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Why Does Cross Country Keep Having "Issues With Train Crew” on Nottingham to Cardiff?

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800001

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It's just RTT being RTT, as usual with this sort of thing. I really wish people didn't take it so literally. Cancelled due to inward stock being terminated at BHM.
However this morning even on departure from Nottingham the service was shown as running through to Cardiff.
So the OP had a valid question about the service!
Xc maybe should have shown that service as terminating at Birmingham before cancelling the service from Cardiff!
 
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Starmill

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Except they aren't - for example there is no southbound TfW service getting into Cardiff at a reasonable time in the morning peak, leaving commuters reliant on CrossCountry.

TfW don't seem to care about the route at all. Yesterday I was at Cardiff Central, service to Cheltenham arrived slightly late, we all got on, and ten minutes later were all turfed off so it could go to Maesteg instead, delaying everyone by over an hour. Unbelievable.

TfW are also planning to cut their services and get more of the CrossCountry services to call at all stops.

It seems neither operator gives two hoots about the route.
Bit of an odd way to look at it. There are arrivals in Cardiff at 0654, 0722, 0757 and 0910. Now, sure, maybe there could be an extra one at approximately 0840. It would have to squeeze in behind the 0648 London Paddington to Carmarthen, and have the 0642 from Frome to Cardiff Central following right behind. There's a risk of a conflict with a freight train if it used platform 1 at Newport and there's also no platform at Cardiff Central available for it to terminate at. An extra service could run just to Severn Tunnel Junction with the service from Frome as the connection, but that'd risk capacity being well short on that one, and wouldn't be much more convenient than just using the through CrossCountry prior.

I'm not sure I can understand why there's a problem with middle two being CrossCountry services as they serve all stations from Cheltenham Spa to Newport. Adding more TfW services probably wouldn't be a priority even if there were crew and units identified for it.
 
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Envoy

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I now see that the 8.08 from Nottingham to Cardiff has been cancelled between Birmingham & Cardiff (19 June 2024)- which means that the 11.45 from Cardiff to Nottingham also is cancelled. Really, this company needs investigating by the DfT. It's no good the DfT only being interested in anything that goes to London. These trains pass through Mark Harper territory (MP for Forest of Dean and Transport Secretary). Hmm..
 

Starmill

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I now see that the 8.08 from Nottingham to Cardiff has been cancelled between Birmingham & Cardiff (19 June 2024)- which means that the 11.45 from Cardiff to Nottingham also is cancelled. Really, this company needs investigating by the DfT. It's no good the DfT only being interested in anything that goes to London. These trains pass through Mark Harper territory (MP for Forest of Dean and Transport Secretary). Hmm..
Don't worry, he won't be a Minister for much longer. Likely he won't even become an MP again either.
 

WAB

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I suppose it’s entirely possible that XC may be generous employers in terms of pay, but they may be unwilling to train and employ sufficient drivers to meet the timetable needs. Elsewhere, I have read about their lack of appropriate stock, but that’s for another thread. The reality is - as with many other services - that there is insufficient incentive on them - and by that, I mean senior management - to deliver.
In fact, DfT have gone to a lot of effort to encourage operators to reduce establishments and optimise traincrew diagrams. Furthermore, the structure of the franchises and contracts incentivises this sort of penny pinching over performance.
 

dk1

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2004 or so I think it moved to being an hourly Central service. I remember catching an uncomfortably busy 158 on a Bridgend to Birmingham direct train shortly before then.

So a very short shelf life then for W&B. I recall Central running very occasional 10 or maybe even 12-car 158s for special/sporting events on that route.
 

Dr Day

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The basic problem between Cheltenham and Cardiff is that when resources are tight and something has to give both operators regard it as a low priority on the expectation that the other one will cover it.
 

louis97

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However this morning even on departure from Nottingham the service was shown as running through to Cardiff.
If you're referring to RTT, this is how the source of the data works, it won't show a train terminating at a location until it reaches that location. The rolling stock assignment will often give an indication though.

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Xc maybe should have shown that service as terminating at Birmingham before cancelling the service from Cardiff!
They did, it was messaged out at something like 2am this morning. RTT just didn't reflect it due to the above.
 

whoosh

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I thought that Cross Country had the highest paid drivers in the land? Surely plenty of people would like that job? Are they just reluctant to train people or what?
No, definitely not the highest paid drivers in the land. London Overground, Eurostar, Elizabeth Line, South Western Railway, C2C, LNER, and Transport for Wales are all on more.
 

