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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

anamyd

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I travelled on 197046 last week, and whilst the air con and ventilation was running and maintaining a reasonable temperature, it sounded quite unhealthy.

Firstly, the overhead fans would blow for about ten seconds, cut out for three seconds, and then blow again. This continued for the entire journey.

Secondly, there was a loud motor, which I can only describe as sounding like an industrial lathe, spinning up and slowing down periodically underneath the floor.

Thirdly, the vibrations from the engine when idling were quite bad.

As an aside, what is with the ugly "food area" taking up so much space on a two car train?!
Though it's unavoidable on a 2-car 197 such as the one you were on (as it's in both vehicles), the "lathe sound" (whatever it is that makes it) is avoidable on a 3-car 197 if you go in the centre car, which doesn't seem to have it.
 
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BenBracken

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Had a spin out on the PD branch today. I asked the guard how the 197s were settling in, first thing she mentioned was the bad ride and how more difficult it was to walk up and down, especially out west. Surely TfW management must know about this issue if staff and passengers are complaining?
 

Anonymous10

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Had a spin out on the PD branch today. I asked the guard how the 197s were settling in, first thing she mentioned was the bad ride and how more difficult it was to walk up and down, especially out west. Surely TfW management must know about this issue if staff and passengers are complaining?
I was walking down the train on the branch and when we accelerated nearly fell over... that was an experience I don't wish to repeat.
 

RobK

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197006 & 197046 passed through Wolverhampton at 17:58 on 5Q55 Chester dmud to Birmingham New Street. A sign of things to come?
 

jamiearmley

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Had a spin out on the PD branch today. I asked the guard how the 197s were settling in, first thing she mentioned was the bad ride and how more difficult it was to walk up and down, especially out west. Surely TfW management must know about this issue if staff and passengers are complaining?
It will end up similar to us up North, with guards resorting to wearing supports due to pain in their legs and knees, but likely worse as there is more jointed track down that way.

It will also end up the same as us, with no one apparently willing to address the issue.
 

Lurcheroo

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Had a spin out on the PD branch today. I asked the guard how the 197s were settling in, first thing she mentioned was the bad ride and how more difficult it was to walk up and down, especially out west. Surely TfW management must know about this issue if staff and passengers are complaining?
It will also end up the same as us, with no one apparently willing to address the issue.
What would you like them to do about it ?
 

BillStampy

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153s and 150s are slipping up to Manchester at the moment, double 153s yesterday, today, a 150. 150251. Not good seeing how it forms the 1730 back around rush hour!!
 

jamiearmley

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What would you like them to do about it ?
Admitting that there - is / may be - an issue would be a good start. Ignoring the concerns of staff in any employment environment is unlikely to result in positive outcomes, whereas beginning a dialogue can often overcome many issues, even in cases like this where the root cause is unlikely to be resolved.
 

Jez

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153s and 150s are slipping up to Manchester at the moment, double 153s yesterday, today, a 150. 150251. Not good seeing how it forms the 1730 back around rush hour!!
Wow im surprised at that, especially the 150 going to Manchester. I thought they were effectively banned from long distance routes.

Are there just too many diagrams for the 197s given we are still 5 short (not including the Cambrian ones in that of course) and given most are booked for only 2 or 3 car as well when they should be 5 by now. And this is about six months after we were told that 150s would absolutely not be on Manchester services any longer!
 

craigybagel

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Wow im surprised at that, especially the 150 going to Manchester. I thought they were effectively banned from long distance routes.
It requires authorisation at a high level, but not completely barred as yet
And this is about six months after we were told that 150s would absolutely not be on Manchester services any longer!
Who told you they absolutely wouldn't be on Manchester services any more?
 

Jez

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It requires authorisation at a high level, but not completely barred as yet

Who told you they absolutely wouldn't be on Manchester services any more?
It was said on this forum. I dont have the threads/posts to hand but will have a look for them.

Edit - there are references on this thread from Dec 2022 https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...rk-4-sets-for-tfw.182406/page-58#post-5971965

I accept many things have changed since then but the general opinion back then was 150s would definately not be on Marches services a year later. There were lots of other mentions oft them not being on the route for much longer but i cant find every reference. Im sure it was mentioned in one of the railway magazines at that time too. Either way we are where we are. I just wish they wouldnt promise things they cant deliver.

