ScotRail cancelling services July 2024

[Jan Mayen]

Didn't South West Trains solve a short term driver shortage problem by offering an extra £1,000 a week or some such? This was in the early days of privatisation.

 

[GordonT]

Didn't South West Trains solve a short term driver shortage problem by offering an extra £1,000 a week or some such? This was in the early days of privatisation.

Not sure about SWT but I think some bus companies in bygone days offered a "Golden Hello" inducement possibly a one-off payment of £1K to drivers who transferred to them as part of "clearing the streets" of a competitor they wanted to be rid of.

 

[allancmcd]

Tomorrow's timetable is decimated in the central belt.

Scotrail have just posted details and the explanation that it's staff not doing rest day working following submission of the most recent pay claim:

Tomorrow (Sunday, 7 July), ScotRail services across Scotland will be disrupted and we're implementing a number of service alterations as a result.

 

[Scotrail84]

Scotrail have just posted details and the explanation that it's staff not doing rest day working following submission of the most recent pay claim:

Tomorrow (Sunday, 7 July), ScotRail services across Scotland will be disrupted and we're implementing a number of service alterations as a result.

Sundays are not rest day working as such as they are not classed as rest days, they are OT outwith the working week, there will be staff who have 'booked' Sundays and there will turns not covered due to vacancies, holidays or sickness.

 

[najaB]

Sundays are not rest day working as such as they are not classed as rest days, they are OT outwith the working week, there will be staff who have 'booked' Sundays and there will turns not covered due to vacancies, holidays or sickness.

To be fair, in the Twitter thread they describe it as "fewer train drivers than normal have been available for overtime or rest day working".

 

[Ediswan]

Explain how, with our progressive tax system, someone can end up worse off for working extra hours?

It happened to some senior NHS doctors. Doing overtime would leave them worse off. Something to do with a complicated pension scheme.

 

[kkong]

Not worse off but if you're working 8 rest days a month you end up working for about £50 a day if you do that.

I find that very difficult to believe, unless your hourly wage is at or close to the minimum wage.

The most tax you can be paying is:

• 42% Income Tax (Scottish higher rate on earnings over £43,663 per year), plus
• 2% Employee NI (on earnings over £4,189 per month)

You may pay more in a particular month if you do a lot of overtime, but this will be automatically corrected over the remainder of the tax year.

 

[najaB]

It happened to some senior NHS doctors. Doing overtime would leave them worse off. Something to do with a complicated pension scheme.

That's probably a very specific scenario, and given that pensions were involved it may be that it had the potential to make them worse off in the future. Any chance you can remember more details about it so I can look it up? All I've found so far is that overtime over a certain amount wasn't pensionable, but nothing that suggests that either their take-home pay or total pension would actually decrease if they worked more hours.

 

[Peter0124]

I thought the Scotrail problems had long gone after 2022

 

[John Bishop]

I thought the Scotrail problems had long gone after 2022

They were until the company offered a derisory offer on Friday and in previous meetings.

 

[Carntyne]

One in ten are cancelled? Not ideal.

266 cancelled so far!

 

[JamesT]

That's probably a very specific scenario, and given that pensions were involved it may be that it had the potential to make them worse off in the future. Any chance you can remember more details about it so I can look it up? All I've found so far is that overtime over a certain amount wasn't pensionable, but nothing that suggests that either their take-home pay or total pension would actually decrease if they worked more hours.

It was the pension yearly/lifetime allowance. If you went over, there was a 55% tax.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8626/ has a fuller explanation.

 

[najaB]

It was the pension yearly/lifetime allowance. If you went over, there was a 55% tax.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8626/ has a fuller explanation.

I am probably reading this wrong, but it doesn't seem that the doctors would have had less money in their pockets as a result of doing the overtime, but rather that the they would lose pension relief on the additional amount taken as a lump sum in excess of the lifetime allowance.

And the 55% tax only applied on the amount in excess, so they would still get more in their pension, just less than they would have got had the limit not existed.

 

[ld0595]

I find that very difficult to believe, unless your hourly wage is at or close to the minimum wage.

The most tax you can be paying is:

• 42% Income Tax (Scottish higher rate on earnings over £43,663 per year), plus
• 2% Employee NI (on earnings over £4,189 per month)

You may pay more in a particular month if you do a lot of overtime, but this will be automatically corrected over the remainder of the tax year.

Be mindful of marginal rates though, which in Scotland is 50% for income between £43,663 and £50,270 thanks to where thresholds kick in. (42% income tax plus 8% National Insurance, plus an additional 9% if you've got a student loan.) I'm approaching that threshold (not in the rail industry) but have no desire to do any overtime if I'm losing so much of my wage.

Keeping on topic though, Scotrail have published a page for those who don't have Twitter: https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-sc...ge-latest-news-media-release/scotrail-service. They are expecting 75% of services to run. Lets hope for everyone's sake that this gets resolved soon.

 

[najaB]

Be mindful of marginal rates though, which in Scotland is 50% for income between £43,663 and £50,270 thanks to where thresholds kick in.

That's true, but if you're getting £50 for a day's work, even with a 50% effective tax rate, and assuming an 8-hour day, that's only £12.50 an hour, or just about a pound over minimum wage.

 

[ld0595]

That's true, but if you're getting £50 for a day's work, even with a 50% effective tax rate, and assuming an 8-hour day, that's only £12.50 an hour, or just about a pound over minimum wage.

Very true, it's not quite £50. I worked out for myself I'd get a take home of about £70 which isn't worth losing a day over though (happy to be corrected if I'm wrong!)

Might be worth it for some though, everyone is different!

 

[najaB]

Very true, it's not quite £50. I worked out for myself I'd get a take home of about £70 which isn't worth losing a day over though (happy to be corrected if I'm wrong!)

