Juniper and Turbostar Mock-Up, c.2000

[AlistairCowell]

Came across the picture the other day and found this photo on flickr:

20001123_007: Turbostar (mock-up?)

www.flickr.com

It was on display at a rail exhibition somewhere in 2000 or 2001 (I can't find the exact location further, Wikipedia does takeover
the search), but anyway it was branded as 'Turbostar Traveller' and the front yellow panel looks different (more square yellow
below the cab,rather being round on other Turbostar units. Exact number is unknown, but this appears to be a mock-up.

A mock-up Class 458 is also present in the same exhibition:

20001123_005: Class 458 (mock-up?)

www.flickr.com

 

[skyhigh]

They look way too substantial to just be a mock-up.

 

[fgwrich]

Can’t say for the Turbostar, but the Juniper appears to be a full production vehicle than a mock up.

As of the location, that is the NEC Birmingham. The large wall stripes are the give away, and for Alsthom would have been in effect a trip down the road for a Juniper vehicle.

 

[skyhigh]

Can’t say for the Turbostar, but the Juniper appears to be a full production vehicle than a mock up.

The 458s began production in 1998 and entered service in early 2000 onwards, so it would be bizarre to send a mock-up to a trade show in November 2000.

Externally the body and coupler of the Turbostar looks real, though it's hard to see from the photo what else is below sole bar. According to a previous thread on here that vehicle was a demonstrator (with features designed for shorter journey times e.g. no Aircon hence the 'Traveller' name) but was later rebuilt into a standard Turbostar. So it appears both are genuine vehicles and not display mock ups.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jun 2024 ==

Edited to add - apparently that vehicle is now in 170399.

 

[sprinterguy]

Edited to add - apparently that vehicle is now in 170399.

That unit has been renumbered a couple of times since: First to 170309, and latterly to its present identity of 168329.

 

[AlistairCowell]

I think that demonstrator vehicle was built around the same time as SWT Class 170s, hence its coaches being numbered 50399 + 79399.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Can’t say for the Turbostar, but the Juniper appears to be a full production vehicle than a mock up.

As of the location, that is the NEC Birmingham. The large wall stripes are the give away, and for Alsthom would have been in effect a trip down the road for a Juniper vehicle.

The two-yearly Railtex, I think - hence the general lack of results on the internet search as it's not open to the general public so there's not a lot of images available other that what has been in press releases at the time.

The 170 was definitely an actual vehicle, and I'm quite sure the 458 was as well.

 

[Doomotron]

The two-yearly Railtex, I think - hence the general lack of results on the internet search as it's not open to the general public so there's not a lot of images available other that what has been in press releases at the time.

The 170 was definitely an actual vehicle, and I'm quite sure the 458 was as well.

I don't doubt that you're right, but there's something off about that 170, and the logo on the side looks weird as well, like a dodgy Photoshop job.

The 458s began production in 1998 and entered service in early 2000 onwards, so it would be bizarre to send a mock-up to a trade show in November 2000.

Externally the body and coupler of the Turbostar looks real, though it's hard to see from the photo what else is below sole bar. According to a previous thread on here that vehicle was a demonstrator (with features designed for shorter journey times e.g. no Aircon hence the 'Traveller' name) but was later rebuilt into a standard Turbostar. So it appears both are genuine vehicles and not display mock ups.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jun 2024 ==

Edited to add - apparently that vehicle is now in 170399.

Are there any photos of the interior? The lack of air conditioning also doesn't make sense since the windows are clearly sealed, but I presume they didn't install hopper windows just for a demonstration.

 

[Snow1964]

There was a railtex exhibition at National Exhibition Centre (halls 1 and 2) held on 21-23 November 2000, which ties up with dates on photo

 

[Neptune]

Yes 170399 (one vehicle of) was done as a demonstrator for more local services so didn’t have things like luggage racks or tables. The Chapman seats had the basic cushion as seen on the sprinters rather than the more substantial one fitted to the 170’s. Nothing came of it although many years later of course came the class 172 for these exact kinds of services.

After this it was given an SWT interior and was used as a hire unit by Porterbrook having several liveries over the years until finding a permanent home with TPE (as 170309) and now Chiltern (as 168329). It of course had the trial hybrid engine and is in the course of being converted back to standard.

 

[Energy]

There was also the class 424 Networker Classic , which was a 4Cig with a new Turbostar-like body on top. None got ordered but Adtranz did a single vehicle as a demonstrator.

 

[edwin_m]

I remember seeing the Turbostar Traveller at the NEC. I was surprised the cab was facing away from the entrance, as it would have had much more impact the other way round. I think there was some discussion at the time of Adtranz switching to a different engine, and I wondered if the positioning was to put the engine on the non-visible side so people couldn't see what was (or wasn't) fitted.

I don't recall seeing the 458 at that exhibition (which was the only time I went) so that might have been a different year.

 

[AlistairCowell]

There was also the class 424 Networker Classic , which was a 4Cig with a new Turbostar-like body on top. None got ordered but Adtranz did a single vehicle as a demonstrator.

That's right, vehicle was 76112, an ex-Class 421 EMU. This vehicle was rebuilt and was displayed at London Victoria in 1998.
Nothing came out of the project and turned to new-build Desiro and Electrostars trains instead.

Have a look here: https://sremg.org.uk/emu/class424.shtml

 

[ScottGallagher]

I remember the original concept drawing of the 458 without corridor connection so essentially a DC 334. It had the original stripey stagecoach livery that looked like NSE. Would gave seen it in Rail Magazine Circa 1998.

 

[AlistairCowell]

Saw a concept drawing of the Class 334, as well as a render of the Class 460 for the Gatwick Express just a few pages later, on Rail Magazine back in early 1999. It is hard to believe that the Class 460s have already been binned!

 

[D365]

It is hard to believe that the Class 460s have already been binned!

OT, but indeed. The 458/5s have been a bit of a saga…

 

[Russel]

I don't doubt that you're right, but there's something off about that 170, and the logo on the side looks weird as well, like a dodgy Photoshop job.

I thought the same about the 170, but after looking again, it's because the yellow panel is different to every other 170, there is no yellow above the windscreen and the yellow below is a lot more square than we see on the rest of the fleet.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

Just out of curiosity, did trains built by Alstom at Washwood Heath during the late 90s and early 00s for other international operators experience such scandalous build quality and reliability issues? As did not Alstom produce some Swedish High Speed Trains built their, does anyone know is Alstom built any international trains at Washwood Heath after circa after 1995? Apart from the latter?

 

[vuzzeho]

I love seeing mockups of prototype designs for trains. These days, there's usually very little difference, but it's still interesting to me. I remember seeing the mockup of the Class 395 when I was a child. Did the 390s or 221s ever have any similar mockups on display?

 

[Doomotron]

I remember seeing the mockup of the Class 395 when I was a child.

The 395 mockup had an interesting livery choice, using the colour scheme of the Connex livery for the exterior. Even though it did look nice in it, surely they would have known they were going to be blue when they were making it?

 

[vuzzeho]

The 395 mockup had an interesting livery choice, using the colour scheme of the Connex livery for the exterior. Even though it did look nice in it, surely they would have known they were going to be blue when they were making it?

Was it Connex? I thought it was just a blank white to appear neutral.

 

[Doomotron]

Was it Connex? I thought it was just a blank white to appear neutral.

White with yellow doors, the Connex colour scheme.