Im more interested in knowing the reason why 197 availability is so poor that they have to use 150s on long distance services still. Have they taken on too many diagrams with the Pembroke's and Maesteg etc for the amount they have available.
 
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craigybagel

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It was said on this forum. I dont have the threads/posts to hand but will have a look for them.

Edit - there are references on this thread from Dec 2022 https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...rk-4-sets-for-tfw.182406/page-58#post-5971965

I accept many things have changed since then but the general opinion back then was 150s would definately not be on Marches services a year later. There were lots of other mentions oft them not being on the route for much longer but i cant find every reference. Im sure it was mentioned in one of the railway magazines at that time too. Either way we are where we are. I just wish they wouldnt promise things they cant deliver.

Im more interested in knowing the reason why 197 availability is so poor that they have to use 150s on long distance services still. Have they taken on too many diagrams with the Pembroke's and Maesteg etc for the amount they have available.
As per my post back then, "much longer". Nobody said in stone it would be definitely within a year. And the one that went up today was the first in a long time. Yes the project is taking longer than expected, no people including those of us working the route aren't particularly happy about it, but it's really not the end of the world.
 

Anonymous10

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Is the 0900 from milford Haven diagrammed a 2, 3 or 4 coach formation. Previously common to be a 3 now it's 4 and sometimes 2. Just wondering
 

sd0733

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Im more interested in knowing the reason why 197 availability is so poor that they have to use 150s on long distance services still. Have they taken on too many diagrams with the Pembroke's and Maesteg etc for the amount they have avavailable.
Theres currently 41 diagrams for the 51 accepted units so on paper they should be able to cover that comfortably. 10 units on planned and unplanned maintenance, tyre turning and/or exams should be doable.
Most seemed to start the day with 1 158 covering an entire diagram and a couple of 3 cars covering for pairs of 2s but a couple of units have fallen by the wayside over the day.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Is the 0900 from milford Haven diagrammed a 2, 3 or 4 coach formation. Previously common to be a 3 now it's 4 and sometimes 2. Just wondering
Its booked a 4 car.
 

Jez

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As per my post back then, "much longer". Nobody said in stone it would be definitely within a year. And the one that went up today was the first in a long time. Yes the project is taking longer than expected, no people including those of us working the route aren't particularly happy about it, but it's really not the end of the world.
I would say 18 months later is a bit longer than 'not much longer' but I accept your point and it isn't that big a deal..I was just surprised as I thought 150s were done with the Marches.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Theres currently 41 diagrams for the 51 accepted units so on paper they should be able to cover that comfortably. 10 units on planned and unplanned maintenance, tyre turning and/or exams should be doable.
Most seemed to start the day with 1 158 covering an entire diagram and a couple of 3 cars covering for pairs of 2s but a couple of units have fallen by the wayside over the day.
Thanks for the info. I guess there must be quite a few out of service if they have to resort to a 150 covering.
 

Scotrail314209

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Hi. Travelling on the 1310 from Crewe to Cardiff on Sunday (1230 ex Manchester Piccadilly I think). Does this normally produce a 2 or 3 car 197? Or is it a double set?
 

BillStampy

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Hi. Travelling on the 1310 from Crewe to Cardiff on Sunday (1230 ex Manchester Piccadilly I think). Does this normally produce a 2 or 3 car 197? Or is it a double set?
From my own knowledge, it's a 2 or 3 car 197 normally. Don't think it's any more than that!
 

Bikeman78

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It was said on this forum. I dont have the threads/posts to hand but will have a look for them.

Edit - there are references on this thread from Dec 2022 https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...rk-4-sets-for-tfw.182406/page-58#post-5971965

I accept many things have changed since then but the general opinion back then was 150s would definately not be on Marches services a year later. There were lots of other mentions oft them not being on the route for much longer but i cant find every reference. Im sure it was mentioned in one of the railway magazines at that time too. Either way we are where we are. I just wish they wouldnt promise things they cant deliver.