800001

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If you're referring to RTT, this is how the source of the data works, it won't show a train terminating at a location until it reaches that location. The rolling stock assignment will often give an indication though.

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They did, it was messaged out at something like 2am this morning. RTT just didn't reflect it due to the above.
I stand corrected then.
 

Wyrleybart

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I suppose it’s entirely possible that XC may be generous employers in terms of pay, but they may be unwilling to train and employ sufficient drivers to meet the timetable needs. Elsewhere, I have read about their lack of appropriate stock, but that’s for another thread. The reality is - as with many other services - that there is insufficient incentive on them - and by that, I mean senior management - to deliver.
AIUI XC has just started training cohort No 18, with cohort 17 still in progress. and the Derby driver training school is running flat out. I don't think it is fair to state that XC are unwilling to train and employ sufficient drivers, "Sufficient" however, is not really quantifiable, as DfT "own" the timetable and specifiy it to XC to resource and run the service. This means that DfT pay XC to operate the service, and that has increased every few months from the start of the post pandemic arrangements. Given it takes around 18 months to get a driver basically trained then cohort No 19 might not be driving until winter of 2025
 

duffield

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AIUI XC has just started training cohort No 18, with cohort 17 still in progress. and the Derby driver training school is running flat out. I don't think it is fair to state that XC are unwilling to train and employ sufficient drivers, "Sufficient" however, is not really quantifiable, as DfT "own" the timetable and specifiy it to XC to resource and run the service. This means that DfT pay XC to operate the service, and that has increased every few months from the start of the post pandemic arrangements. Given it takes around 18 months to get a driver basically trained then cohort No 19 might not be driving until winter of 2025
Thanks for that, I (and a lot of other people I believe) had got the impression that as this has been going on for so many years, there was no prospect of any improvement and XC had just given up. It's good to hear some actual facts which show there is at least a prospect of improvement over the next year or so.
 

172007

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I thought that Cross Country had the highest paid drivers in the land? Surely plenty of people would like that job? Are they just reluctant to train people or what?
Money in not everything.

T&C's heavily sway against XC. Forced retirement at a set age (collective bargaining so is legal), moving of shift times and no fall back to depots or ticket offices for illness so it's straight to the dole queue.
 

Class 170101

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Seems like XC need to cancel the Birmingham to Nottingham service to release train crew to run Nottingham to Cardiff once per hour.
 

MCR247

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Seems like XC need to cancel the Birmingham to Nottingham service to release train crew to run Nottingham to Cardiff once per hour.
That happened only a year ago when one of New Streets platforms was shut. The hourly XC service that was left still wasn’t free from cancellations.
 

Signal_Box

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Alphaline was just a name given to class 158s routes that offered onboard phone, catering & air-conditioning. It was a Central Trains route.

Wales & West did operate to Birmingham NS, later as Wales & Borders until as last as 2003, they ran direct with Central Trains running via Worcester.

When Central Trains took over the service reverted to the direct route in the main.
 

vicbury

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Bit of an odd way to look at it. There are arrivals in Cardiff at 0654, 0722, 0757 and 0910. Now, sure, maybe there could be an extra one at approximately 0840. It would have to squeeze in behind the 0648 London Paddington to Carmarthen, and have the 0642 from Frome to Cardiff Central following right behind. There's a risk of a conflict with a freight train if it used platform 1 at Newport and there's also no platform at Cardiff Central available for it to terminate at. An extra service could run just to Severn Tunnel Junction with the service from Frome as the connection, but that'd risk capacity being well short on that one, and wouldn't be much more convenient than just using the through CrossCountry prior.

I'm not sure I can understand why there's a problem with middle two being CrossCountry services as they serve all stations from Cheltenham Spa to Newport. Adding more TfW services probably wouldn't be a priority even if there were crew and units identified for it.
Sorry if I made my point poorly, I was responding to another poster who stated that the TfW service is hourly, when during critical commuting times it is not.

This forces people onto the other shambles of a service that is CrossCountry, who this morning cancelled their 0757 arrival into Cardiff, leaving no reasonable commuting service from Gloucester, Lydney and Chepstow. Arriving at 0722 is too early for most commuters and arriving at 0910 is too late for most employers.

The situation is an utter disgrace and neither operator appears to care.
 

