Proposed Transdev X41/X43 Changes within Manchester

[Deerfold]

There’s always the tram for those eventualities, with the trams at a 12 min headway from Shudehill to Piccadilly.

A shame there's no through ticketing.

 

[Tetchytyke]

A shame there's no through ticketing.

True, but a single in the city zone is only £1.40.

 

[Deerfold]

True, but a single in the city zone is only £1.40.

And the bus is only £2.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I can’t imagine that would be a particularly big market, as you’d buy a through rail ticket in those situations. From the M65 corridor its usually quicker to go via Preston if you’re connecting into long distance services on the train.

Most people on the bus will be going to Manchester. With Shudehill you get reliable timing and a nicer place to wait, but the flip side is it’s quite the walk to a lot of the commercial offices areas around St Peter’s Square.

I don't know how much you know East Lancs, but the current Blackburn to Kirkby rounders cannot be relied on for a start of a journey where there are connections, whereas the buses are a lot more frequent and can be trusted to arrive no more than 30 mins late max, usually.

Via Preston is a bit better, but again there are a lot of destinations with more direct trains from Manchester.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't know how much you know East Lancs, but the current Blackburn to Kirkby rounders cannot be relied on for a start of a journey where there are connections, whereas the buses are a lot more frequent and can be trusted to arrive no more than 30 mins late max, usually.

As well as timing, my point is also that if you were travelling long distance by train you’d start with the train. You mention delays- even with split tickets, if a train is delayed it’s a railway problem. But if the bus is late it’s a you problem. For expensive long-distance travel you have to take that into account with timing.

Manchester will be the main traffic draw for the X43. Shudehill is definitely a compromise. More reliable timings, no sitting in a traffic jam, and a much nicer place to wait for your bus, but unless you’re going to Printworks or Arndale it’s a longer walk, the faff of the free bus, or the cost of the tram.

 

[AlastairFraser]

As well as timing, my point is also that if you were travelling long distance by train you’d start with the train. You mention delays- even with split tickets, if a train is delayed it’s a railway problem. But if the bus is late it’s a you problem. For expensive long-distance travel you have to take that into account with timing.

Manchester will be the main traffic draw for the X43. Shudehill is definitely a compromise. More reliable timings, no sitting in a traffic jam, and a much nicer place to wait for your bus, but unless you’re going to Printworks or Arndale it’s a longer walk, the faff of the free bus, or the cost of the tram.

The through ticketing is a decent advantage, I'll give you that.
But the frequency disparity significantly compensates.

Shudehill is a good place to serve as one of the stops - agreed on that, I just don't get why they don't bother with the 5 mins on to Picc Gardens. It isn't horrifically congested like Deansgate or any of the roads in that area.

 

[SeanM1997]

The X41/X43 are a useful link from Kersal, Higher Broughton and residents north of Manchester City Centre to access Piccadilly Station. This will be a valuable link lost if cut back and may reduce access to jobs or travel heading south.

Also, at the moment by terminating at Chorlton Street, the service provides a useful link to the Gay Village - for residents in North Manchester but also to communities in Lancashire. For a number of people, this may be their only space they feel safe and/or supported, so losing this link (even if still connected to Manchester) may provide disruption and potential harm to a vulnerable community.

How this is overcome could be difficult - ideally I would like to see the service terminate at Piccadilly Gardens by using Great Ancoats Street as a compromise

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also, at the moment by terminating at Chorlton Street, the service provides a useful link to the Gay Village - for residents in North Manchester but also to communities in Lancashire. For a number of people, this may be their only space they feel safe and/or supported, so losing this link (even if still connected to Manchester) may provide disruption and potential harm to a vulnerable community.

No, it won't do anything of the sort. Manchester city centre is compact and walkable/wheelable. People will not decide they can't reach the Village simply because they need to take a five-minute walk across Manchester.

It might be annoying (similar level of annoyance as, for instance, the oft-mooted moving of Southport services to Victoria) but it's not more than that and won't prevent anyone doing anything.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

No, it won't do anything of the sort. Manchester city centre is compact and walkable/wheelable. People will not decide they can't reach the Village simply because they need to take a five-minute walk across Manchester.

It might be annoying (similar level of annoyance as, for instance, the oft-mooted moving of Southport services to Victoria) but it's not more than that and won't prevent anyone doing anything.

Indeed. I've heard some reasons for rerouting (or not) but that one is something else

 

[Deerfold]

No, it won't do anything of the sort. Manchester city centre is compact and walkable/wheelable. People will not decide they can't reach the Village simply because they need to take a five-minute walk across Manchester.

It might be annoying (similar level of annoyance as, for instance, the oft-mooted moving of Southport services to Victoria) but it's not more than that and won't prevent anyone doing anything.

