Whatever happened to meet the manager events ?

[yorksrob]

To echo what @yorkie says, I have some specific questions about local timetabling, route enhancements and fares that I would raise.

I would also raise the diabolical LNER fares pilot as well obviously, although this would be to register dissatisfaction.

 

[Horizon22]

To echo what @yorkie says, I have some specific questions about local timetabling, route enhancements and fares that I would raise.

I would also raise the diabolical LNER fares pilot as well obviously, although this would be to register dissatisfaction.

All valid points. I just question how much insight you'd get from such an event and how you might be left disappointed.

 

[yorksrob]

All valid points. I just question how much insight you'd get from such an event and how you might be left disappointed.

Well, as mentioned above, the last one I raised, they did take the question back and answer it, although yes, it did disappoint. It was an answer though.

On another level, such events do show a level of concern about passengers interests which isn't always apparent currently.

 

[Horizon22]

Well, as mentioned above, the last one I raised, they did take the question back and answer it, although yes, it did disappoint. It was an answer though.

On another level, such events do show a level of concern about passengers interests which isn't always apparent currently.

True. I'm just somewhat cynical they achieve that much, but I suppose if you can have a more in depth conversation with a subject matter expert, it may be helpful to you at least.

 

[yorksrob]

True. I'm just somewhat cynical they achieve that much, but I suppose if you can have a more in depth conversation with a subject matter expert, it may be helpful to you at least.

Indeed. I think it was on that occasion.

 

[12LDA28C]

Before the goings on of 2020, we used to have "meet the manager" events quite frequently at Leeds. These were generally well advertised and included representatives from LNER (or whatever version it was at the time), NR, Northern, TPE etc.

2020 seems a long time ago and whilst business might not exactly be booming, there are a lot of passengers now using the railway, however I've not noticed one of these for ages.

Will they ever happen again - and perhaps DfT ought to be represented as well in future.

They still happen regularly at Chiltern and are well publicised on the various social media channels.

 

[Egg Centric]

I wonder if the forum could host an AMA type event - it'd be a brave TOC that agreed to it but also a most illuminating and innovative thing to try.

 

[yorkie]

I wonder if the forum could host an AMA type event - it'd be a brave TOC that agreed to it but also a most illuminating and innovative thing to try.

It would need someone with the time and organisational skills to do it (any volunteers?), but it's probably a moot point, as I doubt they would do this as they would know the questions would be the sort that they really wouldn't want to answer.

I think we have to accept that the railway really isn't run for the needs of passengers, that flexibility and good value fares are going to continue to be withdrawn and undermined and that there are never going to be adequate safeguards in place to cover disruption, alleged invalid tickets, lack of facilities etc.

There isn't much point meeting managers because they are not going to feel able to give the honest answer that they aren't allowed to run the railway any other way, and that the DfT is behind all of the anti passenger initiatives that we see occurring on various TOCs these days.

That's the harsh reality, and we may as well accept that!

 

[yorksrob]

They still happen regularly at Chiltern and are well publicised on the various social media channels.

That's certainly good to know that some TOC's are persevering with it (I hope they had NR representation there as well ?).

Due to my location I don't often have cause to use Chiltern, but the occasions I have, I've found it positive.

 

[Horizon22]

There isn't much point meeting managers because they are not going to feel able to give the honest answer that they aren't allowed to run the railway any other way, and that the DfT is behind all of the anti passenger initiatives that we see occurring on various TOCs these days.

This was my point, just made more succinctly! You can have a fair back and forth but ultimately whilst some good work can be done, for broader changes & at the crux of many matters, most TOC manager's hands are tied and are the result of general government policies.

 

[yorksrob]

There isn't much point meeting managers because they are not going to feel able to give the honest answer that they aren't allowed to run the railway any other way, and that the DfT is behind all of the anti passenger initiatives that we see occurring on various TOCs these days.

That's the harsh reality, and we may as well accept that!

