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Interrail first class excess

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danaceks

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Hello, my friend and me are planning an Interrail trip for July and I'm just curious about how exactly first class excess fares work. I would assume there's no problem with paying the difference between standard class and first class Anytime tickets, but what if there's a Super Off-Peak standard class ticket and only an Off-Peak first class ticket (as it mostly happens with LNER out of KGX for example)?
Thank you ^^
Daniel
 
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Tetchytyke

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If you’re intending to use first class, it will be cheaper to buy a first class Britrail or Interrail Global pass.
 

Watershed

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If you’re intending to use first class, it will be cheaper to buy a first class Britrail or Interrail Global pass.
Indeed. The ratio between the cost of standard and first class Britrail and Interrail passes is very reasonable - in the region of 1.5x.

But if the OP does want to buy a standard class pass and obtain an excess for an individual journey, they would pay the difference between the 'appropriate' fares based on the time of travel. However, I can see that leading to some perverse outcomes due to the lack of comparable first and standard fares, as the OP alludes to.

For example from Kings Cross to Doncaster on LNER, the excess would be £103.40 at times when Anytime fares apply (£271.50 less £168.10), but it would theoretically be higher at £125 when the Off-Peak First Single and Super Off-Peak Single are valid (£196.70 less £71.70). I think it would be reasonable to expect the excess to be calculated based on the Anytime fares in such a scenario; a 'white lie' that you're going to travel at times when Anytime fares apply would do the trick if it really came to it.

However the OP would probably find it far cheaper to bid for, or buy, an upgrade via SeatFrog if travelling at 'peak' times. Alternatively they could pay the defined onboard upgrade supplement which is available at times when Super Off-Peak tickets are valid, including weekends - this is between £35 and £45 depending on the length of the journey (see here).

The downside is that SeatFrog requires you to tie yourself to a specific train and to make that decision at least a day or two in advance (if you want to make sure that there is still upgrade availability). Onboard upgrades are also subject to availability, so could theoretically be refused if the train is busy. But that would be my suggested approach.

It's worth noting that whilst upgrading to first class is generally permitted onboard the train with LNER and on other long distance trains (you pay the upgrade to the Train Manager), for short and medium distance operators or trains such as SWR, Southern and Thameslink it is generally mandatory to obtain the upgrade at a booking office before boarding. If you do want to upgrade onboard then I would strongly suggest approaching the guard on the platform before boarding, and asking them if they'll give you permission to upgrade onboard. Of course not all of these operators' trains have guards, in which case you're back to needing to go to the booking office.
 

Tazi Hupefi

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Just get the first class interrail pass - I suspect it will pay for itself if you upgrade more than once.

Getting the actual upgrade excess isn't likely to be straightforward either - you will be fine at competent places like London King's Cross, but booking offices will likely either struggle with this, or, you run the risk of it being somewhat of a lottery as to what price you end up paying. There is normally a requirement to obtain the upgrade prior to travel when facilities exist to do so, except on certain InterCity routes on weekends.

Some train operators, especially Thameslink/Southern and Greater Anglia (except services to Norwich) will report for prosecution for sitting in first class with a standard class ticket as their default position.
 

transportphoto

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Some train operators, especially Thameslink/Southern and Greater Anglia (except services to Norwich) will report for prosecution for sitting in first class with a standard class ticket as their default position.
Greater Anglia only operate First Class on their Norwich-London route. All other routes have removed first class since the new trains came along.
 

danaceks

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If you’re intending to use first class, it will be cheaper to buy a first class Britrail or Interrail Global pass.
We have DiscoverEU passes which are sadly strictly non-exchangeable. I would have upgraded it I had the chance to...

But if the OP does want to buy a standard class pass and obtain an excess for an individual journey
Thank you for the comprehensive explanation. Although I wouldn't mind being tied to a specific train, am I forced to buy the first class upgrade on long-distanice trains if I just sit in a free first class seat and wait for the conductor to come? I would imagine the fares are strictly set and the conductor cannot change them even if they wanted to, meaning any negotiation is out of question...
 

Tetchytyke

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Although I wouldn't mind being tied to a specific train, am I forced to buy the first class upgrade on long-distanice trains if I just sit in a free first class seat and wait for the conductor to come?
On a weekend, if you're intending to avail of the Weekend First upgrade, you can just sit in a seat and wait for the guard to come. You would then pay the supplement.

Otherwise, you should purchase the upgrade prior to boarding the train. On some trains the guard may charge you the upgrade fee if you just take a seat. But on some trains you will be subject to a Penalty Fare or prosecution should you sit in a first class seat without holding a first class ticket.

If you are taking an LNER train then the cheapest way of upgrading to first class is likely to be through purchasing a SeatFrog upgrade. These are sold as an 'auction', so the price may vary according to demand, but there is usually the option to buy a guaranteed upgrade at a higher fee. Some other TOCs also use SeatFrog.
 

danaceks

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Okay, thank you

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

On some trains the guard may charge you the upgrade fee if you just take a seat.
Okay but am I then forced to upgrade? Can I just say "No, that's too much to pay, I'm moving to standard class" or is it assumed that I had enough resources available to find out the excess fare?
 
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Tetchytyke

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Okay but am I then forced to upgrade? Can I just say "No, that's too much to pay, I'm moving to standard class" or is it assumed that I had enough resources available to find out the excess fare?
To occupy a first class seat you must hold a first class ticket. If you don't, you are committing an offence.

Some guards may allow you to rectify the matter by purchasing the upgrade. Some guards and some operators do not and will simply issue a Penalty Fare or refer you for prosecution.
 

Watershed

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To occupy a first class seat you must hold a first class ticket. If you don't, you are committing an offence.
It's not quite that simple, because several operators explicitly allow you - even encourage you - to upgrade onboard the train. In such cases sitting in first is not an offence provided you pay the upgrade. What would, however, be an offence is to remain in first class having refused to pay the upgrade.

I would advise the OP to only sit down in first class if:
  1. They have paid the excess (or obtained a SeatFrog upgrade) before boarding at a ticket office, or
  2. They are travelling with an operator that explicitly allows onboard upgrades (e.g. LNER on "Super Off-Peak" trains) and know the cost of the upgrade and are prepared to pay it, or
  3. In all other cases, they have obtained the guard's permission to pay the upgrade onboard before sitting in first class (e.g. when speaking to them on the platform, or whilst in a standard class coach) and know the cost of the upgrade and are prepared to pay it
Okay but am I then forced to upgrade? Can I just say "No, that's too much to pay, I'm moving to standard class" or is it assumed that I had enough resources available to find out the excess fare?
Whilst some guards may be willing for you to leave first class if you find the upgrade too expensive, this is not a course of action I would recommend. What do you do if the guard doesn't come around straight away, and instead a member of the catering staff starts serving you? You can hardly refuse to pay the upgrade having begun to eat or drink...

It is best to check the arrangements for your journey, including the cost of an upgrade, beforehand. As mentioned, SeatFrog or a Weekend First etc. supplement is likely to be the cheapest and easiest way to upgrade in most cases.
 

Tetchytyke

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It's not quite that simple, because several operators explicitly allow you - even encourage you - to upgrade onboard the train. In such cases sitting in first is not an offence provided you pay the upgrade.
True- provided you pay the upgrade.

If you don't pay the upgrade, e.g. by claiming its too expensive, then the matter is more complicated. Some guards may allow you to simply walk back to standard class, but they don't have to- you have occupied first class without holding a first class ticket.

The OP appeared to be trying to find a way of occupying first class and then worming out of paying the upgrade.
 
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