Inspector did not ask for details- HELP

[h1234]

Hello,

I have seen many posts about this sort of incident but my circumstances are a little different. I was travelling from St Pancras to Dover on a child open return ticket today. An officer stopped me to scan my ticked and ask if I was a child to which I didn’t respond. He then said he would report the ticket and let me go- he didn’t ask for any further questions or details. I use trainline regularly and admittedly purchase child tickets (I know it’s very silly but I am a broke uni student). The ticket was scanned again by an onboard inspector and no issues there. I am no worried as I have made many journeys like this- seeing as no details were requested could this still be a big issue as I am now panicking.

I use the same trainline account and also use Apple Pay.

 

[John R]

As I understand it, they will be able to trace you from your ticket, although I’m slightly surprised your details weren’t taken.

As for the second inspection, I wonder whether the scan flagged to that inspector that the ticket had already been reported, so they didn’t need to do anything?

 

[ikcdab]

My experience is that if your details were not taken then you probably won't hear any more.
You said you know it's "silly". Well it's more than that, it's illegal and if you are caught you would be liable for hefty penalties or prosecution.
The point is that having scanned your ticket, you are "on your system" and if you get stopped again all of your previous ticket history will be looked at.
So what you need to do now is to ensure you buy valid tickets from now on.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Southeastern will be able to find out who you were if they scanned your ticket, and if they did the matter will almost certainly be taken further.

As for what happens next Southeastern will write to you in the next few weeks saying that they have received a report and are considering prosecuting you but will ask for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. The letter will use quite threatening language. It is extremely important that you reply to this letter and I suggest mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Southeastern are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court if they want to.

An aggravating factor in your case is that you have done this before. Southeastern will be able to search your online ticket purchase history and might ask you further questions about your purchasing history either now or at some point in the future.

If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the outstanding fares avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase. You will also have to pay an admin fee, typically around £150 to reflect the train company's costs of dealing with your case. If you are offered a settlement you will need to be in a position to pay it in full within a few days of it being offered - payment in installments isnt normally allowed. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[h1234]

As I understand it, they will be able to trace you from your ticket, although I’m slightly surprised your details weren’t taken.

As for the second inspection, I wonder whether the scan flagged to that inspector that the ticket had already been reported, so they didn’t need to do anything?

it did not flag as anything because I was able to see his screen. I was thinking that they won’t be able to trace me as no details were given but surely he wouldn’t state he would report the ticket as an empty threat unless it’s to scare me?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jun 2024 ==

My experience is that if your details were not taken then you probably won't hear any more.
You said you know it's "silly". Well it's more than that, it's illegal and if you are caught you would be liable for hefty penalties or prosecution.
The point is that having scanned your ticket, you are "on your system" and if you get stopped again all of your previous ticket history will be looked at.
So what you need to do now is to ensure you buy valid tickets from now on.

My apologies, I understand the gravity of the situation and will definitely not be doing this again. Thank you for your response.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jun 2024 ==

Welcome to the forum!

Southeastern will be able to find out who you were if they scanned your ticket, and if they did the matter will almost certainly be taken further.

As for what happens next Southeastern will write to you in the next few weeks saying that they have received a report and are considering prosecuting you but will ask for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. The letter will use quite threatening language. It is extremely important that you reply to this letter and I suggest mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Southeastern are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court if they want to.

An aggravating factor in your case is that you have done this before. Southeastern will be able to search your online ticket purchase history and might ask you further questions about your purchasing history either now or at some point in the future.

If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the outstanding fares avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase. You will also have to pay an admin fee, typically around £150 to reflect the train company's costs of dealing with your case. If you are offered a settlement you will need to be in a position to pay it in full within a few days of it being offered - payment in installments isnt normally allowed. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Hello,

Thank you for your response. May I ask How will they be able to find me just by scanning my ticket, my trainline account has nothing besides my email. Also do you know how long it will roughly take for them to contact me?

 

[Hadders]

Thank you for your response. May I ask How will they be able to find me just by scanning my ticket, my trainline account has nothing besides my email. Also do you know how long it will roughly take for them to contact me?

Train companies are capable of sending emails.

 

[MrJeeves]

my trainline account has nothing besides my email

And your billing information for whatever card you have bought the tickets with, too... Apple/Google Pay also provide this info to the retailer.

 

[reb0118]

it did not flag as anything because I was able to see his screen.

A child rate fare does not automatically "flag" in the system upon scanning. Rather the flag is an action taken by the operator after the fact. There are various options but they all to a greater or lesser degree mark your account for additional scrutiny, either by the back office or revenue protection if encountered later on en route.

Personally, as a conductor, I don't have time to investigate all suspicious ticket activities but I will often flag tickets for further investigation if I think it warrants it. Potentially being too old for a child ticket is only one of these activities. I may, or may not, also give a verbal warning - but the point that I've flagged it means that the matter has not been ignored and that chances of further action being taken are significantly increased.

To avoid that happening restrict yourself to only using 100% valid tickets from herein on. Much better for your stress levels.

 

[h1234]

And your billing information for whatever card you have bought the tickets with, too... Apple/Google Pay also provide this info to the retailer.

I have just realise that the billing info on the card I used was my old address in another city - will they contact me by email or still send a letter there ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2024 ==

A child rate fare does not automatically "flag" in the system upon scanning. Rather the flag is an action taken by the operator after the fact. There are various options but they all to a greater or lesser degree mark your account for additional scrutiny, either by the back office or revenue protection if encountered later on en route.

