so why is southern giving southeastern their 377/2s??

[LudwigTails]

does southeastern really need that desire need of units?? i am unsure does their electrostar fleet also runs the metro routes like the 465s. No matter the case (i think), as only recently they are opening tender for new trains to replace their 465 fleets. And so... why not order more trains at the same time and transfer some trains from metro usage to regional/similar routes that their electrostar fleets runs on?

Speaking of new trains, yea southern doesnt really get any. Can they really handle their routes with even the lack of /2s?? I know currently they are just used on mainly 3rd rail routes but that isnt important, the main point is that their electrostar fleet is already as thin as it can be. While yes, 387s are coming to cover 1 route of southern which is between BTN and SOU. Though (with current timetable) it only really just free out about 6-7 units (once the other 387 comes down from GN too). But even so its not all the 387/1 its only a few or to an extend only some will come over (unsure will the additional 387s be covering routes other than BTN - SOU as well). And what I assume (the same amount that would come over to southern anyway) is not even equal or more than the /2s they have. So if /2s are to be transferred to southeastern, its stretching their even thinner and lost of a couple more trains.
So with that, why is southern even giving away the /2s to southeastern? Again if already have tons of 375s and even 377/5s is that not enough to cover the entire of its routes?? Again southeastern is getting new trains so why cant they also order from that batch as well (heck even make a regional variant to boot might as well). So i'd say leave the /2s alone. If there is more of a official reason as to why its happening please do let me know.

 

[JonathanH]

The idea mentioned in other postings is that whatever 377s go from Southern to Southeastern, not necessarily the /2s, they receive at least as many 387s from the Great Northern operation displaced by 379s, so this isn't a case of Southern spreading its units thin as its overall fleet would not be reduced. This enables 465/9s to be withdrawn by Southeastern. The simple point appears to be that part of GTR's business case for using all 30 379s involves releasing part of their fleet.

If Southeastern can replace some of their Networkers by cascaded rolling stock on services to places like Tunbridge Wells which are not Metro services, it reduces the size of the potential replacement order for new rolling stock and would allow the specification of the replacement Metro stock to reflect Metro operation. It also means that part of that replacement happens sooner than waiting for new build.

387/1 deployment on Southern isn't yet clear in the public domain but it doesn't seem that it would only be Brighton to Southampton, not least as that only uses eight units.

By all accounts this isn't happening until next year in any case as the 379s arent ready.

 

[Farigiraf]

Again if already have tons of 375s and even 377/5s is that not enough to cover the entire of its routes??

Can't comment on Southern's situation but to answer the question, clearly not enough to run them on Victoria-Ashford and Victoria-Gillingham which should fall into the long(ish) distance category yet are still 465 operated very often.

 

[Minstral25]

Why would you send dual voltage units to SE 377/2, when only Southern have dual voltage routes? Surely more sense to send 377/1's

 

[LudwigTails]

387/1 deployment on Southern isn't yet clear in the public domain but it doesn't seem that it would only be Brighton to Southampton, not least as that only uses eight units.

Apart from BTN - SOU. I know another route that uses 387s too. That being the weekday (peak) service from London Bridge to Littlehampton (unsure is this service still exist since the timetable change). And if more 387 does come into Southern i do hope they operate more out of Victoria. (hell yesterday i even saw a 387 on a BTN to Seaford service for some reason. What happened to the /3s??). Its like southern needs more electrostar.

Why would you send dual voltage units to SE 377/2, when only Southern have dual voltage routes? Surely more sense to send 377/1's

Absolutely no idea. Or maybe like others have said it could be any 377s (not counting /6 or /7). sadly the /2 have been kicked out from doing the WCML - East Croydon Services cuz /7 kinda replaced them.

 

[JonathanH]

What happened to the /3s??).

They work London Bridge - Tulse Hill - Beckenham Junction / East Croydon in pairs, Redhill to Tonbridge and local services out of Brighton as single units.

sadly the /2 have been kicked out from doing the WCML - East Croydon Services cuz /7 kinda replaced them.

Why is that sad? It meant that formations could be increased from 4 to 5 coaches.

Its like southern needs more electrostar.

They are getting more electrostars with the extra 387s coming at some point for incremental enhancements. Southern don't need more units to run the current service.

And if more 387 does come into Southern i do hope they operate more out of Victoria. (hell yesterday i even saw a 387 on a BTN to Seaford service for some reason.

They now operate services from Brighton to both Coastways. Why do they need to operate more out of Victoria?

 

[Minstral25]

Apart from BTN - SOU. I know another route that uses 387s too. That being the weekday (peak) service from London Bridge to Littlehampton (unsure is this service still exist since the timetable change). And if more 387 does come into Southern i do hope they operate more out of Victoria. (hell yesterday i even saw a 387 on a BTN to Seaford service for some reason. What happened to the /3s??). Its like southern needs more electrostar.


