Delayed carrying heavy equipment?

[Chrius56000]

Occasionally I buy heavy items of electronic equipment weighing 10–15 kg from eBay sellers who insist on "collection only" because they don't want to be bothered with post and packing, etc., and in many cases the seller will bring the purchase I made to the local station nearest to where they live, but occasionally some insist they can't and I end up having to use local buses/or walk some considerable distance to/from the station to collect the item from the seller's house!

. . As a result of gout/arthritis it often takes me a lot longer to collect the item and get back to the station I arrived at, and may end up getting one, or even two later trains back that was calculated by an online Journey Planner!

. . .Can anyone give me advice on planning these trips so I don't get "done" by an unfriendly train conductor for getting a later train back from the local station at the eBay seller's town than was planned by the Journey Planner please?

. . .(The simplest answer obviously is to buy an "Anytime" return but for somewhere in the S.E., the fare is well into three figures and I can't afford that, so I have to get a cheap/split ticket that may be restricted in some way!)

The Outward journey isn't usually a problem as I'm not usually carrying anything other than light refreshments, etc., and can usually make the planned train(s) no problem!

. . .(Pieces of electronic equipment that come up for sale at prices I can afford are frequently in the South of England involving a cross–London journey! – I live in Walsall!)

Chris Williams

 

[AlbertBeale]

You don't have to buy what the journey planner suggests, do you!

If you can't afford something like an off-peak return (rather cheaper than an Anytime), but can only afford an Advance ticket for a fixed train each way, then you have to accept the restrictions that go with that - ie each ticket is only valid on the train it says. So if you're worried about missing a train, simply buy an Advance ticket for a later one. If you are quick after all, and have to spend an hour or two extra sitting in a station cafe until it's time for your train back, so be it.

Note there are Super Off-Peak Walsall-London returns (via the slow route on the Chiltern Line) for £38. The same route and ticket, continuing across London and to, say Portsmouth, is £71. So some of your trips ought to be possible without paying a 3-figure price, even with a fairly flexible ticket; though they might well be slow, long days.

If you keep on getting Advances which you sometimes use on a later train, then one day you'll get caught, and prosecuted for travelling without a ticket (the result of which will certainly be a 3-figure sum!). An "Advance" has no validity other than on the train it's booked for.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

. .Can anyone give me advice on planning these trips so I don't get "done" by an unfriendly train conductor for getting a later train back from the local station at the eBay seller's town than was planned by the Journey Planner please?

If you’re wanting a choice of trains, then the only options are an open ticket or buying multiple advances, of which you only use one, and throw the others away.

If you’re happy to book a fixed train but want longer connections where you change, I believe that the site’s own ticket vendor (linked at the top of the page) will let you extend the connection time used When buying tickets.

 

[Watershed]

You don't have to buy what the journey planner suggests, do you!

If you can't afford something like an off-peak return (rather cheaper than an Anytime), but can only afford an Advance ticket for a fixed train each way, then you have to accept the restrictions that go with that - ie each ticket is only valid on the train it says. So if you're worried about missing a train, simply buy an Advance ticket for a later one. If you are quick after all, and have to spend an hour or two extra sitting in a station cafe until it's time for your train back, so be it.

Note there are Super Off-Peak Walsall-London returns (via the slow route on the Chiltern Line) for £38. The same route and ticket, continuing across London and to, say Portsmouth, is £71. So some of your trips ought to be possible without paying a 3-figure price, even with a fairly flexible ticket; though they might well be slow, long days.

If you keep on getting Advances which you sometimes use on a later train, then one day you'll get caught, and prosecuted for travelling without a ticket (the result of which will certainly be a 3-figure sum!). An "Advance" has no validity other than on the train it's booked for.

Also worth noting that if you do buy an Advance ticket, you can still change it to a different train on payment of the difference in fare plus an admin fee of up to £10, provided you make this change before the original train is booked to depart. This is known as an Advance 'change of journey' (CoJ).

