Validity Ticket Bracknell -> Hackney Downs from Reading to EL

[dasfvzcx]

I found out about brfares.com through this forum and have been playing with it since!

I noticed today there's an Anytime Open Return from Bracknell to Hackney Downs including underground.

Am I right in thinking:
- this ticket is valid to start/end (return) at Reading, I'd think so as break of journey
- this ticket is valid to end/start (return) at Elizabeth Line stations Farringdon and Liverpool Street, I'd think so because that's kinda on way to Farringdon?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jun 2024 ==

The fare I'm looking at is £42.60

 

[jfollows]

Yes.

Tickets from Bracknell to Hackney Downs are routed via Ascot or Wokingham, and the fares check rule means that both of these are a valid route for "any permitted" tickets to London and Hackney Downs.

Wokingham to London has valid routes shown at https://data.atoc.org/routeing-maps

• WV
• WV + RG
• WX

and the second one of these is the route via Reading, the other two don't add anything to the route via Ascot anyway.

On an open return ticket you can break your journey as often as you want as long as you always make progress along its route. You can also start short and abandon part of your journey.

 

[30907]

As just stated, the routing is certainly permitted, and stopping/starting short is fine - I can get NRE to show it.

You might, though, encounter difficulties at Farringdon, despite the EL being part of National Rail, if you want to resume your journey towards LST and HAC. This is because TfL staff will follow the "tube" rule for cross-London journeys which doesn't allow break of journey*.

*it allows exiting en route but not re-entering. Fortunately, Farringdon is a recognised interchange with NR, which means your ticket should work the gates, saving you arguments

 

[dasfvzcx]

So I just tried it this morning.

The ticket doesn't show up on the ticket machines at Reading and the ticket office only finds the £42.50 off peak by default. The GWR app doesn't sell this fare, but does show it.

The ticket doesn't work at the barrier at Reading. Similarly at Elizabeth at Paddington (no barrier at NR at Paddington this morning as platform 8).

At Farringdon I had trouble with the staff, they first said no break of journey was allowed, then they said it wasn't valid on underground (to be fair, doesn't have Maltese cross) and that it's only valid for a "valid connection" (via Whitechapel) he said.

How do I prevent this issue in the future? I think they're incorrect, GWR shows a journey from Bracknell to Reading to Paddington to Liverpool Street (via Farringdon with Elizabeth Line), so this is a break/stopping short. What magic words do I say? Do I take a screenshot of the itinerary/route with ticket (which retailer will sell this ticket online?).

 

[Haywain]

How do I prevent this issue in the future?

If you are going to buy what is clearly a loophole ticket, you have to deal with the difficulties that go with it while it is available. I suspect that it won’t be available for too long now that you have highlighted it in several different ways, which will put an end to those difficulties.

 

[jfollows]

The ticket should be routed “+ANY PERMITTED” and have a Maltese Cross.

There is a cheaper “NOT VIA LONDON” ticket.

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

 

[dasfvzcx]

I did not get a "NOT VIA LONDON" ticket.

Is the little "dagger" a maltese cross? If so, I guess I should just point that out to the staff, though I guess they might still claim it was an "invalid connection"...

I have never seen it like that before. If not, what does it indicate?

 

[infobleep]

So I just tried it this morning.

The ticket doesn't show up on the ticket machines at Reading and the ticket office only finds the £42.50 off peak by default. The GWR app doesn't sell this fare, but does show it.

The ticket doesn't work at the barrier at Reading. Similarly at Elizabeth at Paddington (no barrier at NR at Paddington this morning as platform 8).

At Farringdon I had trouble with the staff, they first said no break of journey was allowed, then they said it wasn't valid on underground (to be fair, doesn't have Maltese cross) and that it's only valid for a "valid connection" (via Whitechapel) he said.

