Severn Tunnel Junction Car Park That Nobody Uses.

[Envoy]

I see that the new Severn Tunnel Junction car park has been a huge failure. How can they get things so wrong?

The huge, pristine car park built next to the M4 that nobody has ever used

The Welsh Government is really struggling to get traffic off the M4 after the decision to cancel the planned relief road

www.walesonline.co.uk

"Just off Station Road in the village of Rogiet in southeast Wales is a car park. As car parks go it is a stunner. Immaculate Tarmac, 172 perfectly-paved bays, 10 electric vehicle charging points (and space for 16 more), wide lanes, and lines so clean you would put your chewing gum back in your mouth if you dropped it on the floor".

 

[WoodHillsian]

I see that the new Severn Tunnel Junction car park has been a huge failure. How can they get things so wrong?

The huge, pristine car park built next to the M4 that nobody has ever used

The Welsh Government is really struggling to get traffic off the M4 after the decision to cancel the planned relief road

www.walesonline.co.uk

It could have been a great option as a Park and Ride for Cardiff for travellers from England - drive across the bridge, park there and avoid the M4 congestion. However, although it is close to the M4, it's neither signposted nor easy to get to - you have to go through narrow village streets. And when you get to the station the timetable is infrequent, erratic and unreliable. Most days there are just one or two cars in there.

 

[lachlan]

It could have been a great option as a Park and Ride for Cardiff for travellers from England - drive across the bridge, park there and avoid the M4 congestion. However, although it is close to the M4, it's neither signposted nor easy to get to - you have to go through narrow village streets. And when you get to the station the timetable is infrequent, erratic and unreliable. Most days there are just one or two cars in there.

Doesn't seem well thought out - they could upgrade and open the motorway junction beside Rogiet and upgrade the road tbetween Caldicot and the car park. Though that could backfire by making car journeys from Rogiet and Caldicot quicker, pulling people away from trains and encouraging more traffic.

As for pollution, by the time the relief road would have been finished were it not cancelled most cars would be electric so it's a bit of a moot point. The focus needs to be on getting people out of cars, not building more roads. Car parks are easy to build but more frequent services and new local stations will be far more effective.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

There’s no access from the new car park to the station, without walking over the narrow bridge and through the old car park. That feels like an error in of itself.

 

[Western 52]

You'd have thought the station footbridge would have been extended to the new car park. Too expensive maybe, but it would make the foot access easier and quicker.

 

[Dai Corner]

In their application to the ORR for an Open Access service between south Wales and Paddington Grand Union Trains say

As well as the service introduction, alongside developing plans by others, Grand Union will be investing
in infrastructure improvements by building a new parkway station at Felindre and investing in Severn
Tunnel Junction Station where we will increase parking, give direct access from the adjacent M4
motorway and improve passenger and staff facilities to a standard appropriate for use by Intercity trains.

So we'll have to wait and see whether the service and infrastructure materialise.

 

[Dr Day]

I'm guessing it was needed as an overflow to avoid people parking on nearby residential streets pre-Covid, or on the basis of demand projections made at the time the funding was committed, but as things have transpired working from home has taken the edge off the expected growth?

And when you get to the station the timetable is infrequent, erratic and unreliable

Absolutely. Significant gaps, particularly in the Gloucester direction. And depending on the Formation of the Day, often overcrowded peak GWR services. Combined with the Severn Bridges being generally free flowing and free.

A reliable, advertised direct GWR service to/from London would help considerably, with current uncertainty over whether the 0747 departure is real or not as different journey planners say different things. Grand Union's proposed London service will also be attractive.

 

[The Planner]

In their application to the ORR for an Open Access service between south Wales and Paddington Grand Union Trains say


So we'll have to wait and see whether the service and infrastructure materialise.

Like GUT will fund any work for a link to the M4.

 

[mrcheek]

and to think these people will be running the whole UK soon....

 

[geoffk]

I was last at STJ almost exactly a year ago and the old car park had few cars in it. I had to drive (at 20 mph) through village streets and nearly missed the turning as it was poorly signposted. I was only stopping for an hour or so and was able to park on street, avoiding both the parking charge (which wasn't there on my previous visit) and the "no waiting midday to 3 pm" restriction, something I had only seen in the London commuter area.

