SWR 707 current diagrams.

[stadler]

Do the two remaining SWR 707 units have any set diagrams that they are booked to work each day? If so does anyone know what the current diagrams are? What services are they booked to work? Or is it just decided on the day and they are treated like 450/455/458 and can be put on anything?

 

[ValleyLines142]

Generally yes. They're on a diagram that predominantly interworks Hampton Court and Guildford via Epsom services:

2D90 0618 Epsom to Waterloo
2J09 0706 Waterloo to Hampton Court
2J16 0753 Hampton Court to Waterloo
2D15 0854 Waterloo to Guildford via Epsom
2D28 1045 Guildford to Waterloo via Epsom
2J29 1206 Waterloo to Hampton Court
2J36 1254 Hampton Court to Waterloo
2D35 1354 Waterloo to Guildford via Epsom
2D48 1528 Guildford to Waterloo via Epsom
2J49 1706 Waterloo to Hampton Court
2J56 1754 Hampton Court to Waterloo
2D55 1854 Waterloo to Guildford via Epsom
2D68 2045 Guildford to Waterloo via Epsom
2J69 2206 Waterloo to Hampton Court
2J76 2254 Hampton Court to Waterloo

 

[stadler]

Generally yes. They're on a diagram that predominantly interworks Hampton Court and Guildford via Epsom services:

2D90 0618 Epsom to Waterloo
2J09 0706 Waterloo to Hampton Court
2J16 0753 Hampton Court to Waterloo
2D15 0854 Waterloo to Guildford via Epsom
2D28 1045 Guildford to Waterloo via Epsom
2J29 1206 Waterloo to Hampton Court
2J36 1254 Hampton Court to Waterloo
2D35 1354 Waterloo to Guildford via Epsom
2D48 1528 Guildford to Waterloo via Epsom
2J49 1706 Waterloo to Hampton Court
2J56 1754 Hampton Court to Waterloo
2D55 1854 Waterloo to Guildford via Epsom
2D68 2045 Guildford to Waterloo via Epsom
2J69 2206 Waterloo to Hampton Court
2J76 2254 Hampton Court to Waterloo

Thank you for the diagrams. Much appreciated. I am presuming this is for Monday to Friday only? Are they disused on Saturday and Sunday and presumably stay in the depot?

 

[OliverH68]

Thank you for the diagrams. Much appreciated. I am presuming this is for Monday to Friday only? Are they disused on Saturday and Sunday and presumably stay in the depot?

Yes weekdays only, in depot over the weekend.

 

[infobleep]

I thought all the 707s had gone so was surprised to see one yesterday after 10 am.

The pictures show 707024 and 707030 on platform 2 at Guildford railway station at around 10:27 on 15 July 2024.

On platform 3 in the background is a class 455.

Two of the photos are showing the top of both classes of trains. One view looking in the direction of heading up and the other in the direction of heading down, in train direction speak.

 

[Siemens Staines]

I think that the one pair of 707s for their one dedicated diagram has operated for 154 of the 159 days it was supposed to operate since it commenced on 20.11.23. The five exceptions being

08.12.23 707030 solo
12.12.23 No unit data reported on RTT, so it could have been 707024 + 707030 in which case it is 155 from 159
26.03.24 707030 + 707024 failed in the afternoon and replaced by 455711 + 455708
27.03.24 455901 + 455868
24.06.24 707024 solo

 

[class444 fan]

How long do they have left now?

 

[stadler]

I am hearing that tomorrow could possibly be the final day of the 707s. I can not confirm this 100% but it is just what a friend who works at SWR told me. He told me that the 707s have an inspection on Friday the 30th and that he is has been told that tomorrow Thursday the 29th is quite likely to be the final day in passenger service of the 707s. They have already been debranded and are running around today in plain red without the SWR logos. So the removal of the logos certainly points to them being withdrawn very soon.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I am hearing that tomorrow could possibly be the final day of the 707s. I can not confirm this 100% but it is just what a friend who works at SWR told me. He told me that the 707s have an inspection on Friday the 30th and that he is has been told that tomorrow Thursday the 29th is quite likely to be the final day in passenger service of the 707s. They have already been debranded and are running around today in plain red without the SWR logos. So the removal of the logos certainly points to them being withdrawn very soon.

I think they've been debranded for some months, but yes - I do believe they are now finally off to SouthEastern because the sub lease is up and wasn't renewed - according to another post somewhere on this forum a couple of weeks ago.

 

[stadler]

I think they've been debranded for some months, but yes - I do believe they are now finally off to SouthEastern because the sub lease is up and wasn't renewed - according to another post somewhere on this forum a couple of weeks ago.

Ah i thought they had been debranded for a while but could not remember when. I was on them earlier today and noticed that lack of logos.

I think i will make sure to take a trip on them again tomorrow as it could well be the last day. It will be a shame to see them go as in my opinion they are the best trains in the SWR fleet.

 

[swt_passenger]

I am hearing that tomorrow could possibly be the final day of the 707s. I can not confirm this 100% but it is just what a friend who works at SWR told me. He told me that the 707s have an inspection on Friday the 30th and that he is has been told that tomorrow Thursday the 29th is quite likely to be the final day in passenger service of the 707s. They have already been debranded and are running around today in plain red without the SWR logos. So the removal of the logos certainly points to them being withdrawn very soon.