I've seen a lot of violence in the Piccadilly Gardens area - one reason I don't go to Manchester any more unless there's something unmissable on (but am quite happy changing at Manchester stations).

 

[AlastairFraser]

The X41/X43 are a useful link from Kersal, Higher Broughton and residents north of Manchester City Centre to access Piccadilly Station. This will be a valuable link lost if cut back and may reduce access to jobs or travel heading south.

Perhaps you could solve this by running 1 of the 3 X43 departures as a true express bus north of Victoria to Prestwich or via Rochdale Rd, and run the rest using the normal route.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've seen a lot of violence in the Piccadilly Gardens area - one reason I don't go to Manchester any more unless there's something unmissable on (but am quite happy changing at Manchester stations).

There's certainly a big ASB issue around Piccadilly Gardens - it's never been salubrious but it's really bad now. But realistically this is not a reason to change bus routeings, it's a policing issue. If that unhappy, people can take a tram across the city centre.

 

[Bungle965]

I think this thread might have run it’s course for the time being, if and when more information comes out regarding the changes to this service please message either myself, or one of the other mods and we’ll reopen it.

 

[RustySpoons]

A while back Transdev asked for feedback regarding a change in the route of the X41/X43 in Manchester City Centre.

Now the changes have been announced.

a new route in Manchester for Witchway & Red Express​

Our survey showed that most customers were able to use Shudehill, but there was a strong sense of feeling amongst students and commuters that we should still serve Chorlton Street at rush hour - so, this is exactly what we will do.​

No mention of which X43 journeys will run to Chorlton St, but I assume it'll be the existing FAST journeys.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

A while back Transdev asked for feedback regarding a change in the route of the X41/X43 in Manchester City Centre.

Now the changes have been announced.



No mention of which X43 journeys will run to Chorlton St, but I assume it'll be the existing FAST journeys.

There appears to be a different version of the announcement:

Many thanks to Witchway & Red Express customers who completed our recent survey - we had over 300 responses. Following this, we've modified our original plans to improve things for our customers.

Our survey showed that most customers were able to use Shudehill, but there was a strong sense of feeling amongst students and commuters that we should still serve Chorlton Street at rush hour - so, this is exactly what we will do.

From 1 September, all journeys will run to and from Shudehill, with those at rush hours also running onto Chorlton Street. We will no longer serve Deansgate, St Mary’s Gate, Princess St or John Dalton Street which is where most of the delays took place.

From Manchester, every bus will pick up in Shudehill Interchange. Buses which run through Prestwich will also stop at the Printworks (stop NP) right by the Football Museum. We will also have a new stop on Great Ducie Street called 'Trinity Way' which some of you asked us to serve for events at the Arena.

On Witchway there will be buses at 4.25pm, 4.45pm, 5.00pm, 5.15pm, 5.30pm, 5.45pm, 6.05pm and 6.25pm from Chorlton Street. The 5.00pm and 5.30pm are fast to Rawtenstall, all others run through Prestwich.

On Red Express there will be a bus at 5.10pm from Chorlton Street which also picks up at 5.25pm at Shudehill, before running fast to Ramsbottom.

All weekend buses will start at Shudehill.

All buses into Manchester will call at Printworks (stop NK) and most will then finish in Shudehill Interchange.

On Witchway, buses from Burnley at 6.25am (fast), 6.35am, 6.45am (fast), 6.55am, 7.10am (fast) and from Rawtenstall at 6.58am (fast), 7.08am, 7.18am (fast), 7.28am, 7.43am (fast) will run to Chorlton Street, and these will stop on Turner Street (stop NZ) instead of inside Shudehill Interchange.

On Red Express, buses from Accrington at 6.10am and 6.55am and from Ramsbottom at 6.50am and 7.39am will run to Chorlton Street, and these will stop on Turner Street (stop NZ) instead of inside Shudehill Interchange.

 

[bowen]

Really not sure this is a good idea. Yes, it should probably be a major improvement for reliability, particularly when the traffic is really bad during the Christmas markets, but it's going to make the service so much less attractive to anyone going anywhere towards the south of the city centre. And I don't see how it reduces running times enough to save a bus, unless they're going to cut the frequency again.

Yes there are trams at Victoria or Shudehill, but you have to pay again, plus getting on the tram in the city centre is often a pretty unpleasant experience, and we know people don't like changes at the best of times.

But this is another example of public transport suffering from the failure to manage traffic in Manchester city centre.