We'll have a new management of DfT to appeal to before too long. The manifesto doesn't look too promising but it will be worth a try I suppose.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jun 2024 ==

This was my point, just made more succinctly! You can have a fair back and forth but ultimately whilst some good work can be done, for broader changes & at the crux of many matters, most TOC manager's hands are tied and are the result of general government policies.

Yes, I'd still put forward my local timetabling/fares issues.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I know that things like fares structure were a lot simpler back in BR’s day but in my quite extensive experience as a Manager being met, most comments were about performance and crowding with another slug about rolling stock type (e.g. “I hate VEPs, why can’t we have CEPs on ‘my’ train; by the way, it’s always full and standing.”).
There were always a few like “Why don’t you electrify Edinburgh to Aberdeen” or “Why can’t trains run fast from ‘my’ station to Victoria (or wherever)”, but these were very much a minority.
As a management team we would always have a review meeting afterwards to sift out the helpful and deliverable suggestions.
I always regarded the sessions as being both useful and (for the passengers) cathartic. You’d often get people coming up to you on platforms or trains subsequently and asking how things were being taken forward.

 

[yorksrob]

(e.g. “I hate VEPs, why can’t we have CEPs on ‘my’ train; by the way, it’s

I preferred the VEP's myself, so I wish I'd been there to even out the score.

(Actually, I might have said "why can't we have more HAP's" instead).

 

[Dr Hoo]

I preferred the VEP's myself, so I wish I'd been there to even out the score.

(Actually, I might have said "why can't we have more HAP's" instead).

Arrgh! The good citizens of Thanet absolutely detested the HAPs and we had to promise to never send them down that way again.
(Mind you, I do remember sending 10-car EPB formations down there on Network Day but that’s another story… )

 

[yorksrob]

Arrgh! The good citizens of Thanet absolutely detested the HAPs and we had to promise to never send them down that way again.
(Mind you, I do remember sending 10-car EPB formations down there on Network Day but that’s another story… )

Ah, there's no accounting for taste (or lack thereof)!

EPB's didn't have loos, which must have been a pain - but weren't they mostly for day-trippers from London !

All those people complaining about HAP's/VEP's would be begging, grovelling on their knees to have them back if the alternative had been 142's or Northern 150's.

 

[Egg Centric]

I know that things like fares structure were a lot simpler back in BR’s day but in my quite extensive experience as a Manager being met, most comments were about performance and crowding with another slug about rolling stock type (e.g. “I hate VEPs, why can’t we have CEPs on ‘my’ train; by the way, it’s always full and standing.”).
There were always a few like “Why don’t you electrify Edinburgh to Aberdeen” or “Why can’t trains run fast from ‘my’ station to Victoria (or wherever)”, but these were very much a minority.
As a management team we would always have a review meeting afterwards to sift out the helpful and deliverable suggestions.
I always regarded the sessions as being both useful and (for the passengers) cathartic. You’d often get people coming up to you on platforms or trains subsequently and asking how things were being taken forward.

Can you give a couple of examples of helpful suggestions that made a difference?

 

[CyrusWuff]

They still happen regularly at Chiltern and are well publicised on the various social media channels.

Though long gone are the days of having the schedule (and, more importantly, responses to a selection of the points raised) published on the Chiltern website, alas.

 

[Russel]

I'm surprised these events happen at all for fear of the managers being lynched, given how the railway has deteriorated over the last few years.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

“I hate VEPs, why can’t we have CEPs on ‘my’ train; by the way, it’s always full and standing.”

Luv it ! Quite a few (punters) would contradict their own arguments. Remember one in the sub area, a lady was most adamant that 'her' train from xx inner sub station was 'always late, and what are you going to do about it?'.....'Madam, if you can provide me with the time of the train concerned and leave me a contact I will investigate and get back to you'......'Oh, I don't know...they're all late aren't they'....and off she trotted.
Another occasion whilst trying to deal with one persons (genuine) question, another 'gent' wouldn't stop butting in. His question being more important than anyone else's apparently. After several minutes another waiting passenger came to my rescue and dragged the former away, whilst telling him to let (me) answer peoples questions (in queue order). They were last seen vanishing in to the crowd still arguing.

