South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Pat Figg]

Also a bit of an issue in you want to get to Cardiff Bay, are they running extra shuttles?

I think the cancelled Ponty to Cardiff Bay services are running just from Queen St to the Bay instead so don't think that's affected.

They've run one replacement shuttle yes, but more intriguingly they've run a special working Cardiff Central - Pontypridd and back described in RTT as ECS (empty coaching stock). More testing going on?

When my train passed through Ponty at 7:19 this morning, Platform 1, which normally has the Bay train, was occupied by a 756 instead. Some people probably thought they were having a fancy new train down to the Bay until they realised it wasn't in passenger service. Actually, on reflection there didn't seem to be the usual mass exodus to cross to that platform so most people must have realised there wasn't a Bay train there to get on. Was probably announced by the guard but I was listening to music so didn't hear (I now go to Danescourt rather than Llandaf since the timetable change so don't need to change trains). Looking at RealTimeTrains now it seems that the cancelled Ponty-Cardiff Bay services are all being replaced by empty test trains going to Central round the City Line instead. I understand they need to test these trains but wouldn't it make more sense to do it at quieter times of the day rather than disrupting the peak period? I suppose they've got their reasons?

 

[Envoy]

I thought they could not increase the frequency of trains on The City Line through west Cardiff to more than 2 per hour due to a choke point at Cardiff West junction near the Canton depot. That being the case, how come they can manage to fit in these extra test train runs today?

 

[Pat Figg]

I thought they could not increase the frequency of trains on The City Line through west Cardiff to more than 2 per hour due to a choke point at Cardiff West junction near the Canton depot. That being the case, how come they can manage to fit in these extra test train runs today?

Perhaps they were able to fit it in as it was only running 5 minutes behind the train from Aberdare? Perhaps running 4 trains an hour at approximately 15 minute intervals wouldn't be possible?

 

[AdamWW]

I see that since yesterday, and for the rest of this week, TfW have cancelled at least half of the direct morning peak Pontypridd to Cardiff Bay services. This means passengers using the Aberdare line to get to Llandaf, Cathays and Queen Street now face a choice of changing at Abercynon or Ponty (or anywhere down to Radyr really) and waiting between 15-20 minutes for the next service from Merthyr or staying on and going the long way round. Not much of an issue if going to Queen Street but this is a real hassle, especially if going to Llandaf. As far as I can tell there is no mention of this in the 'Planned Alterations' on the website and therefore many passengers aren't aware that their normal 5 minute change at Ponty isn't always going to be an option at the moment.

It seems a bit mean to me to tell people not to worry about the new timetable because there will be a 5 minute connection....then not just cancel the trains they need to do that but temporarily remove them from the timetable completely so that it's harder to see what's happened and there isn't even a disruption warning (also presumably it makes it harder to successfully claim Delay Repay).

I was waiting for this to happen (as in other ways they are the obvious trains to cancel if they need to reduce services) and was hoping I was wrong.

 

[Pat Figg]

Yes, I can imagine this happening quite often when they're short of trains and/or crew. It'll be the Ponty to Cardiff Bay trains that will get withdrawn. Passengers on the Aberdare line seem to have drawn the short straw. It's adding at least 15-20 minutes to the Aberdare-Llandaf journey and most people will be doing it in both directions in the same day. Some people without a flexible option might find themselves having to catch earlier trains.

 

[Signal_Box]

I thought they could not increase the frequency of trains on The City Line through west Cardiff to more than 2 per hour due to a choke point at Cardiff West junction near the Canton depot. That being the case, how come they can manage to fit in these extra test train runs today?

Essentially the UP and DN trains are timed to use a single (very short) section of train between Radyr Branch Junc and Cardiff West to allow a non conflicting move which would effect P4 on the mainline side. If either train is more than 2 minutes late one or the other (usually the Cardiff bound train) will be regulated to allow the Radyr bound to clear central platforms.

How addtional trains are run without causing delay is down to the signaller on duty doing their best which is the overall theme of the new timetable.

 

[AdamWW]

Yes, I can imagine this happening quite often when they're short of trains and/or crew. It'll be the Ponty to Cardiff Bay trains that will get withdrawn. Passengers on the Aberdare line seem to have drawn the short straw. It's adding at least 15-20 minutes to the Aberdare-Llandaf journey and most people will be doing it in both directions in the same day. Some people without a flexible option might find themselves having to catch earlier trains.