 

[Topological]

It could have been a great option as a Park and Ride for Cardiff for travellers from England - drive across the bridge, park there and avoid the M4 congestion. However, although it is close to the M4, it's neither signposted nor easy to get to - you have to go through narrow village streets. And when you get to the station the timetable is infrequent, erratic and unreliable. Most days there are just one or two cars in there.

Better than Pontypool and New Inn, where the new car park has no cars because they cannot open it yet.

Logic would dictate that the car park be connected to the M4. Logic and reality need not follow.

 

[swt_passenger]

There’s a 2023 closed thread on the same subject, I doubt anything has changed since then.

Severn Tunnel Junction - The Empty New Car Park. What can be done to improve things?

I read that Severn Tunnel Junction has a new car park that nobody is using. Last time I visited, the old car park was pretty full. I guess that this new car park is on the south side of the railway? If that is the case, then surely a direct new access road should have been provided from the M4...

www.railforums.co.uk

I reckon the linked news article in that thread’s first posts is almost identical to the latest one.

 

[bib]

It looks like the links to the M4 already exist but are not open to the public, I wonder if they don't meet the requirements for motorway slip roads or something along those lines, otherwise I'd have thought if they could afford to build the carpark they could afford to resurface the sliproads and put in a few signposts. Or maybe they just ran out of money, given they also didn't manage to extend the footbridge. Although it appears that M4 connection wasn't in the original plans.

Metro Plus: Severn Tunnel Junction Park and Ride - Cardiff Capital Region

Creation of an additional 150-200 space car park on the south side of Severn Tunnel Junction station and reconfiguration of the existing station car park to include additional bike & ride spaces, safer walking & cycling access, a revamped bus-rail interchange, EV charging spaces and improved...

www.cardiffcapitalregion.wales

 

[Western 52]

I think those roads were for works access. They don't look like they have long enough on and off slips for motorway speeds so would probably need a lot of expensive work to become a full junction.

 

[MrJeeves]

It looks like the links to the M4 already exist but are not open to the public,

These are actually the leftovers of the access for old M4 toll booths and associated operations centre, as well as works access as mentioned above.

 

[swt_passenger]

It looks like the links to the M4 already exist but are not open to the public, I wonder if they don't meet the requirements for motorway slip roads or something along those lines, otherwise I'd have thought if they could afford to build the carpark they could afford to resurface the sliproads and put in a few signposts. Or maybe they just ran out of money, given they also didn't manage to extend the footbridge. Although it appears that M4 connection wasn't in the original plans.

Metro Plus: Severn Tunnel Junction Park and Ride - Cardiff Capital Region

Creation of an additional 150-200 space car park on the south side of Severn Tunnel Junction station and reconfiguration of the existing station car park to include additional bike & ride spaces, safer walking & cycling access, a revamped bus-rail interchange, EV charging spaces and improved...

www.cardiffcapitalregion.wales

View attachment 160274

Eastbound is the former “authorised vehicles only” route for maintenance vehicles, and probably a police shortcut, as found all over the motorway network. Westbound is a conversion, it’s been built on the former toll plaza, but is now a ‘works unit’, you can see the previous set up if you rewind on Google Street view. I expect none of those roads meet the standards for normal public use.

 

[Western 52]

If that becomes a full junction, local roads may also need upgrading for the increased traffic as people take new routes off the motorway. Probably not a desired effect.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

If that becomes a full junction, local roads may also need upgrading for the increased traffic as people take new routes off the motorway. Probably not a desired effect.

There are plans, I think at the MCC level, to do this. Proposals have been made for a road around the bottom of Rogiet, starting between Caldicot and Rogiet. This is proposed a new M48 junction in the same location.

The associated news article is here

Monmouthshire council wants M48 Severn Tunnel Junction road​

MONMOUTHSHIRE council will continue to support a new motorway link to Severn Tunnel Junction, despite a Welsh Government-backed panel rejecting the plans.

