False details. Stupid mistakes.

[ce1999]

Hi,

I have recently done something incredibly stupid and gave false details to an inspector. The main reason being the cost of trains is so high and I was trying to save a bit of money by saying I had a railcard when I did not. I did have an older railcard but it had expired. He took a photo of this and asked me to upload my latest card to stop any fines etc. but of course I do not have one. He took my real name, but a neighbours address and a fake DOB. I am feeling incredibly guilty and wish I had just told the truth. I’ve had incredibly poor mental health recently and I think I just panicked. I am not excusing what I have done but I want to put it right if I am able to. Any advice much appreciate.

 

[John R]

If you have given false details then the risk is that the railway tries to find you, fails, prosecutes in your absence, and the first you hear of it is when the baliffs turn up to remove property to pay the fine you will have been issued with. (And you will have a criminal conviction too.) That will be extremely difficult to untangle, and would rely on the company being open to doing so, which they may not be given the problem is of your making.

So it is important that you contact the company to give them your correct address. Did you get anything in writing from the inspector as a result of your conversation that may help you contact them? If so, can you upload it.

Also, what journey were you taking, (preferably the exact train you were on) and was the inspection on the train or at a barrier?

 

[ce1999]

If you have given false details then the risk is that the railway tries to find you, fails, prosecutes in your absence, and the first you hear of it is when the baliffs turn up to remove property to pay the fine you will have been issued with. (And you will have a criminal conviction too.) That will be extremely difficult to untangle, and would rely on the company being open to doing so, which they may not be given the problem is of your making.

So it is important that you contact the company to give them your correct address. Did you get anything in writing from the inspector as a result of your conversation that may help you contact them? If so, can you upload it.

Also, what journey were you taking, (preferably the exact train you were on) and was the inspection on the train or at a barrier?

Thanks for replying.
Wouldn’t they contact me if they did find me instead of having baliffs turn up? I own absolutely nothing of value so would rather pay a fine.

It was on a Thameslink train traveling from Brighton towards London, the inspection was on the train. They only thing they gave me was information with a link on to upload the railcard. No other contact details.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Which train company are you dealing with? Were you given any paperwork when you were stopped? If so can you post a copy of it on this thread, with personal details redacted.

You are going to have to have a tricky conversation with your neighbour to make sure you get hold of the letter.

The situation is probably sortable out of court but will involve some leg work on your part.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks for replying.
Wouldn’t they contact me if they did find me instead of having baliffs turn up?

No, if you are prosecuted and don't pay the fine, this means you are not carrying out your sentence as punishment for the offence, so in that case, yes, they will send bailiffs to remove goods or take payment.

You need to try and avoid court.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Won't the train company's investigation team possibly be able to ascertain the OP's name and (correct) address by looking into the online account and/or payment card used to purchase the inappropriately discounted ticket?

 

[John R]

Won't the train company's investigation team possibly be able to ascertain the OP's name and (correct) address by looking into the online account and/or payment card used to purchase the inappropriately discounted ticket?

If they have been given a false address, written to it, not received any reply, they are entitled to assume that the person has just ignored it (as I believe many people do). And so proceed to prosecution, without carrying out further work to try and ascertain a correct address, which will cost more and delay prosecution.


Which appears to be what has happened here.

 

[WesternLancer]

Won't the train company's investigation team possibly be able to ascertain the OP's name and (correct) address by looking into the online account and/or payment card used to purchase the inappropriately discounted ticket?

Yes, but would they bother? If the railway believed the false details given, they would just use them I suspect - the OP won't get the letters, the railway will assume they are being ignored, escalator keeps going and eventually it reaches court, OP found guilty automatically, fine then not paid, escalated to bailiffs, bailiffs eventually find the OP - by which time costs have escalated - just like a case posted earlier today - and sum has gone up substantially.

OP needs to engage with railway and give them their correct details, then negotiate for out of court settlement to avoid all this, avoid criminal record and pay less.

If Thameslink this is all entirely possible - esp with help from this forum.

