went to a work meeting by train they could not use the time on the train to prepare and meet because the senior person / people would be in 1st and she and others seated in 2nd Class....

 

[185]

In other words the missing Train manager, opened the railway to social media ridicule from new MPs. Sometimes it looks like individual members of railway staff, even if not doing it deliberately, manage to assist negative image of rail.

Either way, Avantis own doing. The more likely alternative, the operator didn't employ enough staff and relied on overtime which is cheaper and more profitable for FirstGroup.

Disgraceful those staff having a day off

(**Negative image of FirstGroup is hopefully the desired outcome)

 

[AndrewP]

I don't know the expenses policy for MPs but expenses are always a joy and what I have experienced with many clients is that there is a limit of the standard open fare but receipts must be provided and you can't claim more than you have actually spent and that there are organisation specific rules on first class (and premium classes on airlines) with this often being based on time spent travelling.

Speaking personally, I have paid my own first class upgrades when it is worth it to me and have paid for business travel when it was not going to be expenses when I think a face to face meeting is going to lead to success in a project or resolve an issue and I have run out of patience!

 

[poffle]

New MPs pushing for a nomination to the Transport Select Committee ?

 

[yorksrob]

dunno where it's at in the civil service these days but it varied by grade. I recall my long retired mum complaining that this meant if a team of them went to a work meeting by train they could not use the time on the train to prepare and meet because the senior person / people would be in 1st and she and others seated in 2nd Class....

As you say, if it were the 50% differential, this would be less of an issue.

A lesson for the political class perhaps.

 

[Wolfie]

dunno where it's at in the civil service these days but it varied by grade. I recall my long retired mum complaining that this meant if a team of them went to a work meeting by train they could not use the time on the train to prepare and meet because the senior person / people would be in 1st and she and others seated in 2nd Class....

Not since at least 2010. Indeed we were pressured to buy Standard class tickets even when, as occasionally happened, First was actually cheaper.

 

[paul1609]

Personally I think MPs should be allowed to go first class, especially for longer distances. Contrary to what people think they are very busy, and I am sure they would welcome the extra space and privacy to be able to use the time effectively, typically on constituency business.

The MP for Penzance will spend around 10 hours a week on GWR, travelling between their constituency and London, and I am sure they could work much more effectively in first.

If I was the MP for West Cornwall Id drive to Newquay airport and fly to Gatwick, youd get a lot more work done that way.

 

[En]

In other words the missing Train manager, opened the railway to social media ridicule from new MPs.

Sometimes it looks like individual members of railway staff, even if not doing it deliberately, manage to assist negative image of rail.

exatly what level of 'spare' staff at each and every signing on point, each and every day do you consider to be necessary ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2024 ==

dunno where it's at in the civil service these days but it varied by grade. I recall my long retired mum complaining that this meant if a team of them went to a work meeting by train they could not use the time on the train to prepare and meet because the senior person / people would be in 1st and she and others seated in 2nd Class....

while not civil service i remember a similar discussion probably 15 - 20 years ago in a Charity , where senior staff and volunteers from the North west ( i.e. Lancashire and Cumbria) where complained at for having first class seats on a train back to the NW after a full day in London , the first class ticket , booked in advance wa sa few pounds more expensive than Standard, but the individuals didn;t have ot put ina claim for evening meals , having had access to the complimentary offerings in the 1st class lunge at Euston and the on train offering

 

[30907]

A reminder that the primary issues that kicked most of the politicians off with Avanti was...
- the cancellation of the early Blackpool London (no TM)
- Avanti ran it empty stock for the entire 3hr journey to reduce their penalty by 50%.

Presumably you mean "to avoid cancelling the return working"?

 

[En]

Presumably you mean "to avoid cancelling the return working"?

that's using facts to prevent a rant ... when it's a (small p) political topic that people may want to make (big P ) Political ...

 

[Howardh]

No doubt they will claim the fare on expenses and then pocket the delay repay.

I was going to ask, had any of them mentioned the fares?As for MP's in certain classes, I saw a very high-profile Minister (now ex!!) in an Avanti standard plus, so not actual first class, but a decent seat with table for a reasonable price; so if that's on expenses then fair enough!

 

[Topological]

Not since at least 2010. Indeed we were pressured to buy Standard class tickets even when, as occasionally happened, First was actually cheaper.