Some websites (such as the forum's site) process Advance CoJs by asking you to buy the new ticket first, and then request a refund on the original booking - but again, the refund must be requested before the original train departs.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

The other thing to note is you need to be careful/mindful what it is that you're actually buying and taking on board the train, especially if it's bulky/has significant weight.

If the item exceeds the entitlement in the conditions of travel, or you otherwise look to be struggling with said item, I wouldn't be surprised to be refused travel, with no refund, even if you've successfully travelled with something similar before.

Obviously we don't know what it is that you are buying/selling - electronic equipment could mean anything!

 

[Chrius56000]

The other thing to note is you need to be careful/mindful what it is that you're actually buying and taking on board the train, especially if it's bulky/has significant weight.

If the item exceeds the entitlement in the conditions of travel, or you otherwise look to be struggling with said item, I wouldn't be surprised to be refused travel, with no refund, even if you've successfully travelled with something similar before.

Obviously we don't know what it is that you are buying/selling - electronic equipment could mean anything!

. . .I have to confess I've never seen it actually quoted what the actual weight or dimensions of passengers' luggage maximum must not exceed, but I would have thought you ought to be allowed the airline maximum of 22 kg with the dimensions of an airline approved luggage carrier, and the items I bring back are (typically!) oscilloscopes which weigh 10–15 kg and have a carrying handle, and can easily be placed on end–of–carriage luggage racks without inconveniencing any other passengers!

. . .(I have actually had train conductors wait at a table if I have had to place the item in a table because luggage racks are full and then get up to use a toilet, but they simply wanted to make sure it wasn't simply left unattended on a train without a passenger being present to account for it!)



Chris Williams

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The other thing to note is you need to be careful/mindful what it is that you're actually buying and taking on board the train, especially if it's bulky/has significant weight.

. . .I have to confess I've never seen it actually quoted what the actual weight or dimensions of passengers' luggage maximum must not exceed...

The max dimensions, applying to "furniture" items, are, I believe, 30cm x 70cm x 90cm. Which isn't all that big!

 

[Chrius56000]

. . .As well as Chiltern there are often substantial savings to be made by using LNWR stopping EMUs between Birmingham and London and I also take advantage of the Senior Railcard discount (I'm 63!) – I think the most I've had to pay, going via LNWR, is about £45 return from Walsall to Syon Lane and then discovered afterwards that I needn't have spent £9.75 on a Waterloo–Syon Lane return because the Birmingham–London ticket is coded for a "Z1256" Travelcard and Syon Lane is in Zone 4!

. . .(The only downside to travelling via LNWR is the enormous size of Euston's concourse and the aggro, reported in other threads, about boarding trains there!)

. . .Can you book assistance with carrying bulky items if you have mobility difficulties, as I do?

Chris Williams

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

TfL have actually started prosecutions for excessive luggage - there was a post on Twitter recently where an incident had occurred at Tottenham Court Road, chap refused travel with bulky item on safety grounds and was told to leave - but returned regardless. Prosecuted for failing to follow safety instructions.

Lumo (not that you'll be using them) out of King's Cross, Newcastle and Edinburgh also have staff dedicated to "assisting" with luggage compliance - and have the strictest policy of all TOCs - mainly because of a safety incident they had were the cause of most injuries was luggage.

 

[Chrius56000]

The max dimensions, applying to "furniture" items, are, I believe, 30cm x 70cm x 90cm. Which isn't all that big!

TfL have actually started prosecutions for excessive luggage - there was a post on Twitter recently where an incident had occurred at Tottenham Court Road, chap refused travel with bulky item on safety grounds and was told to leave - but returned regardless. Prosecuted for failing to follow safety instructions.

. . .Has anybody got a link to that case?

. . . Oscilloscopes are much smaller than that, typically 45 cm front to back, 20-25 cm wide and 15–25 cm high!

Chris Williams

 

[Watershed]

. . .I have to confess I've never seen it actually quoted what the actual weight or dimensions of passengers' luggage maximum must not exceed, but I would have thought you ought to be allowed the airline maximum of 22 kg with the dimensions of an airline approved luggage carrier, and the items I bring back are (typically!) oscilloscopes which weigh 10–15 kg and have a carrying handle, and can easily be placed on end–of–carriage luggage racks without inconveniencing any other passengers!