 

[ce1999]

Yes, but would they bother? If the railway believed the false details given, they would just use them I suspect - the OP won't get the letters, the railway will assume they are being ignored, escalator keeps going and eventually it reaches court, OP found guilty automatically, fine then not paid, escalated to bailiffs, bailiffs eventually find the OP - by which time costs have escalated - just like a case posted earlier today - and sum has gone up substantially.

OP needs to engage with railway and give them their correct details, then negotiate for out of court settlement to avoid all this, avoid criminal record and pay less.

If Thameslink this is all entirely possible - esp with help from this forum.

Thanks for your reply. It was with Thameslink - how would I go about contacting them?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for your reply. It was with Thameslink - how would I go about contacting them?

I think @Fawkes Cat was compiling e-mail and possibly postal addresses - search other threads for Thameslink where ppl have uploaded letters from prosecutions unit with their contact details on the letterhead that you can use

You need to be dealing with revenue protection / prosecutions / fare evasion team - not Customer Services

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I think @Fawkes Cat was compiling e-mail and possibly postal addresses - search other threads for Thameslink where ppl have uploaded letters from prosecutions unit with their contact details on the letterhead that you can use

Just on this point, I gather that the admins decided that there was rather too much of a downside to this, so the thread has been tidied away and isn't available.

We'll probably need a new thread if we want to discuss this further as it won't be helpful to the OP here!

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for your reply. It was with Thameslink - how would I go about contacting them?

Here is an address that has been quoted in the past for e-mail

gtr.prosecutions@gtrailway.com

If you contact them at this stage there is no need to say anything other than:

'I was stopped and questioned regarding a ticketing matter at X location on Y date. Unfortunately I gave an incorrect address to the member of staff. I would like to correct that.
The address I gave was:
The correct address to contact me is:
I would be grateful if you could send any post to: (repeat the correct postal address) '

Or something along those lines.

Then when they write to you / reply to you, you can head here for advice on how to respond to whatever they send you.

 

[ce1999]

Here is an address that has been quoted in the past for e-mail

gtr.prosecutions@gtrailway.com

If you contact them at this stage there is no need to say anything other than:

'I was stopped and questioned regarding a ticketing matter at X location on Y date. Unfortunately I gave an incorrect address to the member of staff. I would like to correct that.
The address I gave was:
The correct address to contact me is:
I would be grateful if you could send any post to: (repeat the correct postal address) '

Or something along those lines.

Then when they write to you / reply to you, you can head here for advice on how to respond to whatever they send you.

This is so helpful thank you. I really hope I can rectify this issue without serious consequences. It’s the first time I’ve ever done anything like this and will not be doing it again in a hurry!

 

[WesternLancer]

This is so helpful thank you. I really hope I can rectify this issue without serious consequences. It’s the first time I’ve ever done anything like this and will not be doing it again in a hurry!

OK - head back here as and when you need advice as each step progresses, even if you just want to check what the best thing to do is as things go forward. Be sure to also check the other address if you can manage to do that just in case. Also check e-mail spam folders for communications.

 

[jumble]

Here is an address that has been quoted in the past for e-mail

gtr.prosecutions@gtrailway.com

If you contact them at this stage there is no need to say anything other than:

'I was stopped and questioned regarding a ticketing matter at X location on Y date. Unfortunately I gave an incorrect address to the member of staff. I would like to correct that.
The address I gave was:
The correct address to contact me is:
I would be grateful if you could send any post to: (repeat the correct postal address) '

Or something along those lines.

Then when they write to you / reply to you, you can head here for advice on how to respond to whatever they send you.