The government's Roads Review has caused controversy in many parts of Wales in recent months, and a report by the review panel this month recommended axing dozens of new road projects nationwide because they were considered incompatible with net-zero climate goals.
In Gwent, most projects survived the review, including plans to improve access to Severn Tunnel Junction, one of the area's major railway stations.

There, the council and the Welsh Government want to improve road access and encourage more Severnside residents, including commuters to Bristol and Cardiff, to take the train rather than clog up the M4 around Newport.
The roads review panel largely accepted the scheme could help encourage people towards using public transport, but warned that building a new road connecting the station to the nearby M48 was unsuitable, given Welsh targets to reduce traffic emissions and achieve net-zero carbon by the year 2050.

 

[Envoy]

It is quite obvious to that a new M4 needs to be built south of Newport to avoid the choke point at the tunnel on one of the busiest sections. Yes, I am all for train travel and model shift but the plain fact is that both modes of transport are needed to enable the free movement of people and goods in and out of south Wales.

As people have stated above, the links to the new car park from both the M4 and M48 are pretty well non existent. If people do crawl through Rogiet & Magor to reach the new car park, they do not have a direct walkway to the platforms - hence this project is a total waste of money. Even the provision of trains is not very good. With 4 electrified tracks between STJ and Cardiff we have a situation where the 2 relief lines are barely used by passenger trains and just have the occasional freight train hauled by a diesel. If only the 4 tracks from Filton to Bristol Temple Meads were electrified, it would surely allow the operation of an electric all stops service on the relief lines? This would also benefit Bristol as well as south Wales.

I note that plans have been made for new stations at Cardiff East Parkway (St.Mellons), Tredegar Park (west Newport), Llanwern (east Newport), and Magor yet no progress has been made in even making a start on these. So, all talk and no action! Surely, rather than have the more expensive stations on all 4 tracks, it would be more cost effective to just have new stations on the relief lines and this would not entail the moving of any tracks?

The image below shows the situation on the M4 at Newport this afternoon:>

 

[zwk500]

As people have stated above, the links to the new car park from both the M4 and M48 are pretty well non existent. If people do crawl through Rogiet & Magor to reach the new car park, they do not have a direct walkway to the platforms - hence this project is a total waste of money.

The lack of a footbridge connection does seem to be very short-sighted, especially given the footway over the bridge is hardly a safe feeling.

Even the provision of trains is not very good. With 4 electrified tracks between STJ and Cardiff we have a situation where the 2 relief lines are barely used by passenger trains and just have the occasional freight train hauled by a diesel. If only the 4 tracks from Filton to Bristol Temple Meads were electrified, it would surely allow the operation of an electric all stops service on the relief lines? This would also benefit Bristol as well as south Wales.

At the moment, 'all stops' from STJ to Cardiff is Newport only... Also at the moment you have 2tph Bristol-Cardiff formed from the Taunton-Cardiff and Portsmouth-Cardiff services, so cutting the cross-Bristol connection will reduce connectivity.

I note that plans have been made for new stations at Cardiff East Parkway (St.Mellons), Tredegar Park (west Newport), Llanwern (east Newport), and Magor yet no progress has been made in even making a start on these. So, all talk and no action! Surely, rather than have the more expensive stations on all 4 tracks, it would be more cost effective to just have new stations on the relief lines and this would not entail the moving of any tracks?

These stations should have 4 platforms so that services are not cancelled outright if 2 tracks are closed for engineering works, IMHO.

 

[SWT_USER]

I see that the new Severn Tunnel Junction car park has been a huge failure. How can they get things so wrong?

The huge, pristine car park built next to the M4 that nobody has ever used

The Welsh Government is really struggling to get traffic off the M4 after the decision to cancel the planned relief road

www.walesonline.co.uk

Does anyone know if the electric car chargers are available (and if so, free)? They don't show up on Zap Map.

Never used the station but cheap/free charging could incentivise some commuters.

 

[John R]

These stations should have 4 platforms so that services are not cancelled outright if 2 tracks are closed for engineering works, IMHO.