 

[Trainman40083]

What makes you think, the managers want to meet their customers, or hear their complaints. If you don't put yourself in a position to hear, we'll, you don't have any complaints. There was an article in the paper a couple of weeks ago, highlighting how more and more businesses are introducing chatbots, and that way, the complaints go away. Even more important if you are measured on complaints.

 

[tram21]

NET Tram do semi-regular Meet-the-Manager events, but they never seem particularly popular

 

[yorksrob]

What makes you think, the managers want to meet their customers, or hear their complaints. If you don't put yourself in a position to hear, we'll, you don't have any complaints. There was an article in the paper a couple of weeks ago, highlighting how more and more businesses are introducing chatbots, and that way, the complaints go away. Even more important if you are measured on complaints.

That is a worrying trend. I suppose chat bots can sometimes sort out a simple query, but even then it's taking away someone's job.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

That is a worrying trend. I suppose chat bots can sometimes sort out a simple query, but even then it's taking away someone's job.

Although sometimes they can provide assistance when no one is avaliable (such as later in the night when most staff are asleep).

Most of the time the chat bots are much worse than the assistance a human could provide but they are at least something.

 

[yorksrob]

Although sometimes they can provide assistance when no one is avaliable (such as later in the night when most staff are asleep).

Most of the time the chat bots are much worse than the assistance a human could provide but they are at least something.

Most of the times I've used them, I've ended up being put through to a human being.

 

[jayah]

Although sometimes they can provide assistance when no one is avaliable (such as later in the night when most staff are asleep).

Most of the time the chat bots are much worse than the assistance a human could provide but they are at least something.

Chat bots are useful for navigating dense policies and producing a fast concise answer. Like a human they can also get it completely wrong, but that is largely a function of the source material they are given.

Most people think complaining is a waste of time and most of the time it is. The system is designed to make those accountable dodge responsibility and to avoid anyone in a position to improve the service even seeing constructive suggestions.

About a year ago I travelled from Plymouth changing at Bristol Parkway. As it was Sunday afternoon, the retail outlets at Plymouth were all closed. There was no catering onboard.

At Bristol Parkway it was the same. Despite numerous machines vending umbrellas and passport photos there was nothing to eat or drink except water from the sinks in the toilets.

I suggested they install a simple vending machine for drinks and snacks, but the stock answer came back about 'commercial feasibility' or such, so immaterial it wasn't even worth reading. Needless to say nothing has been done since.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

In my neck of the woods, as was, most MTM events were generally pretty quiet. One would get a few questions/complaints that required further investigation and an initial response within a given time frame, but for the most part, particularly in London, most people who wanted to chat were 'regulars', who seemed to just enjoy a chat, which was fair enough. It was a different kettle of fish however when a melt down was in progress (as per my comments up thread), when one would end up brain dead and knackered after a few hours. These occasions weren't MTM's though, but situations when all available (back office) Managers were required to be on the front line.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Can you give a couple of examples of helpful suggestions that made a difference?

It was often the slightly more subtle issues that were teased out. In Kent we became aware of a contra-peak 4-car service that was regularly overcrowded with students during term time (but hadn't really come to notice before) and were able to get it changed to 8-cars.

In Scotland it was pointed out that some Glasgow late afternoon suburban services on Fridays that ran as 3-car were overcrowded because of a trend for employers to have an earlier finish time on that day. We re-jigged the diagrams to strengthen a couple of earlier services but actually de-strengthen some 'high peak' services on Fridays only.

Somebody claimed that tickets were 'never checked' on their Strathclyde driver-only service and we discovered that there was a lacuna in the Ticket Examiner diagrams that did indeed leave 'their' train uncovered. We soon fixed that.