Which is fair enough. Everyone values their time differently.

 

[The Puddock]

Be mindful of marginal rates though, which in Scotland is 50% for income between £43,663 and £50,270 thanks to where thresholds kick in. (42% income tax plus 8% National Insurance)

I fall into this 50% marginal trap as a high rate Scottish taxpayer earning just above the threshold and as a result I now choose to limit myself to two working rest days or one Sunday per four week pay period, otherwise the deductions on my payslip are absolutely eye-watering. It’s simply not worth giving up my time for.

 

[Scotrail84]

I fall into this 50% marginal trap as a high rate Scottish taxpayer earning just above the threshold and as a result I now choose to limit myself to two working rest days or one Sunday per four week pay period, otherwise the deductions on my payslip are absolutely eye-watering. It’s simply not worth giving up my time for.

Thats the point I was trying to make, too much overtime just isn't worth it and you end up knocking your pan in to open your wage slip to mega deductions.

 

[Aaron_TTL]

The worst part about this disruption is I got a notification of the cancellation at 9pm last night, very short notice considering my train was 7am today, no Dundee to Edinburgh trains till 11:30

 

[Scotrail84]

The worst part about this disruption is I got a notification of the cancellation at 9pm last night, very short notice considering my train was 7am today, no Dundee to Edinburgh trains till 11:30

10 hours notice is not short notice with the railway, I'd say that was pretty good considering. Thats much better than turning up to the station for it to be caped at the last minute.

**According to RTT the 07:36 Dundee to Edinburgh ran this morning under a VST.

Realtime Trains | 2L56 0736 Dundee to Edinburgh | 07/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 2L56 0736 departure from Dundee to Edinburgh on 07/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Peter0124]

10 hours notice is not short notice with the railway, I'd say that was pretty good considering. Thats much better than turning up to the station for it to be caped at the last minute.

**According to RTT the 07:36 Dundee to Edinburgh ran this morning under a VST.

Realtime Trains | 2L56 0736 Dundee to Edinburgh | 07/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 2L56 0736 departure from Dundee to Edinburgh on 07/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I think its still fairly short notice considering it was sent at 9pm that evening, not long before they probably head to bed.

 

[EnchantGaming]

The timetable in the Central Belt today is destroyed.

9 Edinburgh - Leven services are cancelled. Which on a Sunday basically means pretty much half of the service on the Fife Circle isn’t running, and even then most of the services which are running don’t even have units assigned to the diagrams according to RealTimeTrains.

4 Glenrothes services are cancelled and 6 Shotts line services are cancelled.

17 Borders Railway services are cancelled, basically meaning almost no service on that route.

22 Helensburgh - Edinburgh services are cancelled.

15 Edinburgh - Dunblane services are cancelled.


Although some services may run still run as VST, it’s probably not likely.


The buses are gonna be very busy today…

 

[John Bishop]

The timetable in the Central Belt today is destroyed.

9 Edinburgh - Leven services are cancelled. Which on a Sunday basically means pretty much half of the service on the Fife Circle isn’t running, and even then most of the services which are running don’t even have units assigned to the diagrams according to RealTimeTrains.

4 Glenrothes services are cancelled and 6 Shotts line services are cancelled.

17 Borders Railway services are cancelled, basically meaning almost no service on that route.

22 Helensburgh - Edinburgh services are cancelled.

15 Edinburgh - Dunblane services are cancelled.


Although some services may run still run as VST, it’s probably not likely.


The buses are gonna be very busy today…

Major disruption for the foreseeable future on a daily basis now that theres an overtime ban in place. This will just highlight how reliant the railway is on overtime. If the SG has any sense (I know, I know) then they’d get back round the negotiating table asap and produce a meaningful offer otherwise it’s going to be carnage for the summer!

 

[Blindtraveler]

And as a side benefit highlight just how incompetent nationalised SNP rail are at dealing with disrupt. Or at least that's been the case in the last few years. But hopefully I'm proved wrong

 

[Peter0124]

I find it ironic that there's a more frequent rail replacement bus service from Newton, than actual trains today.
1tph to Glasgow (down from 3tph due to the staffing issues) and 2 buses an hour to Mount Florida cause of engineering work.

Clearly the bus drivers aren't on strike!

 

[InkyScrolls]

Clearly the bus drivers aren't on strike!

Neither are the train drivers.

 

[Scotrail84]

I think its still fairly short notice considering it was sent at 9pm that evening, not long before they probably head to bed.

Sometimes companies just can't win eh.

 

[Fife coaster]

Agree we’re are over taxed in Scotland there is no incentive to work more hours if it takes you over the threshold this needs to be realigned with the rest of the UK. This rubbish about Scotland being less taxed than everywhere else is rubbish. And all TOCs need to employ more staff this is a toxic culture they should be No need to make people work their rest days due to not employing enough staff. This has been going on for years their is no excuse scotrail is not a private TOC.

 

[Scotrail84]

Agree we’re are over taxed in Scotland there is no incentive to work more hours if it takes you over the threshold this needs to be realigned with the rest of the UK. This rubbish about Scotland being less taxed than everywhere else is rubbish. And all TOCs need to employ more staff this is a toxic culture they should be No need to make people work their rest days due to not employing enough staff. This has been going on for years their is no excuse scotrail is not a private TOC.

Normally staff will work rest days no bother at all but a combination of summer time, school holidays, the Euros being on and of course the paltry pay over has meant that staff are now only working booked shifts and hours. If the Scots gov had sat down and thought about it logically there would have been no dispute looming. They will never learn from pervious errors. ASLEF and the RMT are two of the most powerful unions in the UK and its madness to antagonise them with derisory offers.