Im more interested in knowing the reason why 197 availability is so poor that they have to use 150s on long distance services still. Have they taken on too many diagrams with the Pembroke's and Maesteg etc for the amount they have available.
By my reckoning, the last 150 to Piccadilly before today was on May 12th.
 

craigybagel

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I would say 18 months later is a bit longer than 'not much longer' but I accept your point and it isn't that big a deal..I was just surprised as I thought 150s were done with the Marches.
By my reckoning, the last 150 to Piccadilly before today was on May 12th.
We're at the point that neither 150 nor 153 are booked on any Manchester services - and the former can only be substituted with special authorisation. We're in touching distance of an all 197 & MKIV service. It would be nice to be all the way, but we're a lot closer than last year's low point.
 

Bikeman78

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We're at the point that neither 150 nor 153 are booked on any Manchester services - and the former can only be substituted with special authorisation. We're in touching distance of an all 197 & MKIV service. It would be nice to be all the way, but we're a lot closer than last year's low point.
To give this some context, 28 of the active fleet of 34 150s made it to Manchester in January this year. So yes, the 197 situation is clearly a lot better now.
 

Anonymous10

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Theres currently 41 diagrams for the 51 accepted units so on paper they should be able to cover that comfortably. 10 units on planned and unplanned maintenance, tyre turning and/or exams should be doable.
Most seemed to start the day with 1 158 covering an entire diagram and a couple of 3 cars covering for pairs of 2s but a couple of units have fallen by the wayside over the day.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


Its booked a 4 car.
Thanks, great news for leg 1 of my trip to tankfest next Thursday, if only the portsmouth train from Cardiff was the same luxury, for lack of a better word.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

153s and 150s are slipping up to Manchester at the moment, double 153s yesterday, today, a 150. 150251. Not good seeing how it forms the 1730 back around rush hour!!
150258 is on this diagram today, likely a good reason but a shame that it isn't being swapped with one of the units operating to Pembroke dock to keep the 150s on shorter workings.
 
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BenBracken

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West Wales services seem to be fairly consistently 197 operation now, with the odd exception. Where have the 15x units they have replaced gone? Have any gone back to the leasing company or are they running elsewhere? Have any 158s been freed up now and are they being used to support Cambrian services or being used as backup units in case of failure?
 

Anonymous10

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West Wales services seem to be fairly consistently 197 operation now, with the odd exception. Where have the 15x units they have replaced gone? Have any gone back to the leasing company or are they running elsewhere? Have any 158s been freed up now and are they being used to support Cambrian services or being used as backup units in case of failure?
The 150s and 153s are now being used on the Cheltenham/ Ebbw/ Maesteg services as well as CVL enhancements. Penarth - Caerphilly being a common allocation I believe.
 

Lurcheroo

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Sorry guys, going to run back a ‘classic’ with this.
It’s by no means roasting outside but the sun is shining and it’s warm.
How are people fishing the aircon ?
The 158’s on the Cambrian, as usual, are roasting even in this weather.
 

BillStampy

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West Wales services seem to be fairly consistently 197 operation now, with the odd exception. Where have the 15x units they have replaced gone? Have any gone back to the leasing company or are they running elsewhere? Have any 158s been freed up now and are they being used to support Cambrian services or being used as backup units in case of failure?
158s will almost always slip south to Cardiff, the late Shrewsbury to Cardiff normally is one, but it is regularly thrown back North on a Holyhead diagram. The 15x fleet have moved back to take a 197 off of Ebbw Vale, Cheltenham/Maesteg to allow that freed up 197 to head on the next 197 booked services.
 

sd0733

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158s will almost always slip south to Cardiff, the late Shrewsbury to Cardiff normally is one, but it is regularly thrown back North on a Holyhead
That's exactly the plan. It heads down on the 23:09 from Shrewsbury then goes back out for the 09:22/19:34 Holyheads the next day.
 

Nick Ashwell

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Sorry guys, going to run back a ‘classic’ with this.
It’s by no means roasting outside but the sun is shining and it’s warm.
How are people fishing the aircon ?
The 158’s on the Cambrian, as usual, are roasting even in this weather.
As someone who wants to criticise the 197s normally I've been happy with their air con the last couple of days.

It's definitely feeling cooler inside, I wonder if they changed a setting. Someone more in the know can answer that though.

I could still complain about the ride today but they've definitely changed something to make them more comfortable
 

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