Sometimes it was a case of pointing out facilities that already existed. For example, someone complained about the queues to renew weekly season tickets on Monday mornings but hadn't realised that they could be ('continuously') renewed from Friday evenings. They were enlightened and we did a bit more publicity for the facility.

I'm surprised these events happen at all for fear of the managers being lynched, given how the railway has deteriorated over the last few years.

Being long retired I suppose that I am not necessarily aware of current passenger behaviour but back in the old days I've been out 'on the platform' in circumstances when thousands of people are being held up but never had any real problems. A bit of verbal abuse but nothing else.

What makes you think, the managers want to meet their customers, or hear their complaints.

We are regularly reminded on this forums how many rail staff are proud of their jobs and dedicated to providing high standards of customer service as a 'guard', booking clerk or whatever. What makes you think that many managers don't want to do the same? Throughout my career I often reflected that I first started responding to public complaints/comments as a CO1 (lowest grade clerk) but was still dealing with them as a Station Manager, Operations Manager, 'Head of ...’, Director and so on. They are great for keeping you grounded. Not only in the office but at a MTM session, on the platform, on the train, meeting with stakeholders, giving talks and hosting visits for local groups, schools, colleges, MPs, Ministers, journalists, etc.

Gotta keep out there!

 

[Whisky Papa]

A decade ago, our local station manager in West Yorkshire would have regular meetings, although I'm not 100% sure if these were just with 'friends of the station' groups or genuinely open. Although he was very customer focussed, and indeed lived locally and commuted by train, for these meetings he was adamant that 'I don't do timetables' which would obviously have frustrated some of the expectations of some of the posters above.

 

[Taunton]

A decade ago, our local station manager in West Yorkshire would have regular meetings

There was an article in a 1960s-70s Modern Railways about a management position, on the Southern Region Oxted lines and embracing seemingly many stations, which was fully 'out and about', meeting passengers, both at stations and in trains. Traditional railway management garb of the era, with a bowler hat. Much of the work inevitably covered both peaks. Possibly something of a trial the magazine was asked to cover. I wonder how long it lasted.

 

[CC 72100]

It was often the slightly more subtle issues that were teased out. In Kent we became aware of a contra-peak 4-car service that was regularly overcrowded with students during term time (but hadn't really come to notice before) and were able to get it changed to 8-cars.

In Scotland it was pointed out that some Glasgow late afternoon suburban services on Fridays that ran as 3-car were overcrowded because of a trend for employers to have an earlier finish time on that day. We re-jigged the diagrams to strengthen a couple of earlier services but actually de-strengthen some 'high peak' services on Fridays only.

Somebody claimed that tickets were 'never checked' on their Strathclyde driver-only service and we discovered that there was a lacuna in the Ticket Examiner diagrams that did indeed leave 'their' train uncovered. We soon fixed that.

Sometimes it was a case of pointing out facilities that already existed. For example, someone complained about the queues to renew weekly season tickets on Monday mornings but hadn't realised that they could be ('continuously') renewed from Friday evenings. They were enlightened and we did a bit more publicity for the facility.


Being long retired I suppose that I am not necessarily aware of current passenger behaviour but back in the old days I've been out 'on the platform' in circumstances when thousands of people are being held up but never had any real problems. A bit of verbal abuse but nothing else.


We are regularly reminded on this forums how many rail staff are proud of their jobs and dedicated to providing high standards of customer service as a 'guard', booking clerk or whatever. What makes you think that many managers don't want to do the same? Throughout my career I often reflected that I first started responding to public complaints/comments as a CO1 (lowest grade clerk) but was still dealing with them as a Station Manager, Operations Manager, 'Head of ..., Director and so on. They are great for keeping you grounded. Not only in the office but at a MTM session, on the platform, on the train, meeting with stakeholders, giving talks and hosting visits for local groups, schools, colleges, MPs, Ministers, journalists, etc.

Gotta keep out there!

Top post. Nobody is above dealing with customer service queries.

Sadly this forum is very anti-manager at time so the post you responded to doesn't surprise me at all.