Why would the OP not just write and say " you wont be able to reach me on the address you have on file Please would you send all correspondence to this address"
Lets remember her late Majesty Never complain, and more important Never Explain

 

[WesternLancer]

Why would the OP not just write and say " you wont be able to reach me on the address you have on file Please would you send all correspondence to this address"
Lets remember her late Majesty Never complain, and more important Never Explain

because a little bit more info about when and where stopped might help them match the case given the OP gave false address and wrong DoB and does not have a case ref number to quote IIRC

If the OP wants to avoid court then the more info they give without incriminating themselves the better in my view, so the case is matched and the address corrected

 

[jumble]

because a little bit more info about when and where stopped might help them match the case given the OP gave false address and wrong DoB and does not have a case ref number to quote IIRC

If the OP wants to avoid court then the more info they give without incriminating themselves the better in my view, so the case is matched and the address corrected

Maybe if one assumes that the CRM is so badly designed that a user cannot locate a case by name and postcode in 60 seconds
I agree that admitting to where and when stopped is not telling the prosecution dept anything they probably don't already know
However my point is if the prosecution office then remain blissfully unaware that the OP deliberately gave a false address because the OP is not helpfully fessing up to the fact that they might have done so will this make a settlement and avoiding court more likely?
Who knows?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Maybe if one assumes that the CRM is so badly designed that a user cannot locate a case by name and postcode in 60 seconds

A postcode may be of limited use for identifying a false address - does the OP remember the postcode they gave? Does the railway's system accept anything as a postcode or does it require it to be valid? If so, is the postcode the OP gave going to be a valid one?

However my point is if the prosecution office then remain blissfully unaware that the OP deliberately gave a false address because the OP is not helpfully fessing up to the fact that they might have done so will this make a settlement and avoiding court more likely?
Who knows?

Indeed, we may not know the answer to this question. But if the case does proceed to prosecution and then conviction, a false address will not help the OP to know of their conviction - and in another thread we are seeing what can happen if the right address isn't known. It would be poor advice on our part to suggest concealing an address if there's a realistic chance that it will lead to bailiffs attending the real address and requiring a substantial payment in addition to the court-imposed fine.

 

[WesternLancer]

Maybe if one assumes that the CRM is so badly designed that a user cannot locate a case by name and postcode in 60 seconds
I agree that admitting to where and when stopped is not telling the prosecution dept anything they probably don't already know
However my point is if the prosecution office then remain blissfully unaware that the OP deliberately gave a false address because the OP is not helpfully fessing up to the fact that they might have done so will this make a settlement and avoiding court more likely?
Who knows?

It's a trade off.

a) We know that Thameslink regularly settles with people who co-operate with them

b) We know that people who do not respond to train companies have their cases taken to court automatically - get found guilty, end up with bailiffs seeking money for cases they didn't know about, have to spend much more time hassle and cost sorting this out

c) We can guess that many people give false addresses

So my opinion is that by correcting the false address given (option a) is a more likely and better plan than hoping some organisation that won't be that bothered either way might have a back office system that can find the OP. I believe that by making life easier for the train company is more likely to end up with a settlement than a prosecution (which in option b is almost if not defintly a certainty).

Hence my advice

 

[Skimpot flyer]

On thé issue of the postcode, it’s not commonly known that a postcode does not identify an individual address. Up to 25 residential properties can share the same postcode (This is why online retailers who ask you first for your postcode when setting up an online account, then ask you to select your specific address from a drop-down menu).

So if the OP gave the address of the person next door, chances are high that it will be the same postcode.

 

[SussexMan]

He took my real name, but a neighbours address and a fake DOB.

As a backup, I suggest you go and knock on your neighbour's door, introduce yourself and explain some post might inadvertently arrive and if it does could they let you know.

 

[jumble]

It's a trade off.

a) We know that Thameslink regularly settles with people who co-operate with them

b) We know that people who do not respond to train companies have their cases taken to court automatically - get found guilty, end up with bailiffs seeking money for cases they didn't know about, have to spend much more time hassle and cost sorting this out

c) We can guess that many people give false addresses

So my opinion is that by correcting the false address given (option a) is a more likely and better plan than hoping some organisation that won't be that bothered either way might have a back office system that can find the OP. I believe that by making life easier for the train company is more likely to end up with a settlement than a prosecution (which in option b is almost if not defintly a certainty).