Personally, as a conductor, I don't have time to investigate all suspicious ticket activities but I will often flag tickets for further investigation if I think it warrants it. Potentially being too old for a child ticket is only one of these activities. I may, or may not, also give a verbal warning - but the point that I've flagged it means that the matter has not been ignored and that chances of further action being taken are significantly increased.

To avoid that happening restrict yourself to only using 100% valid tickets from herein on. Much better for your stress levels.

Thanks for the reply and info. The stress is definitely not worth it and I will not be doing it again. So does you flagging a ticket always result in further action being taken?

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks for the reply and info. The stress is definitely not worth it and I will not be doing it again. So does you flagging a ticket always result in further action being taken?

No.

Nobody can give you any assurances as to what will or won't happen here. They might contact you, they might not. It's impossible to know really.

 

[Haywain]

I have just realise that the billing info on the card I used was my old address in another city

You might want to update that, you wouldn't want a new card sent to an address you don't live at.

 

[John R]

I have just realise that the billing info on the card I used was my old address in another city - will they contact me by email or still send a letter there ?

They might do either. You’d certainly hope they would try and contact you by email before starting a prosecution, but the availability of even an old address means that should you ignore any such emails, it won’t be that difficult for the court authorities to subsequently find you should you be prosecuted and convicted.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

You might wish to consider how you are going to raise some money to pay the train company in the event they write to you; i.e. borrow from friends/family, getting part-time work etc.

 

[AlbertBeale]

The first point is that, as other have said, if you bought tickets online then you're essentially traceable - as is your past ticketing history...

If they have a wrong address for you, that doesn't get you off the hook - in fact it might make it worse, because you won't get any correspondence they'd send before prosecution, and so won't have a chance to try to get an out-of-court settlement; hence it'll go to court and you'll get a fine and a criminal conviction while knowing nothing about it. Unravelling that (which there is a procedure for if a court case happened that you genuinely knew nothing about) would be an unnecessary faff.

If they do check, having found a problem when they scanned your ticket, they would quickly see from your records that you seem to have done the same thing lots of times before. Presumably this will make it even more likely that they'll pursue you over this. In which case, it's likely to be easier in the end if they do track you down quickly (or if you contact them to aid that), so you can try to avoid it going down the court route.

Note that an out-of-court settlement will be costly though (however, almost certainly less costly than the fine and costs in a court case, as well as meaning no criminal conviction). They're likely to bill you for every single instance of an unpaid journey, at the full, undiscounted, anytime rate, with no allowance for the possibility of cheaper returns and so on, and taking no account of what you did pay. Presumably you can work out how many times you did this? Then multiply that number of trips (counting a return as two trips), by the full fare from St Pancras to Dover (assuming you went on the direct fast train, then I think that's more than £50 a time), and then add on the railway company's traditional cost for their admin in dealing with this - perhaps another £150.

 

[h1234]

The first point is that, as other have said, if you bought tickets online then you're essentially traceable - as is your past ticketing history...

If they have a wrong address for you, that doesn't get you off the hook - in fact it might make it worse, because you won't get any correspondence they'd send before prosecution, and so won't have a chance to try to get an out-of-court settlement; hence it'll go to court and you'll get a fine and a criminal conviction while knowing nothing about it. Unravelling that (which there is a procedure for if a court case happened that you genuinely knew nothing about) would be an unnecessary faff.

If they do check, having found a problem when they scanned your ticket, they would quickly see from your records that you seem to have done the same thing lots of times before. Presumably this will make it even more likely that they'll pursue you over this. In which case, it's likely to be easier in the end if they do track you down quickly (or if you contact them to aid that), so you can try to avoid it going down the court route.

Note that an out-of-court settlement will be costly though (however, almost certainly less costly than the fine and costs in a court case, as well as meaning no criminal conviction). They're likely to bill you for every single instance of an unpaid journey, at the full, undiscounted, anytime rate, with no allowance for the possibility of cheaper returns and so on, and taking no account of what you did pay. Presumably you can work out how many times you did this? Then multiply that number of trips (counting a return as two trips), by the full fare from St Pancras to Dover (assuming you went on the direct fast train, then I think that's more than £50 a time), and then add on the railway company's traditional cost for their admin in dealing with this - perhaps another £150.

The problem is I hadn’t even realised my billing address was wrong for the card on Apple Pay till reading this forum- I have updated it now but don’t know if that will make a difference. I am currently studying for a professional career and would not want this to go to court so would want to settle. However, no details whatsoever were requested of me not even my name by the inspector- if they were I would’ve given the correct details. I am hoping they contact me by email. I know what I did is wrong but I don’t think it’s fair to contact me via address for one I didn’t even provide with how grave the consequences are. I have been checking my spam and junk and nothing so far. Does anybody know what email they use when contacting or whether they would use email or post?

 

[AlterEgo]

I have been checking my spam and junk and nothing so far. Does anybody know what email they use when contacting or whether they would use email or post?

They could use either; if they have your billing address they may use the post, if not, they may only email you. If they are auditing your purchases it may be some time before you hear from them, and that is even if they are inclined to contact you at all. (Indeed, they might not!)

The moral of the story is not to fiddle your fares, because you are now looking over your shoulder and don't have clarity of the consequences.

 

[John R]

I know what I did is wrong but I don’t think it’s fair to contact me via address for one I didn’t even provide with

Fairness doesn’t really come into it. They are entitled to use whatever means they have to contact you, and card billing address seems a perfectly reasonable one to use, as it’s your responsibility (indeed almost certainly an obligation with the provider) to keep it up to date.

And if you are studying for a professional career then you really need to take a good long hard look at yourself as to what you were doing, rather than complaining about any possible implications being unfair.