The "Red Oxford" or the green United Counties?

[WolvertonWorks]

Continuing from #12 in the thread about the effect of buses on East West Rail and the 131 Bedford-Stony Stratford-Bicester-Oxford route:

In the early 1960s we older primary school children would catch the bus at lunchtime from Market Hill in Newport Pagnell to the stop outside St Luke's church in Newport Pagnell, cost 1.5 old pence for a child and 2 pence IIRC for an adult, so we could go home to eat our mid-day meal. We would then walk back to school after lunch.

At some times of day the bus on that route was green, the United Counties one, or red, known as the "the red oxford" - did both have the same service number? Or did the United Counties only run as far as Stony Stratford (or maybe Deanshanger) and it was only the red one that ran to Oxford?

Thanks for the bus service history - makes interesting reading.

service 131 (Bedford-Stony Stratford-Bicester-Oxford).

Ah the 131, I remember it well - and this is going to go off topic, sorry, so I'll start another thread.

 

[RT4038]

Continuing from #12 in the thread about the effect of buses on East West Rail and the 131 Bedford-Stony Stratford-Bicester-Oxford route:

In the early 1960s we older primary school children would catch the bus at lunchtime from Market Hill in Newport Pagnell to the stop outside St Luke's church in Newport Pagnell, cost 1.5 old pence for a child and 2 pence IIRC for an adult, so we could go home to eat our mid-day meal. We would then walk back to school after lunch.

At some times of day the bus on that route was green, the United Counties one, or red, known as the "the red oxford" - did both have the same service number? Or did the United Counties only run as far as Stony Stratford (or maybe Deanshanger) and it was only the red one that ran to Oxford?

The route has an interesting history, I think being run by an independent until during the war or just after (it was a bit complicated, and I can give you the history if you're interested). Suffice at this stage to say that by 1952 it was a joint operation between United Counties and the City of Oxford Motor Services. Originally COMS numbered their journeys 70, and UCOC 131. The 07h20 & 14h20 from Bedford were UCOC (green) buses and 11h20 & 18h15 were COMS (red) buses. COMS worked their service from Bicester Depot, and UCOC from Bedford. (On Sundays only the pm journeys ran). At Bedford, who worked a six day rota week up to the early 80s, an Oxford and back was a day's work. A nice duty, but the conductor took a good bit of revenue . In those days the 18h00 out of Oxford was a full standing load at least to Garden City (Kidlington), and a good load onward to Bicester. Meal break (paid as away from home depot) taken in Oxford. Bicester crews took their meal break in Bedford.

COMS renumbered their Service 131 probably in 1968 when the rail replacement 121 started. COMS went One Man Operated in 1972 or thereabouts, whereas UCOC remained crew operated (with Lodekkas) until late 1975 (apparently being the last crew operated service in the entirety of Oxfordshire.) An interesting side working was that in the afternoon peak the Oxford bus laying over in Bedford for the meal break was used every weekday by a UCOC crew on a relief trip on a town service (this ceased on One Man conversion).

When Milton Keynes Shopping Centre opened (1978?) the service was diverted from Newport to Buckingham via CMK and Bletchley.(One Man operated by then of course).

Oh for such a comfortable ride nowadays! In the early seventies just about not a roundabout, speed hump, speed table, chicane, by pass to turn in and out of, many fewer parked vehicles; just the thrum of the Bristol BVW and a pretty straightforward with stops journey and no messing about with the driver taking fares. During the day there would be enough time for the crew and any through passengers to get a quick cuppa at Stony Stratford bus station cafe (where is that now??).

It is quite hard to think now what that kind of bus travel was like, and how it was often preferred over trains for journeys, particularly where the stations were far out of the town centre. Completely changed dynamics now.

 

[Class45]

When I was a child in the 1960s my family would regularly take the United Counties 61 bus from Luton to Aylesbury. The red, black and duck egg green livery of the City of Oxford buses I saw there was so much more impressive than the bland Tilling green livery of United Counties.

 

[Teds]

I used the 131 infrequently around 1972 when the Oxford contribution was almost always 903 OFC903H a Bristol VR, one of three transferred from a Southern Vectis order. This was based at Bicester and worked a local service to Oxford before two round trips to Bedford and an evening suburban service in Oxford before returning to Bicester. The bus then was in the simplified Oxford livery of red and green. Occasionally the Oxford bus would not make it back from Bedford and United Counties would lend one of their vehicles which would appear on the suburban service in Oxford.