. . .(I have actually had train conductors wait at a table if I have had to place the item in a table because luggage racks are full and then get up to use a toilet, but they simply wanted to make sure it wasn't simply left unattended on a train without a passenger being present to account for it!)

. . .Judging by the size and amounts of what I've seen our ethnic minority friends carry on trains sometimes in the past, I'd have thought that what I carry should be allowed in most cases!

Chris Williams

There is no absolute weight or size limit for general items of luggage. The requirement is simply that you're able to handle it by yourself without needing assistance, and that it fits on the train and won't cause an obstruction.

Furniture is subject to a size limit of 30x70x90cm but in all honesty you'd be struggling to take anything much larger through the train doors, let alone stow it somewhere out of the way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The only concern I'd have with an oscilloscope is whether an unprotected cathode ray tube would be considered a safety hazard. It might be prudent to take some sort of bag, ideally padded, to carry it in - then it's just a piece of luggage. A medium trolley case would seem to be perfectly suitable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2024 ==

The max dimensions, applying to "furniture" items, are, I believe, 30cm x 70cm x 90cm. Which isn't all that big!

TOCs can also publicise tighter restrictions as per the NRCoT. It appears all the long distance TOCs operating out of Kings Cross are the only ones I've ever seen that do. Lumo is notoriously tight (though the oscilloscope noted would still fit, just) but both LNER and Grand Central publicise a rule of three pieces, one large (max 30x70x90), one medium (airline carry on size) and one small (something like a woman's handbag or a laptop case). They don't, however, that I've seen, enforce it.

Avanti are a lot more sensible - they point out that a piece concept is a bad idea because a larger number of smaller bags is better than a smaller number of larger bags.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

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Planks of wood more than 2m long aren't allowed on the Tube

This man from Kent tried to sneak past TfL staff at Tottenham Court Road

He complained about the 'cruel' prosecution, got a conviction, conditional discharge, £125 costs, £26 victim surcharge

Don't carry planks of wood!

 

[AlterEgo]

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Don't carry planks of wood!

Incidentally the witness report makes no mention of which notice the accused was supposed to have ignored, and they have charged him under the wrong Bylaw if they are actually doing him for ignoring a staff member's instruction.

Another person victimised by the courts for a non-issue, and penalised for being complaint. As if you'd stand there and give your name and address! I wouldn't.

Kirk's doing great work in exploring the scandal of SJPN and fighting Britain's addiction to criminal enforcement of what in most sensible places are civil matters. The staff should simply be allowed to refuse access to the network in these cases.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Incidentally the witness report makes no mention of which notice the accused was supposed to have ignored, and they have charged him under the wrong Bylaw if they are actually doing him for ignoring a staff member's instruction.

Another person victimised by the courts for a non-issue, and penalised for being complaint. As if you'd stand there and give your name and address! I wouldn't.

Kirk's doing great work in exploring the scandal of SJPN and fighting Britain's addiction to criminal enforcement of what in most sensible places are civil matters. The staff should simply be allowed to refuse access to the network in these cases.

They'll just be convicted for breach of Byelaw 12 in totality - it's just that the witness statement references 12(1) instead of 12(2).

I think this is actually a fair prosecution - it's unreasonable and dangerous to the extreme to carry long planks of wood on the tube/Elizabeth line - rightly turned away, but with no penalty at all at that stage.

It's only the fact that he blatantly disregarded this and tried to sneak back in which led to his prosecution.

Would be better if Byelaws had a fixed penalty option available, preventing the need to go to court but also penalising poor customer actions.

However, I'm sure TfL will have entered into correspondence prior to prosecution, like you see on the fare evasion threads - and it was probably avoidable with a bit of remorse and apology - not the defiant and begrudging acceptance of guilt.

 

[AlterEgo]

They'll just be convicted for breach of Byelaw 12 in totality - it's just that the witness statement references 12(1) instead of 12(2).