This is true for most of our travel too, if it says 1st on the ticket it will not be paid.

That said, more senior people get first and I am doing a job soon where the expenses permit first.

At one place we had a fixed allowance but could book business class flights if the flight was more than 10 hours. Needless to say you wouldn't have much left for a hotel after taking the business class fare out of the allowance.

 

[Snow1964]

exatly what level of 'spare' staff at each and every signing on point, each and every day do you consider to be necessary ?

That train was doing 200+ miles, I don't expect everything, but being able to find someone (even a trained manager to cover) until it got to Euston was pretty poor show.

No point having a PR Dept if they take the own goal approach to media.

Maybe the rostered person was late informing, so left no time to substitute, or perhaps Avanti didn't even roster anyone

 

[poffle]

That train was doing 200+ miles, I don't expect everything, but being able to find someone (even a trained manager to cover) until it got to Euston was pretty poor show.

No point having a PR Dept if they take the own goal approach to media.

Maybe the rostered person was late informing, so left no time to substitute, or perhaps Avanti didn't even roster anyone

That train normally starts the day in Crewe and runs ECS to Blackpool. So it actually ended up running ECS Crewe - Blackpool - Crewe - Euston. This would tend to suggest that the cancellation was quite late otherwise AWC could have just cancelled the Crewe - Blackpool - Crewe ECS bit.

It's not unusual for that train to start from Crewe and only do the Crewe - Euston section.

The return working is the 0902 "Boat Train" from Euston to Holyhead. That did seem to run as normal yesterday. ( It's also not unusual for the Blackpool - Euston to be cancelled completely and for the Holyhead train to start at Crewe.)

 

[Krokodil]

In other words the missing Train manager, opened the railway to social media ridicule from new MPs.

Sometimes it looks like individual members of railway staff, even if not doing it deliberately, manage to assist negative image of rail.

How do you know that there wasn't a legitimate reason for the TM's absence?

It’s reliability at the moment, so many problems with the new trains

Not in this case, the one that the Bangor and Wrexham MPs would have been catching is Voyager-operated.

If I was the MP for West Cornwall Id drive to Newquay airport and fly to Gatwick, youd get a lot more work done that way.

I'd have thought that they'd be on the sleeper.

 

[FenMan]

If I was the MP for West Cornwall Id drive to Newquay airport and fly to Gatwick, youd get a lot more work done that way.

Sleeper westbound on Thursday night and eastbound on Sunday night surely?

 

[Pinus contorta]

My MP's tweet at 0924 from Hebden Bridge does seem a bit of a mystery - RTT shows only one minor delay (2I05, the 0914 to Leeds which was 7 late but arrived in Leeds 4 minutes late) around that time, although there had been a couple of cancellations to Leeds at 0742 and 0750, which IS bad!

He would have encountered problems further on though, with both the 1015 and 1045 Leeds to King's Cross services cancelled due to signalling issues somewhere. I'd be surprised if he was aware of this so far in advance, though?

A politician manipulating the facts to suit their curcumstances? Surely not!

 

[Phil from Mon]

dunno where it's at in the civil service these days but it varied by grade. I recall my long retired mum complaining that this meant if a team of them went to a work meeting by train they could not use the time on the train to prepare and meet because the senior person / people would be in 1st and she and others seated in 2nd Class....

When I was in a Civil Service-related role (Govt funded, Civil Service pension and terms) the rule was that if a group travelled we got the rate for the highest-ranked staff member, so would stay and (on the rare occasions we went by train) travel together. But, that was the days of no receipts, so we would all claim the high rate and stay and travel on the cheap to make a bit of cash on the side.

 

[Caaardiff]

Henry Tufnell, MP for Mid and South Pembrokeshire, who travelled to the capital on Sunday, posted, external: "Heading to London and excited to begin work as the MP for Mid & South Pembrokeshire.
"Unfortunately the journey involves no direct trains from #Pembrokeshire and a delayed GWRHelp train via Gloucester. Lots of work to be done..."

Another MP that has no idea what he's talking about. Unless Labour plan to invest in double tracking or putting in more passing loops on the Pembroke Dock line, or adding another platform at Carmarthen for capacity, his wishes are pretty much impossible. If he wants direct London - Pembroke Dock services, then TFW will have to reduce their services. GWR don't call all stations, whereas TFW do. Will he be happy at some stations having fewer services so he can get a long green train to London?