 

[WolvertonWorks]

Thank you RT4038 for the information and a nostalgic walk down memory lane for me - it would have been the 11:20 ex Bedford that got to Newport just after we were let out of school for lunch and which we caught.

From September 1968 to December 1969 I lived at Harwell and then in Abingdon. I could come home to Newport Pagnell for the weekend after work on a Friday, I'm assuming taking the 18:00 from Gloucester Green but can't remember what time I used to have to catch the bus back to Oxford on Sunday.

During the day there would be enough time for the crew and any through passengers to get a quick cuppa at Stony Stratford bus station cafe (where is that now??). Houses on the bus station site and just a shelter on either side of the road for the for less frequent services that pass through Stony nowadays.

MK shopping centre was officially opened 25th September 1979 by Maggie Thatcher - there is a plaque on the ground in front of the entrance to John Lewis commemorating this. As you say, routes got changed to accommodate the newly developing Milton Keynes and Newport in particular has lost its direct busses to Wolverton and Stony, Bedford, Oxford, Northampton and Bletchley as a result - everywhere needs a trip into central MK and a change nowadays which is probably why people drive and don't use the bus

Thanks again for the information.

 

[MedwayValiant]

Newport Pagnell does still have a direct bus to Bedford in the shape of the Uno C10, although it only operates Monday to Friday.

 

[A0]

Thank you RT4038 for the information and a nostalgic walk down memory lane for me - it would have been the 11:20 ex Bedford that got to Newport just after we were let out of school for lunch and which we caught.

From September 1968 to December 1969 I lived at Harwell and then in Abingdon. I could come home to Newport Pagnell for the weekend after work on a Friday, I'm assuming taking the 18:00 from Gloucester Green but can't remember what time I used to have to catch the bus back to Oxford on Sunday.

During the day there would be enough time for the crew and any through passengers to get a quick cuppa at Stony Stratford bus station cafe (where is that now??). Houses on the bus station site and just a shelter on either side of the road for the for less frequent services that pass through Stony nowadays.

MK shopping centre was officially opened 25th September 1979 by Maggie Thatcher - there is a plaque on the ground in front of the entrance to John Lewis commemorating this. As you say, routes got changed to accommodate the newly developing Milton Keynes and Newport in particular has lost its direct busses to Wolverton and Stony, Bedford, Oxford, Northampton and Bletchley as a result - everywhere needs a trip into central MK and a change nowadays which is probably why people drive and don't use the bus

Thanks again for the information.

The problem with a service to Northampton is neither route has much traffic on it. Running via Olney and the A428 would mean competing with the 41 between Olney and Northampton and that route has been under threat. The alternative is along the B526 through Stoke Goldington and Stagecoach tried extending one of their services to Horton, Stoke Goldington and Newport Pagnell in the mid / late 2010s but it basically ran empty through countryside so didn't last long.

 

[RT4038]

The problem with a service to Northampton is neither route has much traffic on it. Running via Olney and the A428 would mean competing with the 41 between Olney and Northampton and that route has been under threat. The alternative is along the B526 through Stoke Goldington and Stagecoach tried extending one of their services to Horton, Stoke Goldington and Newport Pagnell in the mid / late 2010s but it basically ran empty through countryside so didn't last long.

In the long distant past, there were three bus services from Newport P. to Northampton - Wesley's Coaches ran via Stoke Goldington, as did an infrequent United Counties no. 324. Each company did three journeys, with a more frequent service by Wesley's on We. & Sa., Northampton market day. Alternatively United Counties 129 ran via Olney and Yardley Hastings with 4 through trips each day, and two extra on Sa. Only Wesley's provided a morning 'peak' journey into Northampton.

In those days, the predecessor of the 41 was the 128, which did not run via Olney [or Stagsden, or Bromham Village, or Biddenham, but did serve Yardley (Square)] taking 67, later 59 minutes with a Bristol Lodekka, instead of the whopping 90 minutes of today with much faster buses. This service ran about every two hours, with the 129 providing the alternate hour between Northampton and Yardley, many trips turning short at Olney Extra buses at peaks and on Saturdays.

Hardly surprising the 41 is constantly under threat, which such an awful journey for through passengers!