Envoy

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20/6/2024 The 8.45, 10.45, 13.45 & 14.45 departures from Cardiff to Birmingham & Nottingham are also cancelled as are the inbound services to Cardiff. So another day and an absolute shambles of a service. This either places extra loadings onto the TfW trains running on the Severnside Line or onto services requiring a change at Bristol Parkway. Chepstow & Lydney customers course can’t use the BPW route.
 

Starmill

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Sorry if I made my point poorly, I was responding to another poster who stated that the TfW service is hourly, when during critical commuting times it is not.

This forces people onto the other shambles of a service that is CrossCountry, who this morning cancelled their 0757 arrival into Cardiff, leaving no reasonable commuting service from Gloucester, Lydney and Chepstow. Arriving at 0722 is too early for most commuters and arriving at 0910 is too late for most employers.

The situation is an utter disgrace and neither operator appears to care.
I can understand how poor it is if that specific service isn't protected, agreed.
 

Cross City

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There is a 0746 from Cheltenham getting into Cardiff at just after 9am.
So not in time for a usual office work pattern then.

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Agreed, that the XC servcie on the BHM-CDF route is beyond rubbish.

I'd (selfishly) like to see GWR run a CDF-BPW-GCR-CNM-WOS-BMV-UNI-BHM route leaving XC to run faster BHM-WOP-CNM-BPW trains.
 
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Starmill

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I'd (selfishly) like to see GWR run a CDF-BPW-GCR-CNM-WOS-BMV-UNI-BHM route leaving XC to run faster BHM-WOP-CNM-BPW trains.
Via Gloucester and Worcester Shrub Hill? Sounds very slow. Also sounds likely to get caught in an awful lot of conflicts at Gloucester Yard Jn / Barnwood Jn, Worcester Shrub Hill platforms, Worcester Tunnel Jn and the Droitwich Spa - Stoke Works Jn section.
 

Envoy

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Now TfW have cancelled their 11.45 Cheltenham to Maesteg service. The next service from Cheltenham (dep 12.15) on this route is run by XC and is of course also cancelled (south of Birmingham).
 

fatone

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They simply cancel the Cardiff to release drivers for other routes. Cardiff has other services (Plymouth and tfw) whereas they're the sole operator on the derby and Leicester routes.

That's why Cardiff gets more than anything else
 

Cross City

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Via Gloucester and Worcester Shrub Hill? Sounds very slow. Also sounds likely to get caught in an awful lot of conflicts at Gloucester Yard Jn / Barnwood Jn, Worcester Shrub Hill platforms, Worcester Tunnel Jn and the Droitwich Spa - Stoke Works Jn section.

I'd rather routes like this run where people actually want to go. Nobody wan't to be dropped off in a field 5 miles from Worcester. Could also potentially go into Snow Hill via Kidderminster and SBJ.
 

WAB

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They simply cancel the Cardiff to release drivers for other routes. Cardiff has other services (Plymouth and tfw) whereas they're the sole operator on the derby and Leicester routes.

That's why Cardiff gets more than anything else
This is why TOCs need to ‘own’ routes - otherwise they just pass the buck and neither TOC provides much of a service.
 

Starmill

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I'd rather routes like this run where people actually want to go. Nobody wan't to be dropped off in a field 5 miles from Worcester. Could also potentially go into Snow Hill via Kidderminster and SBJ.
Sounds like it'd be even slower to me for any Cardiff - Birmingham passengers. It may be a bit more practical though, but I'd suggest still likely to need doubling at Abbotswood Junction and create a lot of performance risk at Gloucester and Worcester Shrub Hill.
 

dk1

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They simply cancel the Cardiff to release drivers for other routes. Cardiff has other services (Plymouth and tfw) whereas they're the sole operator on the derby and Leicester routes.

That's why Cardiff gets more than anything else

Passengers and many on here don’t want to hear that I know but it makes total sense.
 

ValleyLines142

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So not in time for a usual office work pattern then.

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Just outside of regular commuting hours, but there still isn't 100% return to office work post-COVID so doesn't make a difference.

Today, one of the TfWs was cancelled and there were no direct services for over 90 minutes at one point this morning.
 

Sly Old Fox

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First two Birmingham - Cardiff trains cancelled this morning too. It’s quite the sorry state of affairs, to the point I’ve started considering it a bit of a novelty to look at the departure boards at Gloucester and not see a cancelled XC service (it’s not happened for a long time).
 

Mag_seven

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I don't think we need a running commentary on what trains are being cancelled each day.

As regards to solutions to the problems that this (and other TOCs) are having with resources, they will probably have to wait until after the election.
 
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