How do I prevent this issue in the future? I think they're incorrect, GWR shows a journey from Bracknell to Reading to Paddington to Liverpool Street (via Farringdon with Elizabeth Line), so this is a break/stopping short. What magic words do I say? Do I take a screenshot of the itinerary/route with ticket (which retailer will sell this ticket online?).

Could you alight at Liverpool Street instead, as that is the interchange point on your itinerary anyway? Would that help? I appreciate you shouldn't have to.

 

[jfollows]

Is the little "dagger" a maltese cross? If so, I guess I should just point that out to the staff, though I guess they might still claim it was an "invalid connection"...

I have never seen it like that before. If not, what does it indicate?

Yes, it's how it's printed sometimes. Presumably based on type of machine. In the same kind of way I typed "+ANY PERMITTED" with the "+" meaning Maltese Cross because I can't be bothered to work out how to do one properly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jun 2024 ==

I did not get a "NOT VIA LONDON" ticket.

No, I didn't think you did, and it's not immediately obvious how it could be used, but there's probably a way such as changing at Clapham Junction and going round the houses.

 

[dasfvzcx]

Could you alight at Liverpool Street instead, as that is the interchange point on your itinerary anyway? Would that help? I appreciate you shouldn't have to.

I could do that, but my work is nearer to Farringdon than Liverpool Street, so it provides a better break for me there. I would survive though.

Now I know the Maltese Cross is there, that would probably convinced the staff this morning anyway. I think they were mainly trying to justify why the machine was correct/I was incorrect (hence starting with talking about break, then about invalid connection/no Maltese Cross).

At the exit I take at Farringdon (the Barbican one) there is normally only one member of staff, if they don't agree, what would I do?

It is rather annoying that, even when not breaking/starting short the ticket doesn't work on an itinary it is sold one (from this morning, the Elizabeth Line barrier at Paddington). The staff are nice enough (even at Farringdon) but it is scaring people off for having perfectly valid tickets (I know from other threads that Paddington can be particularly bad).

 

[30907]

Now I know the Maltese Cross is there, that would probably convinced the staff this morning anyway. I think they were mainly trying to justify why the machine was correct/I was incorrect (hence starting with talking about break, then about invalid connection/no Maltese Cross).

At the exit I take at Farringdon (the Barbican one) there is normally only one member of staff, if they don't agree, what would I do?

Go on to Liverpool St and complain to TfL?

It is rather annoying that, even when not breaking/starting short the ticket doesn't work on an itinary it is sold one (from this morning, the Elizabeth Line barrier at Paddington). The staff are nice enough (even at Farringdon) but it is scaring people off for having perfectly valid tickets (I know from other threads that Paddington can be particularly bad).

I wonder whether it would also be rejected at the H and C? Not that you are obliged to try!
The problems at Padd are at the GW gateline

 

[LA50041]

I could do that, but my work is nearer to Farringdon than Liverpool Street, so it provides a better break for me there. I would survive though.

Now I know the Maltese Cross is there, that would probably convinced the staff this morning anyway. I think they were mainly trying to justify why the machine was correct/I was incorrect (hence starting with talking about break, then about invalid connection/no Maltese Cross).

At the exit I take at Farringdon (the Barbican one) there is normally only one member of staff, if they don't agree, what would I do?

if it's not too far out of your way, you would probably be OK using the Thameslink Gate line to break journey

 

[dasfvzcx]

Go on to Liverpool St and complain to TfL?

I wonder whether it would also be rejected at the H and C? Not that you are obliged to try!
The problems at Padd are at the GW gateline

I guess the former is annoying but possible yes.

I might try that one time I have more time!

One weird thing I just found is that I cannot even by this ticket from SWR, even though they're the fare setter! It seems Trainline will offer it when forced, but not sure whether it will actually work...

 

[bcarmicle]

I can get SWR to show this ticket if I search for a return, but not an open return.

 

[dasfvzcx]

I can get SWR to show this ticket if I search for a return, but not an open return.

I can get it to suggest it, see attached. For some reason, this time (or I guess last time I did something wrong), it will let me buy it.