Hence my advice

I am now off before the thread is locked
I agree with absolutely everything you say except that for clarity in my view it is better to truthfully be saying the address you have on file is incorrect and stating the incorrect address and you wont be able to reach me there and please write to me here as opposed to overtly admitting "I gave the RPI a false address"

If they then want a discussion as to why the address was incorrect which they might or might not do then the OP can address that in due course.
I can see the upside of my approach that the discussion and punishment for giving a false addresses may then not happen but i can seen no downside in my approach

 

[Egg Centric]

it’s not commonly known that a postcode does not identify an individual address

(Off topic, but I'd say this is extremely commonly known*)


*for the vast majority of postcodes anyway, a small number do infact identify an individual address

 

[ce1999]

I have received an ‘intention to prosecute’ letter after I contacted them to admit my correct address. I have to respond within 14 days with my version of events. I am happy to do this of course and admit my mistake and offer to pay any fines and settle out of court. I’m absolutely terrified of the outcome, as mentioned previously my mental health is in such a bad way and I have made such a stupid mistake. Does anyone have any advice?

 

[WesternLancer]

I have received an ‘intention to prosecute’ letter after I contacted them to admit my correct address. I have to respond within 14 days with my version of events. I am happy to do this of course and admit my mistake and offer to pay any fines and settle out of court. I’m absolutely terrified of the outcome, as mentioned previously my mental health is in such a bad way and I have made such a stupid mistake. Does anyone have any advice?

Have you had a look at other threads where the general format for responding to these sorts of letters is set out.

Have a look at one of those and do a draft of what you want to say and post it here for people to check. Keep it straightforward and you should be ok.

 

[Hadders]

I suggest a short, concise reply mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

I expect the train company will offer you an out of court settlement if you co-operate with them, unless you have come to their attention before.

If you post a copy of the letter you have received in this thread, along with your draft reply forum members will be happy to proof read it for you. Do redact any personal details and case reference numbers before uploadimg.

 

[ce1999]

Thank you. I have drafted a response please let me know if you think anything should be added or removed.

“On 5th of July I was asked to show my ticket to the inspector, I had a ticket but an invalid railcard. I panicked when asked and was dishonest by explaining I had left it at home. I immediately regretted this and continue to deeply regret my actions. This is very out of character for me to be dishonest, my mental health has been incredibly poor lately and I have acted out of character. I have felt nothing but guilt and anxiety ever since.

I must stress I take full responsibility for my actions and would never allow myself to get into this position again. I have most definitely learned a lesson.

I would grately appreciate if this matter could be dealt with without court action. I am willing to pay any fines or costs.”

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you. I have drafted a response please let me know if you think anything should be added or removed.

“On 5th of July I was asked to show my ticket to the inspector, I had a ticket but an invalid railcard. I panicked when asked and was dishonest by explaining I had left it at home. I immediately regretted this and continue to deeply regret my actions. This is very out of character for me to be dishonest, my mental health has been incredibly poor lately and I have acted out of character. I have felt nothing but guilt and anxiety ever since.

I must stress I take full responsibility for my actions and would never allow myself to get into this position again. I have most definitely learned a lesson.

I would grately appreciate if this matter could be dealt with without court action. I am willing to pay any fines or costs.”

Have you had a letter from them now?
or are you proactively contacting them with this draft?

If the former I would suggest changing your draft as below
If the latter I think I would still suggest just writing to them to inform them of your correct details and then wait to see if you get a letter

change the last line to something like this (just because the fine in this context is what the court would issue and you want to avoid court):

"I would greatly appreciate if this matter could be dealt with without court action. I am willing to pay any fares owed and costs involved in looking into this.”

 

[ce1999]

Have you had a letter from them now?
or are you proactively contacting them with this draft?

If the former I would suggest changing your draft as below
If the latter I think I would still suggest just writing to them to inform them of your correct details and then wait to see if you get a letter

change the last line to something like this (just because the fine in this context is what the court would issue and you want to avoid court):

"I would greatly appreciate if this matter could be dealt with without court action. I am willing to pay any fares owed and costs involved in looking into this.”

I have had the letter as I contacted them with my correct details. Thanks so much for your advice.