It’s also come up a few days ago in the SWR withdrawals thread that tomorrow 29th is their last day. The discussion started here, in post #1899. The latest by @TEW in post #1915 reckons 2J76 2254 from Hampton Court to Waterloo will be the last service.

SWR outgoing Metro fleet withdrawals (complete)

There’s a pair of 450s on the 2M/F/G circuit today instead of a pair of 455s, is this just for today or is it booked? Booked now.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[stadler]

It’s also come up a few days ago in the SWR withdrawals thread that tomorrow 29th is their last day. The discussion started here, in post #1899. The latest by @TEW in post #1915 reckons 2J76 2254 from Hampton Court to Waterloo will be the last service.

SWR outgoing Metro fleet withdrawals (complete)

There’s a pair of 450s on the 2M/F/G circuit today instead of a pair of 455s, is this just for today or is it booked? Booked now.

www.railforums.co.uk

Sounds like it definitely is the last day tomorrow then. I imagine the last train will be busy full of enthusiasts. I seem to remember that they had a "final 707" before which attracted lots of enthusiasts and then they decided to keep two of them so it ended up not being the last. So this is actually the second time a "final 707" working has happened.

 

[boiledbeans2]

So this is actually the second time a "final 707" working has happened.

Don't worry. If SWR are still around 10 years later, they will attempt to bring back the 707s, refurbish them, run them for a month, attempt to retraction them, abandon retractioning, then bin them. *cough* 442

 

[bluegoblin7]

And so the 707s bow out much like they lived, inauspiciously.

Around 5 enthusiasts on board and another 5 or so regular passengers. Nothing at all to say it’s the last one, aside from being debranded.

Of course, maybe it’ll be back out tomorrow…

 

[stadler]

I see that 455 713 and 455 858 are on the usual 707s diagram today. So it seems that really was the end of the 707s yesterday. Farewell to the best trains in the SWR fleet.

A reduction from 10 car to 8 car will not be popular in the peaks. I remember not long ago almost every SWR suburban train was 10 car but now with the 707s gone and the 456s gone and the 458/5s gone soon and no date for the 701s to properly enter service it will be almost entirely 8 car soon. I guess they could still run 12 car 450s (but not 455s due to no SDO fitted) but i doubt that they have enough of them for that.

I was surprised how quiet the last journey yesterday evening was. The first "last 707" on the 13/10/2023 had around twenty to thirty enthusiasts onboard on the final working but yesterday there was only around five enthusiasts onboard. I think both last workings were late evening too so i was surprised that yesterday was so much quieter.

The 707s must be one of shortest lived fleets. The only ones i can think of that beat them are the SWR 442s which lasted less than a year and the SWT 170s which lasted about six or seven years. The 707s did just slightly over seven years.

They entered service for their first time (and their first and last time with SWT who used them on one day only) on the 17/08/2017 with 707003 and 707005 doing one diagram.

They entered service for their second time (and the first time that SWR used them) on the 05/09/2017 with 707004 and 707006 doing one diagram.

A last working occurred on the 13/10/2023 with 707024 and 707030 working one diagram which ended up not being the last as two of them were reinstated instead of transferring to Southeastern straight away.

The actual final working occurred yesterday on the 29/08/2024 with 707024 and 707030 working one diagram.

So they lasted in service from the 17/08/2017 to the 29/08/2024 giving them a total of seven years and twelve days in passenger service.

 

[TEW]

The diagram is booked 10-458 next week so capacity will be maintained.

 

[infobleep]

The diagram is booked 10-458 next week so capacity will be maintained.

I'm surprised the last working day wasn't today but Fridays might be quieter.

Have they or will they do a farewell tour or is that more for trains going into retirement, rather than transferred elsewhere?

 

[Andy1673]

I'm surprised the last working day wasn't today but Fridays might be quieter.

Have they or will they do a farewell tour or is that more for trains going into retirement, rather than transferred elsewhere?

Unlikely. 707s transferred to SouthEastern so they are active fleet and there is no reason for farewell tour. 458s - don`t know but unlikely as well.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

They entered service for their first time (and their first and last time with SWT who used them on one day only) on the 17/08/2017 with 707003 and 707005 doing one diagram.

That would most likely have been a contract thing, essentially to prove they (the type) had run in public service by a given date, after which there would have been some give and take to fix any outstanding glitches before the full roll out commenced.

 

[stadler]

The diagram is booked 10-458 next week so capacity will be maintained.

That is good to hear. But i doubt that it will last for long. SWR are converting all the 458/5s to 458/4s so presumably it will not be long until they are all converted and it goes back from 10 car to 8 car again. SWR really need to get all of their 701s fully in service.

I'm surprised the last working day wasn't today but Fridays might be quieter.

Have they or will they do a farewell tour or is that more for trains going into retirement, rather than transferred elsewhere?