You can't be convicted of a Bylaw "in totality", you have to specify which charge or charges are being laid, and the court data Kirk is using says this was 12(2) - disobeying a sign or notice.

I think this is actually a fair prosecution - it's unreasonable and dangerous to the extreme to carry long planks of wood on the tube/Elizabeth line - rightly turned away, but with no penalty at all at that stage.

It's only the fact that he blatantly disregarded this and tried to sneak back in which led to his prosecution.

Would be better if Byelaws had a fixed penalty option available, preventing the need to go to court but also penalising poor customer actions.

However, I'm sure TfL will have entered into correspondence prior to prosecution, like you see on the fare evasion threads - and it was probably avoidable with a bit of remorse and apology - not the defiant and begrudging acceptance of guilt.

Miserable way to run a society.

He'd have been better served by just being made to leave. That'll teach him to comply and give his name and address.

The fact many people in this country think it is the criminal courts' remit to deal with people who try to take planks of wood on the Elizabeth Line is symptomatic of a real brain disease so many Brits suffer from. A total lack of imagination and using a sledgehammer to crack a nut as per usual.

The magistrate thought this was a waste of time too, giving them a conditional discharge and no punishment.

 

[talldave]

The only concern I'd have with an oscilloscope is whether an unprotected cathode ray tube would be considered a safety hazard. It might be prudent to take some sort of bag, ideally padded, to carry it in - then it's just a piece of luggage. A medium trolley case would seem to be perfectly suitable.

I've found those big blue Ikea bags are great for ebay pickups.

If the OP's in the South East a lot, an Oyster card (with railcard loaded) might add some flexibility - you can go a long way for a £1.75 bus fare for starters.

 

[Speed Whiskers]

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Don't carry planks of wood!

As the TFL worker stated in their evidence that "items longer than 2 meters are not permitted to be brought on to the network", should the likes of Richard Osman (2.01 m) and Greg Davies (2.03 m), for example, be worried?

 

[AlbertBeale]

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Don't carry planks of wood!

Years ago, I needed to get some planks of wood from Windsor (Windsor Great Park, in fact) to London. I had help getting them into the town from the park, and then took them from Windsor to Paddington on BR, and on to Euston Square via a SS Underground line (it was a bit of a struggle). I coped with any potential difficulty with the regulations by attaching a bike to the planks, and explaining that I was actually taking a bike (which was allowed) and just happened to have some planks of wood tied to it. (Somewhat spurious, since the pedals wouldn't go round on account of the planks lashed to the bike.) It was of course possible to wheel the bike+planks combination, and since I was only going as far as a building a block or so south of Euston Road, it all turned out fine.

Also, in an even earlier era, a colleague moved house from London to Bradford by bringing a (small) van of furniture and other stuff to Kings Cross, nearly filling up the guards van (those were the days) - I was one of the people loading his stuff. He had a crew of people at the other end waiting to unload his belongings from the train when it arrived. Such different times...

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Years ago, I needed to get some planks of wood from Windsor (Windsor Great Park, in fact) to London. I had help getting them into the town from the park, and then took them from Windsor to Paddington on BR, and on to Euston Square via a SS Underground line (it was a bit of a struggle). I coped with any potential difficulty with the regulations by attaching a bike to the planks, and explaining that I was actually taking a bike (which was allowed) and just happened to have some planks of wood tied to it. (Somewhat spurious, since the pedals wouldn't go round on account of the planks lashed to the bike.) It was of course possible to wheel the bike+planks combination, and since I was only going as far as a building a block or so south of Euston Road, it all turned out fine.

Assuming this to be properly years ago, it raises the question of how you coped with the stairs at Slough, Paddington (presumably) and Euston Square.

Clearly you did, but how?

(Slough and Paddington now have lifts: Euston Square I think still doesn't. And I don't think there was ever a barrow crossing over the mains at Slough although there was one for the reliefs, accessing the outside world via the north exit on platform 5)

 

[CharlieSpotted]

I have personally seen someone take a washing machine (attached to a sack truck) on the Cross City line in Birmingham. Couldn't believe my eyes.