Does anyone know - is there a technical reason that trains can't be cancelled days in advance and have to just be removed from the timetable?

From a passenger's (or at least my) point of view a train showing as cancelled is much better than having it mysteriously vanishing from the timetable - not least that cancelled trains will show up as a problem on journeycheck and trigger disruption alerts.

 

[Signal_Box]

Yes, I can imagine this happening quite often when they're short of trains and/or crew. It'll be the Ponty to Cardiff Bay trains that will get withdrawn. Passengers on the Aberdare line seem to have drawn the short straw. It's adding at least 15-20 minutes to the Aberdare-Llandaf journey and most people will be doing it in both directions in the same day. Some people without a flexible option might find themselves having to catch earlier trains.

The withdrawal of the bay service is common to try and protect the mainline service to Pontypridd since the new timetable.

 

[AdamWW]

How addtional trains are run without causing delay is down to the signaller on duty doing their best which is the overall theme of the new timetable.

But TfW said on Twitter that the recent disruption is completely unrelated to the new timeable...

 

[Signal_Box]

But TfW said on Twitter that the recent disruption is completely unrelated to the new timeable...

Well they know best.

 

[Western 52]

The withdrawal of the bay service is common to try and protect the mainline service to Pontypridd since the new timetable.

If this is common you have to ask whether TfW have enough resources in place to operate the new timetable. Maybe we know the answer...

 

[WoodHillsian]

I haven't seen any train on the Cwmbargoed line for several months now - the rails are rusty and there's a lot of vegetation growing in the trackbed. Is this just going to be left to rot, or is there an outside chance of a passenger service to Nelson and Bedlinog one day?

There was talk at one point of a park and ride, but I haven't seen anything about it recently.

 

[John R]

I haven't seen any train on the Cwmbargoed line for several months now - the rails are rusty and there's a lot of vegetation growing in the trackbed. Is this just going to be left to rot, or is there an outside chance of a passenger service to Nelson and Bedlinog one day?

There was talk at one point of a park and ride, but I haven't seen anything about it recently.

Given the opencast site it served closed several months ago, then if there are any future trains they will be very limited, and it is only a matter of time before the line is closed. I can't see it getting any passenger use - it's going to take long enough to get the existing extension aspirations to Hirwaun and Abertillery open given budget constraints (if they ever happen).

 

[MikePJ]

I haven't seen any train on the Cwmbargoed line for several months now - the rails are rusty and there's a lot of vegetation growing in the trackbed. Is this just going to be left to rot, or is there an outside chance of a passenger service to Nelson and Bedlinog one day? There was talk at one point of a park and ride, but I haven't seen anything about it recently.

There's no mention of the Cwmbargoed line anywhere in TfW's rather speculative "future developments" section of the Metro website (https://tfw.wales/projects/metro/future-developments/south-wales) so it seems unlikely that anything will happen soon.

 

[Signal_Box]

I haven't seen any train on the Cwmbargoed line for several months now - the rails are rusty and there's a lot of vegetation growing in the trackbed. Is this just going to be left to rot, or is there an outside chance of a passenger service to Nelson and Bedlinog one day? There was talk at one point of a park and ride, but I haven't seen anything about it recently.

Essentially closed for ever now, the points at the bottom have been locked out of us and disconnected. Maintenance is still carried out though weekly as before.

 

[BillStampy]

Essentially closed for ever now, the points at the bottom have been locked out of us and disconnected. Maintenance is still carried out though weekly as before.

Sad to see it simply slip straight out of use, seeing how some views from the line are pretty beautiful.

 

[Dai Corner]

Sad to see it simply slip straight out of use, seeing how some views from the line are pretty beautiful.

Anyone fancy running it as a heritage line?

 

[John R]

Anyone fancy running it as a heritage line?

Far too many already, many of which are struggling financially.

 

[5021]

Essentially closed for ever now, the points at the bottom have been locked out of us and disconnected. Maintenance is still carried out though weekly as before.

Any idea how much the weekly maintenance includes please? I would guess it's fairly minimal!

 

[Signal_Box]

Any idea how much the weekly maintenance includes please? I would guess it's fairly minimal!