I highly doubt there will be any farewell tour. It would be nice but very unlikely. I can not think of any TOC that has done a farewell tour or anything special to mark a train moving from one TOC to another. I remember travelling on the last workings of the SWT 170s and GX 460s and nothing special was done at all for the final workings let alone a farewell tour.

Unlikely. 707s transferred to SouthEastern so they are active fleet and there is no reason for farewell tour. 458s - don`t know but unlikely as well.

Considering that SWR did nothing for their 442s which were much older i think a 458s farewell tour is indeed very unlikely. They will probably just get withdrawn without anything special to mark it.

That would most likely have been a contract thing, essentially to prove they (the type) had run in public service by a given date, after which there would have been some give and take to fix any outstanding glitches before the full roll out commenced.

I always presumed it was just that SWT wanted to say they managed to put them in to service before the franchise finished. I would be surprised if there was a set date that they had to enter service by.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I would be surprised if there was a set date that they had to enter service by.

Lets just say (I will be more precise), the contracts concerned, including 458/5 rebuild etc (I refer to the first time around, but won't be much different from the latest incarnation I doubt), did indeed have binding dates that had to be adhered to in relation to many factors, entry to passenger service by at least one diagram, being just one of.

 

[DelW]

That is good to hear. But i doubt that it will last for long. SWR are converting all the 458/5s to 458/4s so presumably it will not be long until they are all converted and it goes back from 10 car to 8 car again. SWR really need to get all of their 701s fully in service.

Not all the 458/5s are due to be converted. It's been stated in the 458 discussion thread that eight units, nos 529 - 536 inclusive, will not be converted - IIRC they are the ex GatEx sets. How long they survive will depend on their available hours and miles remaining prior to heavy maintenance being required.

 

[swt_passenger]

Not all the 458/5s are due to be converted. It's been stated in the 458 discussion thread that eight units, nos 529 - 536 inclusive, will not be converted - IIRC they are the ex GatEx sets. How long they survive will depend on their available hours and miles remaining prior to heavy maintenance being required.

529 and 530 were also originally 458s, but you‘re right that not all the original 30 4 car units are being retained. The 8 GatEx units donated 30 intermediate cars to the 30x458s, then another 30 vehicles allowed for the 6 extra units, but 4 of the 460 driving cars donated their passenger doors to the other 4 and were then scrapped.

 

[DelW]

529 and 530 were also originally 458s, but you‘re right that not all the original 30 4 car units are being retained. The 8 GatEx units donated 30 intermediate cars to the 30x458s, then another 30 vehicles allowed for the 6 extra units, but 4 of the 460 driving cars donated their passenger doors to the other 4 and were then scrapped.

Thanks, I had a suspicion it might have been more complicated than I was suggesting but I couldn't remember the exact details.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

529 and 530 were also originally 458s, but you‘re right that not all the original 30 4 car units are being retained. The 8 GatEx units donated 30 intermediate cars to the 30x458s, then another 30 vehicles allowed for the 6 extra units, but 4 of the 460 driving cars donated their passenger doors to the other 4 and were then scrapped.

I saw 529 running through Richmond yesterday as part of a 10 car service

 

[moley]

That is good to hear. But i doubt that it will last for long. SWR are converting all the 458/5s to 458/4s so presumably it will not be long until they are all converted and it goes back from 10 car to 8 car again. SWR really need to get all of their 701s fully in service.


I highly doubt there will be any farewell tour. It would be nice but very unlikely. I can not think of any TOC that has done a farewell tour or anything special to mark a train moving from one TOC to another. I remember travelling on the last workings of the SWT 170s and GX 460s and nothing special was done at all for the final workings let alone a farewell tour.


Considering that SWR did nothing for their 442s which were much older i think a 458s farewell tour is indeed very unlikely. They will probably just get withdrawn without anything special to mark it.


I always presumed it was just that SWT wanted to say they managed to put them in to service before the franchise finished. I would be surprised if there was a set date that they had to enter service by.

SWT were contractually obligated to introduce the 707s into passenger service by the franchise end date. Otherwise they were liable to a financial penalty.

SWT ran the one service two days before the end of their franchise.

Box ticked, penalty avoided.

 

[Benjwri]

SWT were contractually obligated to introduce the 707s into passenger service by the franchise end date. Otherwise they were liable to a financial penalty.

SWT ran the one service two days before the end of their franchise.

Box ticked, penalty avoided.

And they say franchising is a poor system.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Sorry, duplicate post to that by @SEtrains in the swr-metro-fleet-permanent-withdrawals thread

 

[DelW]

SWT were contractually obligated to introduce the 707s into passenger service by the franchise end date. Otherwise they were liable to a financial penalty.

SWT ran the one service two days before the end of their franchise.

Box ticked, penalty avoided.

And they say franchising is a poor system.

In that case, I blame whoever defined the performance spec that SWT had to meet. Rather than one train in use on one service for one day, it should have been something like 50% of the fleet in service for a 28 day period before SWT qualified for their bonuses (or avoided their penalties).

I still suspect that the pathetic "soft launch" of the 701s, which has now gone on for almost nine months with barely any improvement, is another such example. The trains are "in service", but in a way that is utterly useless for passengers.