If that doubles the cost I’d rather see no services on Sunday to allow for regular engineering work when commuter traffic is lower and there is less congestion on the M4. Or an acceptance that replacement buses will be needed. Putting in four platforms purely for engineering works would be grossly gold plating the project and the additional money spent would be better off improving provision elsewhere.

 

[HSTEd]

Can't help but feel that this rather sums up the problems in the railway today. Station with a large new car park but comparatively little actual service and no proper access route to the station from said car park.

 

[The Planner]

Can't help but feel that this rather sums up the problems in the railway today. Station with a large new car park but comparatively little actual service and no proper access route to the station from said car park.

Integration is the problem, my project is to provide a car park. the rest isn't my issue.

 

[oglord]

I note that plans have been made for new stations at Cardiff East Parkway (St.Mellons), Tredegar Park (west Newport), Llanwern (east Newport), and Magor yet no progress has been made in even making a start on these. So, all talk and no action! Surely, rather than have the more expensive stations on all 4 tracks, it would be more cost effective to just have new stations on the relief lines and this would not entail the moving of any tracks?

They are planned to be only on the relief lines. Unfortunately the relief lines change from paired by direction east of Bishton flyover, to paired by use to the west. This means that any station at Magor wouldn't need any track slewing because both relief lines are on the outside of the four-track layout, but anything to the west would require the DR moving south so that an island could be inserted between DR and UR.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

They are planned to be only on the relief lines. Unfortunately the relief lines change from paired by direction east of Bishton flyover, to paired by use to the west. This means that any station at Magor wouldn't need any track slewing because both relief lines are on the outside of the four-track layout, but anything to the west would require the DR moving south so that an island could be inserted between DR and UR.

Is it not more nuanced than that though? It feels like from Newport that there are only two running lines full stop, as even in disruption only the northern two seem to be used. I've considered opening a thread on the layout as a speculation topic as it does seem that it's actually only three tracks from Newport due to the yard to the west and Ebbw Vale trains are causing issues when there's disruption. Newport area track layout seems like the really problem, especially with Platforms 1 and 4 being treated as unstaffed

 

[oglord]

It feels like from Newport that there are only two running lines full stop, as even in disruption only the northern two seem to be used. I've considered opening a thread on the layout as a speculation topic as it does seem that it's actually only three tracks from Newport due to the yard to the west and Ebbw Vale trains are causing issues when there's disruption. Newport area track layout seems like the really problem, especially with Platforms 1 and 4 being treated as unstaffed

I don't know why that would be, given that all platforms are bidirectionally signalled. There are sufficient crossovers west of the tunnel and east of the Usk bridge to signal any line onto any platform. I've even seen 387s running on the relief lines and IETs over Bishton flyover.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

I don't know why that would be, given that all platforms are bidirectionally signalled. There are sufficient crossovers west of the tunnel and east of the Usk bridge to signal any line onto any platform. I've even seen 387s running on the relief lines and IETs over Bishton flyover.

I have to be honest I've not looked too deeply, just at things eh my train has been delayed on Opentraintimes.com diagrams.

They seem to have queued around the Newport tunnels rather than filtering into the station. My own hypothesis comes from 2 being West and 3 East at Newport so more so it's the central platforms that matter. I will reiterate it's how it looks rather than verified facf

 

[JamesT]

I thought when I saw the thread title it would be a car park that wasn’t usable, rather than one that’s merely a bit inconvenient.
Unlike this cracker in my neck of the woods https://uk.news.yahoo.com/park-and-ride-eynsham-uk-no-road-122151168.html
Where there’s no access to the car park because there are future plans to remodel the road next to it.

 

[Envoy]

I see that at Marshfield, a gap already exists between the 2 relief lines for an island platform. Presumably this is where the platform was in days of old? I really do wonder if it would be better to abandon the Cardiff East Parkway idea (with Business Park by a developer) near St.Mellons and just build an island platform at Marshfield on the reliefs? It certainly would be cheaper but you would need to bring a new road in from the St.Mellons area to avoid having large amounts of traffic going through Marshfield to such a station - which of course would also be used by people from Marshfield.