London Buses Discussion

[Goldfish62]

Non TfL routes need a London Service Permit to run in London (like a bus service registration, only different). The application costs £500 for five years, and as part of that, TfL "should" maintain bus stop timetables to their own standard.
However, as they cannot maintain timetables for their own routes, they fail miserably on this for other routes.
When Metroline still ran the 84 route, they resorted to posting their own new timetables across the TfL versions .... it took several months to get it sorted.
GoCoach in Orpington have been running a service to Sevenoaks for about 12 months now .... no sign of anything on London stops along the route. Appalling ....

It's always been poor and a source of considerable embarrassment for those of us involved in the past. And that was before things really deteriorated.

I defend TfL against a lot of uninformed and misplaced criticism, but on the state of roadside infrastructure and publicity it's an utter disgrace. I should add, however, that there are still some very dedicated people at TfL who are as appalled as us, but they're fighting a losing battle against lack of resources and lack of interest from the senior echelons.

Rant over.

 

[SWT_USER]

It's always been poor and a source of considerable embarrassment for those of us involved in the past. And that was before things really deteriorated.

I defend TfL against a lot of uninformed and misplaced criticism, but on the state of roadside infrastructure and publicity it's an utter disgrace. I should add, however, that there are still some very dedicated people at TfL who are as appalled as us, but they're fighting a losing battle against lack of resources and lack of interest from the senior echelons.

Rant over.

I've written to TFL anyway - we'll see if anything comes of it.

It's frustrating as it's a genuinely useful route for me to connect to the Elizabeth line at T4 and I had no idea of its existence until I happened to pass a bus while I was driving. I'd have known about it much earlier if the information appeared on the bus stop.

 

[renegademaster]

Has Abellio got a fleet or driver shortages at the moment? 20 minute gaps between 407s atm

 

[Goldfish62]

Has Abellio got a fleet or driver shortages at the moment? 20 minute gaps between 407s atm

Looking at Bustimes everything is running, but some bunching causing gaps.

 

[greenline712]

Looking at Bustimes everything is running, but some bunching causing gaps.

It is normally a 12 minute frequency, so Friday afternoon traffic, I expect.

 

[H&I]

It's always been poor and a source of considerable embarrassment for those of us involved in the past. And that was before things really deteriorated.

I defend TfL against a lot of uninformed and misplaced criticism, but on the state of roadside infrastructure and publicity it's an utter disgrace. I should add, however, that there are still some very dedicated people at TfL who are as appalled as us, but they're fighting a losing battle against lack of resources and lack of interest from the senior echelons.

Rant over.

I often report problems with bus stops to TfL using the Street Care website. Perhaps reporting the missing timetables could resolve the situation.

 

[Busaholic]

With a new Labour government aligning with a Labour mayor, not only should better settlements occur in due course, but (hopefully) not quite so much short-termism. The Bakerloo extension should be the first major recipient of the 'new deal.'

 

[Goldfish62]

With a new Labour government aligning with a Labour mayor, not only should better settlements occur in due course, but (hopefully) not quite so much short-termism. The Bakerloo extension should be the first major recipient of the 'new deal.'

Agreed.

Hopefully some commonsense quick decisions in the interests of the network and users that actually save money in the long run compared the interminable delays resulting from political posturing.

 

[Mikey C]

With a new Labour government aligning with a Labour mayor, not only should better settlements occur in due course, but (hopefully) not quite so much short-termism. The Bakerloo extension should be the first major recipient of the 'new deal.'

There's no pile of money to spend, transport improvements will be well down the queue.

 

[Busaholic]

There's no pile of money to spend, transport improvements will be well down the queue.

My post made no claims that there piles of money itching to be spent. Any capital city in the first world will have programmes of transport improvement, London being no exception even after so many years of incompetent government, and I am merely suggesting that the number one priority be taken off the back burner on which it has been simmering (or festering) for so long, gets dusted off and fast forwarded for immediate action to start, or restart.

 

[Goldfish62]

There's no pile of money to spend, transport improvements will be well down the queue.

There's much transport investment that's needed and isn't going to go away however lacking the pile of money may be. Replacement Bakerloo line stock and resignalling the Piccadilly Line being two such examples.

The point is that authorising spend sooner rather delaying for reasons of political posturing is almost always more economical.

 

[SWT_USER]

I've written to TFL anyway - we'll see if anything comes of it.

It's frustrating as it's a genuinely useful route for me to connect to the Elizabeth line at T4 and I had no idea of its existence until I happened to pass a bus while I was driving. I'd have known about it much earlier if the information appeared on the bus stop.

For anyone interested TFL responded to me today saying basically not our route, not our problem, contact the operator. I'm surprised TFL want other operators messing around with their bus stops.

Unfortunately, this is not a TfL service so it is out of our mandate. The best option is to contact the bus operator via this website:

https://www.rome2rio.com/s/Hatton-Cross-Underground-Station/Woking-Station

 

[Goldfish62]

For anyone interested TFL responded to me today saying basically not our route, not our problem, contact the operator. I'm surprised TFL want other operators messing around with their bus stops.

They don't (apart from a long-standing agreement with Big Bus and TOOTBus for certain central London stops).

Absolute rubbish response from TfL Customer Services. I refer to my post #3091.

 

[SWT_USER]

They don't (apart from a long-standing agreement with Big Bus and TOOTBus for certain central London stops).

Absolute rubbish response from TfL Customer Services. I refer to my post #3091.