Enough to keep it operationally available should it be required. A large portion was rerailed only about 18 months ago.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

There's no mention of the Cwmbargoed line anywhere in TfW's rather speculative "future developments" section of the Metro website (https://tfw.wales/projects/metro/future-developments/south-wales) so it seems unlikely that anything will happen soon.

IIRC when the Metro was just a gleam in Prof. Barry's eye there was some talk of "a circle line for the valleys" that would use the branch to reach Nelson and then extend to join the Merthyr line near Treharris. I think the idea was dropped pretty quickly.

 

[Western 52]

I've noticed that the Aberdare to Merthyr services which run via Cardiff are now class 1. Valleys services have usually been class 2. Anyone know why they are now class 1?

 

[Krokodil]

Perhaps to avoid misroutings?

 

[Dai Corner]

Perhaps to avoid misroutings?

I'm sure that's the reason. I seem to remember the Treherbert-Central trains via the City Line were class 1 too.

 

[Signal_Box]

I've noticed that the Aberdare to Merthyr services which run via Cardiff are now class 1. Valleys services have usually been class 2. Anyone know why they are now class 1?

To allow signallers easier “at a glance” identification that the 1M** and 1A** are circular services.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jun 2024 ==

Perhaps to avoid misroutings?

The new timetable has introduced more valley and mainline heads which are very similar including the 1M** services which clash with 1M** XC services on the mainline.

 

[Tumbleweed]

IIRC when the Metro was just a gleam in Prof. Barry's eye there was some talk of "a circle line for the valleys" that would use the branch to reach Nelson and then extend to join the Merthyr line near Treharris. I think the idea was dropped pretty quickly.

Hopefully the line will be 'mothballed' for future use and protected from development or being turned into a 'temporary cycle route'......

 

[Signal_Box]

I really can’t see anymore investment being made after the current works are complete, let’s be honest if it wasn’t for the EU funding we’d still have the same network and rolling stock we had prior to 2018.

Talk of new lines, even on existing mothballed lines is nothing but fantasy. There is simply no money left in the piggy bank, when there are demands for a very limited and getting smaller pot of money from education and health, railways that only a small proportion of the population use is going to be very very limited.

What we’re seeing now is the same cycle that we saw in the late 80, early 90s with the introduction of the sprinter fleet and opening on the City and Swankine stations.

But this time it’s been done on the cheap, and with huge future growth resistance built in for added future growth retardation.

The future is private transport, and road charging just to plug the hole in critical public service funding.

 

[S-Bahn]

I haven't seen any train on the Cwmbargoed line for several months now - the rails are rusty and there's a lot of vegetation growing in the trackbed. Is this just going to be left to rot, or is there an outside chance of a passenger service to Nelson and Bedlinog one day? There was talk at one point of a park and ride, but I haven't seen anything about it recently.

I would have posted this in the "South Wales Metro - Future" discussion in the Speculative Discussion section of the forum but that's closed for further replies.

I agree. Adding new/reopening stations on the existing/mothballed tracks in the Valleys should be the real priority for the Metro and not on-street sections in Cardiff.

 

[Signal_Box]

I agree. Adding new/reopening stations on the existing/mothballed tracks in the Valleys should be the real priority for the Metro and not on-street sections in Cardiff.

Indeed, stations on rhe mainline between Cardiff and Pontyclun with direct road access to the local trunk routes should be a priority. Unlike Severn Tunnel Junction - a huge lost opportunity to hover up new local traffic.

Makes me wonder why tfw don’t introduce something similar like the old metropolitan railway did back in the 19th century, reduced season tickets aimed at all the new houses being built around the region.

 

[Dai Corner]

Indeed, stations on rhe mainline between Cardiff and Pontyclun with direct road access to the local trunk routes should be a priority. Unlike Severn Tunnel Junction - a huge lost opportunity to hover up new local traffic.

Makes me wonder why tfw don’t introduce something similar like the old metropolitan railway did back in the 19th century, reduced season tickets aimed at all the new houses being built around the region.

Trouble is that even if motorists were inclined/incentivised to park up and take the train onward there probably aren't enough empty seats to make a significant difference to the road traffic. The Councils could have made the builders and house buyers pay for some more units, platform lengthening and station car park extensions via Section 106 agreements as the planners call them but didn't as far as I know.