Live times would be better but it was more that you had just three lines of information at a notionally substantial hub. At Corwen, there’s much more on the display plus full departure listings.
I definitely agree that Derbyshire is one of the better authorities for providing public transport information and timetables. Perhaps, occasionally the information at bus stops is not as good as it could be, but their online timetable information is fantastic compared to most other authorities outside of large urban areas. Derbyshire have a complete online library of timetables. I live in neighbouring Nottinghamshire where they just direct you to the individual bus companies or Traveline for timetable information.
In Edinburgh, it's really up to the operators themselves to provide printed timetables in bus stop cases and Lothian are excellent at doing so, even in remote locations. Companies like First, McGill's, Horsburgh and Stagecoach have been very poor historically. They have flurries of activity, possibly when launching new routes or after a spate of complaints. Subsequently they lose interest, perhaps when they see the amount of effort/cost involved and when challenged will claim it's up to councils to provide publicity.
I agree with you both, that should be the minimum level of acceptable information. Ideally, every stop should have current timetables but we have to accept the reality that ideals went out of the window long ago in many areas and are unlikely to return.
I think the current 'Do nothing' situation from operators and councils is unacceptable. I think the proposal put forward by WAB is kind of a 'do minimum' option which gives people the basic information they need. The basic reassurance that you are in the right place goes a very long way.
Llandudno is particularly bad because of the amount of wrong information on journey planners. Many routes linking to stops which don't exist, or linking to stops which they don't serve, journey planners showing routes that don't exist, Some stops not existing at all in NAPTAN (bus stop database in basic terms) so journey planners aren't picking up the stops. Thankfully, someone I know has been working with Traveline Cymru and Arriva to try and get the issues resolved but it's a long, slow process.
I guess my concern about bus stops isn't just about not having timetables, it's that services of some operators aren't mentioned at all. Certainly in Derbyshire there are stops you would only think a Wellglade company served and not be aware that Hulleys also ran from there.
I don't know if having a list of operators is that important.
Whilst not wishing to "do down" this suggestion, it still needs some basic commitment from local authorities/operators to keep on top of things.
Ah, sorry, I think you've misunderstood my point.
I think it can have more widespread benefits. A lot of people are nervous about using public transport and while I'm sure plenty would dismiss them, I'd rather give them the tools to better understand what their options are. Not everyone is fluent with smartphones, not everyone has a great sense of direction. There is probably more need in the more touristy areas where people might not have local knowledge, but I'd advocate for a significant number of stops to have information showing nearby ones with other services, a diagram showing what connections they can make from where they are any so on.
I've got a sort of vision for a basic bus stop / shelter that could be one or two perching seats with a simple wrap around side and stop. Enough to keep the worst of the weather off. Built in cases for timetables and maps, solar panel, light and charger. Some form of connectivity to show departures on a built in display. Something fairly cheap to manufacture and which doesn't need any infrastructure to install. Ideal for remote locations as well as quieter suburbs and the like.
Sadly the wrap-around bit is likely to block pavements in a lot of locations, and solar panels are unacceptable because somebody has decided that you need stick soil over the top of them and turn them into "living" shelters for some reason.
I'm only guessing, but Derbyshire may well require a written agreement from an operator before they can put up their own displays and bus stop flags. It would give conditions and obligations e.g. what is acceptable to display; how long is to be allowed for an out-of-date display to be removed; methods of working; how to share a case if there is more than one operator; and so on. It may even require a payment to ensure that the authority can remove material if the operator was to go bust (this is a standard condition on brown tourist signs round here, for example). Unsurprisingly, smaller operators usually find it more difficult to comply with these requirements than do larger companies.
In Co Durham and in many other counties (e.g. Gloucestershire, Wiltshire, Gwynedd, Northumberland), it is the local authority that provides roadside information, and it really is operator agnostic - it's stated but not with any importance.
Think usage will be fairly minimal for maps outside of town centres. TBH, we're struggling to get times at stops in the main. Maybe nice to have but whilst that sort of map is really useful in town centres and tourist areas, there's perhaps an acknowledgement as to what we can do.
Always a bugbear of mine - in fact, my friends at TfW are always fed up with me complaining about Llandudno...
I think it'd be reasonable to divide all stops into [timetable + map] , [routes + map] , and [routes]. The proportion of each would vary depending on how much the LA is willing to spend keeping up to date, but you'd ideally have the most info at town centre stops, transport interchanges, and tourist destinations.
Easier to justify financially though if you only have to reissue when a route is added or is substantially re-routed.
At what cost though? I suppose what I'm suggesting is reworking at-stop information given the neglect seen at a large proportion of bus stops in the UK - to try and minimise outdated information whilst still ensuring the absolute essentials are provided at each stop.
I get what you're saying. My statement is that you have that already in that we often see timetables updated yet stuff like route numbers on flags isn't touched. The concern would be the council pop up a notice and go "job done" and that's it. That's why I say it's counter intuitive but almost the changes to timetables are an incentive to make sure things are updated.
Once again @RT4038 is on the money (as a rather appropriate phrase).
Do you have any context for that price? Was it a one-off, or did it come with a contract to maintain and manage the data connection, installation and so on?
Solar is getting more and more cost effective, in urban settings power is usually readily available. I'm also not thinking of a shelter you enter, so disabled access might not be such an issue. I'm thinking more almost an open fronted phone booth type thing, just to give basic shelter.
Are many people connecting to wifi related to public transport? I thought that uptake had massively reduced in recent years with more people using mobile data? I know that doesn't help with you saying about poor signal but if wifi was provided, it would cost money and would anyone even use it?
I agree fully it still requires some commitment from someone. Hopefully less commitment required though means more LAs/Ops would go for it. If someone tells you that to maintain something you must update it every 3 months, you are less likely to opt for it versus something that you need to update once per year perhaps?
I believe that in Shropshire, publicity it down to the operator and I know Arriva has a publicity person. Delegating the timetables is one thing, it's a whole other thing for them to sort flags. Flags are costly and it's going up ladders to attach them. You can't go up a ladder these days without 3 people to check the ladder is secure, having a full harness, and you need to close the road for half a day just incase an inpatient driver passes too closely, then you need a site supervisor. You get where this is going. An enthusiastic driver wanting to help out can easily replace bus stop posters, never in a million years would they be told they could go and change a bus stop flag though. I say that as someone who has put up bus stop timetables in a bus stop but I can safely say you wouldn't get me up a ladder attaching flags to lampposts etc.
You can add to this Western Isles refusing to properly update their Traveline entries so if try to use a journey planner to simplify things for yourself, there is a good chance that it is wrong.
I think it has a place if targetted. Poor signal areas (don't forget one network may be fine but others won't) and areas popular with foreign tourists. The loss of mobile roaming doesn't just affect us post-Brexit.
The concern, as I say, is that it becomes "job done" and it's less likely to be updated than a timetable. Just my view.
I'm fairly certain that it's Arriva and they do update their timetables. The health and safety issue isn't as bad as you fear. However, it does take time and hence why I'm less bothered about having route numbers on bus stop flags.
I must admit I don't know if this is common practice, but I do know TFGM used to charge operators for stop usage, so having such income would provide a means to keep stops current. And conversely, if things weren't kept up to date then operators would have a valid complaint.
I’ve seen cancellations displayed on the displays at Halifax Bus Station