Absolutely no idea. Or maybe like others have said it could be any 377s (not counting /6 or /7). sadly the /2 have been kicked out from doing the WCML - East Croydon Services cuz /7 kinda replaced them.

387s are apparently going to be used on Coastway if they come from GN when the 379s arrive. I think because they will use Lovers Walk depot in Brighton to be a maintenance focus both the GX fleet and the new one.

The 377/7 were specifically bought for the Watford route originally, as the 377/2s were for Thameslink (which has now gone entirely 700). Somehow that plan changed when they extended the Watford route to 8 car trains for a while but has now gone back to the old plan.

 

[westcoaster]

Why would you send dual voltage units to SE 377/2, when only Southern have dual voltage routes? Surely more sense to send 377/1's

Don't forget Southeastern have many 375 dual voltage units that have never run in AC. Is it the /6 varient.

Just looked on Wikipedia that says they have 30x375/6 dual voltage units.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Why is that sad? It meant that formations could be increased from 4 to 5 coaches.

A lot of the time they ran in pairs so it's actually a cut from 8 to 5 cars...

 

[JonathanH]

A lot of the time they ran in pairs so it's actually a cut from 8 to 5 cars...

They didn't run in pairs after the cut back to Watford Junction in May 2022.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

They didn't run in pairs after the cut back to Watford Junction in May 2022.

When was it they went to /7 operation? Was it May 2023?

 

[JonathanH]

When was it they went to /7 operation? Was it May 2023?

Yes, same time as Tulse Hill went 6-car (and originally between Summer 2014 and May 2018)

 

[LudwigTails]

They are getting more electrostars with the extra 387s coming at some point for incremental enhancements. Southern don't need more units to run the current service.

But they are also (planning) giving away (some) of their 377s to Southeastern, which kinda renders the 387s coming into their fleet as a same number of electrostars they have if not less with what they are given. And as i stated before that their fleet is already as thin as it could be.

They now operate services from Brighton to both Coastways. Why do they need to operate more out of Victoria?

This is more of a personal bias more than anything for this point, most of the time all i see are 387s more than 377s at brighton despite being one of their main terminus.
I am unsure will this ever happen because all of the 377 fleets are always playing "hot potato" as some might say so they move from depot to depot, why cant they do it with the 387s instead and unless they could be used to displace some route that suddenly have a train broken down and need a quick replacement might not that happen as well? Plus isnt more trains out of london the better?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jun 2024 ==

387s are apparently going to be used on Coastway if they come from GN when the 379s arrive. I think because they will use Lovers Walk depot in Brighton to be a maintenance focus both the GX fleet and the new one.

The 377/7 were specifically bought for the Watford route originally, as the 377/2s were for Thameslink (which has now gone entirely 700). Somehow that plan changed when they extended the Watford route to 8 car trains for a while but has now gone back to the old plan.

So they also displace the GX 387s that are currently running southern services?

 

[Energy]

But they are also (planning) giving away (some) of their 377s to Southeastern, which kinda renders the 387s coming into their fleet as a same number of electrostars they have if not less with what they are given. And as i stated before that their fleet is already as thin as it could be.

Slightly more 387s should be coming in than 377s going out. I'd expect an increase of 5-10 units depending on Great Northern's requirements.

Southern isn't going to get mountains of additional units that it doesn't need, the DfT (or Southern/GTR is it was a franchise) is unlikely to sign off unnecessary expenditure. Another electrostar shuffle is possible if they need more units in the future.

I am unsure will this ever happen because all of the 377 fleets are always playing "hot potato" as some might say so they move from depot to depot, why cant they do it with the 387s instead and unless they could be used to displace some route that suddenly have a train broken down and need a quick replacement might not that happen as well?

The 387s would be focused at Brighton, operating both Coastway services and the GatEx services.

It'll be interesting how they brand the 387s. Southern seems quite happy to use GatEx-branded units on the Coastway services but I doubt it would use Southern units on GatEx. Ideally, GatEx would be retired entirely and it would all become Southern...

 

[LudwigTails]

The 387s would be focused at Brighton, operating both Coastway services and the GatEx services.

It'll be interesting how they brand the 387s. Southern seems quite happy to use GatEx-branded units on the Coastway services but I doubt it would use Southern units on GatEx. Ideally, GatEx would be retired entirely and it would all become Southern...

suppose its time for me to take the coach to london instead of the trains then...
still dont know why they want to put 387s at brighton. hate those iron board seats. in terms of branding. I'd say there are 2 possibilities. Ethier paint them in Southern or i feel like in the most of cases, just not paint them in anything and just have southern logo and plain white.

 

[JonathanH]

suppose its time for me to take the coach to london instead of the trains then...

Why? What is your specific gripe?

 

[LudwigTails]

Why? What is your specific gripe?

If not the 377s. Most if not all of trains that comes in and out of Brighton are all going to be trains with iron board seats. I am one of those people who hates iron board seats.