I've gone back to challenge their response. I don't think anything will change but might as well give it a go. It might get a few more north Surrey residents on to public transport.

 

[Busaholic]

For anyone interested TFL responded to me today saying basically not our route, not our problem

Right on the first, wrong on the second. Once it's been pointed out to them, it undoubtedly becomes their problem.

(From the guy who spent six months as the person at HQ responsible for West London bus stops fifty years ago!)

 

[Deerfold]

I've gone back to challenge their response. I don't think anything will change but might as well give it a go. It might get a few more north Surrey residents on to public transport.

Unfortunately, Customer Services at TfL has long been dreadful. When I worked there I'd sometimes get queries from Customer Services from people who'd asked questions and asked again after hearing from Customer Services. They'd forward the original reply to me. They were often dreadfully written, and usually wrong. I had to draft a reply for them to use, without pointing out the original answer had been incorrect. I dread to think how they'd mangle my drafts.

 

[Edvid]

Current milestone for ieTram passenger operation on the 358 is sometime this summer (essentially late September or earlier), per Khan's latest MQT response.

The all-electric Route 358 i.e.Tram buses are expected to start operating in Summer 2024. They will be Transport for London’s (TfL) first end to end ‘Opportunity Charging’ trial, and it is important to get the hardware installed properly before the buses are introduced. The electric buses will use pantograph technology for a quick boost charge at either end of the route, allowing the buses to stay out for the full day. The new buses, which resemble a tram, will have enhanced customer features and the latest bus safety specifications.

 

[Goldfish62]

Current milestone for ieTram passenger operation on the 358 is sometime this summer (essentially late September or earlier), per Khan's latest MQT response.

At this rate the Fastrack ones will enter service first.

 

[Sunil_P]

It's a bus, NOT a tram

 

[Goldfish62]

It's a bus, NOT a tram

Indeed. It doesn't even resemble a tram. It most closely resembles a scaled-down Irizar coach, completely unsurprisingly.

 

[joieman]

Indeed. It doesn't even resemble a tram. It most closely resembles a scaled-down Irizar coach, completely unsurprisingly.

Just with covered up wheels to make it look like a tram.

 

[Deerfold]

It's a bus, NOT a tram

Who said it was a tram?

 

[Goldfish62]

Who said it was a tram?

TfL doesn't help by saying it has tram-like features (it doesn't).

It generally seems to be some enthusiasts who are fixated about the name.

I has the good fortune to be invited along to a demo run a while back. When it was parked at Crystal Palace bus station the bus got a lot of positive comments from the public, with many saying it looked like a coach rather than a bus. Absolutely no one said it looked like a tram!

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Just with covered up wheels to make it look like a tram.

And the wheel covers are far from unique (and optimal in any case).

 

[SWT_USER]

They don't (apart from a long-standing agreement with Big Bus and TOOTBus for certain central London stops).

Absolute rubbish response from TfL Customer Services. I refer to my post #3091.

Right on the first, wrong on the second. Once it's been pointed out to them, it undoubtedly becomes their problem.

(From the guy who spent six months as the person at HQ responsible for West London bus stops fifty years ago!)

Unfortunately, Customer Services at TfL has long been dreadful. When I worked there I'd sometimes get queries from Customer Services from people who'd asked questions and asked again after hearing from Customer Services. They'd forward the original reply to me. They were often dreadfully written, and usually wrong. I had to draft a reply for them to use, without pointing out the original answer had been incorrect. I dread to think how they'd mangle my drafts.

Even after challenging them they are still adamant it's not their problem.

Thank you for contacting us and I can confirm for this route our manager has highlighted that White Bus and their partners would be responsible for this.

I tried!

 

[MotCO]

And the wheel covers are far from unique (and optimal in any case).

And how long will they stay on???

 

[Goldfish62]

And how long will they stay on???

Why do you say that? The ieTrams in other countries still have them after several years service, as do the Van Hool EquiCities in Belfast and Malmö, among others.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2024 ==

Even after challenging them they are still adamant it's not their problem.

Thank you for contacting us and I can confirm for this route our manager has highlighted that White Bus and their partners would be responsible for this.

I tried!

I am sat here shaking my head in despair.

Let me try to get this sorted through my contacts. Customer Services are a lost cause.

 

[SWT_USER]

Why do you say that? The ieTrams in other countries still have them after several years service, as do the Van Hool EquiCities in Belfast and Malmö, among others.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2024 ==


I am sat here shaking my head in despair.

Let me try to get this sorted through my contacts. Customer Services are a lost cause.

Thank you. I suspect this is pretty widespread with these cross border routes but no other passengers really know or care enough to do anything about it.

 

[MotCO]

Why do you say that? The ieTrams in other countries still have them after several years service, as do the Van Hool EquiCities in Belfast and Malmö, among others.

I'm thinking back to the days when wheel discs were fitted, which after a while, fell into disuse due to the faff of replacing them everytime the wheels were taken off.

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm thinking back to the days when wheel discs were fitted, which after a while, fell into disuse due to the faff of replacing them everytime the wheels were taken off.

Well, we'll clearly have to see.

 

[riceuten]

There's no pile of money to spend, transport improvements will be well down the queue.

I think the difference will be that there is no needless antagonism between TfL/the Mayor and central government, that played well with the outer London//cab drivers/car driving voters. I don't think even the most fervent supporters of the new government imagine there will be mythical magic money tree or immediate improvements.