Can we oppose this at all? Don’t think that’s a good idea for elderly people in our area would like to have a stop at Chorton Street. Aren’t 97/98 already going to Shudehill bus station already and now all 4 buses X41/X43/97/98 in my area all ended up going to Victoria station & Shudehill station. What for? What an inefficient way of bus route planning. Chorton street is also a great stop to Chinatown. Wouldn’t this end up losing business from the tourists in town as well?

 

[RustySpoons]

Can we oppose this at all? Don’t think that’s a good idea for elderly people in our area would like to have a stop at Chorton Street. Aren’t 97/98 already going to Shudehill bus station already and now all 4 buses X41/X43/97/98 in my area all ended up going to Victoria station & Shudehill station. What for? What an inefficient way of bus route planning. Chorton street is also a great stop to Chinatown. Wouldn’t this end up losing business from the tourists in town as well?

The previous route to Chorlton St was extremely inefficient in heavy traffic. There have been a number of times when at least half the fleet was stuck in Manchester traffic making it impossible to keep running the service to the timetable.

The 97/98 going to Shudehill is completely irrelevant as the X41/X43 is a service from East Lancashire.

 

[Tim33160]

Can we oppose this at all? Don’t think that’s a good idea for elderly people in our area would like to have a stop at Chorton Street. Aren’t 97/98 already going to Shudehill bus station already and now all 4 buses X41/X43/97/98 in my area all ended up going to Victoria station & Shudehill station. What for? What an inefficient way of bus route planning. Chorton street is also a great stop to Chinatown. Wouldn’t this end up losing business from the tourists in town as well?

Free bus 2 links Shudehill Interchange to Chorlton St every ten minutes daytime and every 30mins in the evening​

Monday to Friday 7am to 7pm every 10 minutes 7.15pm to 11.15pm every 30 minutes​

Saturday 7am to 8.30am every 15-30 minutes 8.30am to 7pm every 10 minutes 7.15pm to 11.15pm every 30 minutes
Sunday and public holidays 10am to 6.30pm every 10 minutes
View the free bus 2 timetable

Route​

From Piccadilly train station via Station Approach, Piccadilly, Portland Street, Charlotte Street, King Street, Cross Street, Market Street, St Mary's Gate, Blackfriars Street, Chapel Street, Victoria Station Approach, Todd Street, Corporation Street, Withy Grove, Shudehill, High Street, Church Street, Oldham Street, Portland Street, Chorlton Street, Aytoun Street, Auburn Street, Station Approach to Piccadilly Railway Station.
View the free bus 2 route and stops

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wouldn’t this end up losing business from the tourists in town as well?

No, it won't. Most tourists will just take the bus to the main bus station and work it out from there.

 

[Deerfold]

They snuck in a reduction in the night service I hadn't noticed - instead of an 0300 from Chorlton Street there's an 0220 from Shudehill.

 

[158756]

They snuck in a reduction in the night service I hadn't noticed - instead of an 0300 from Chorlton Street there's an 0220 from Chorlton Street.

The night buses are only from Shudehill now as well. Now I personally wouldn't be keen on trekking across the city centre at that time, and the free bus and trams won't be running. And Shudehill itself is reputedly not the safest place at that time of day. Maybe Transdev just think people will put up with it if the alternatives are spending a fortune on a taxi or a hotel room.

 

[RustySpoons]

They snuck in a reduction in the night service I hadn't noticed - instead of an 0300 from Chorlton Street there's an 0220 from Shudehill.

Sneaky, I didn't notice that! I bet for the next few weekends there'll be quite a few people getting caught out by that.

 

[Deerfold]

The night buses are only from Shudehill now as well. Now I personally wouldn't be keen on trekking across the city centre at that time, and the free bus and trams won't be running. And Shudehill itself is reputedly not the safest place at that time of day. Maybe Transdev just think people will put up with it if the alternatives are spending a fortune on a taxi or a hotel room.

Thanks - that's what I meant to highlight.

If I were to go out on one of my occasional trips to Manchester I'd have to leave about 80 minutes earlier (I'd need to catch a taxi as well, but catching the X43 reduces my taxi fare by more than 2/3 compared to catching one from Manchester).

There also no longer seem to be any X43 journeys *to* Nelson or Queensgate depot, though they still run from both in the other direction.

 

[Andyh82]

The night buses are only from Shudehill now as well. Now I personally wouldn't be keen on trekking across the city centre at that time, and the free bus and trams won't be running. And Shudehill itself is reputedly not the safest place at that time of day. Maybe Transdev just think people will put up with it if the alternatives are spending a fortune on a taxi or a hotel room.

Isn’t the Northern Quarter where all the trendy bars are?

Do the night buses depart from actually inside Shudehill Interchange or from the street outside?

 

[markymark2000]

Do the night buses depart from actually inside Shudehill Interchange or from the street outside?

Megabus and Flixbus have to use the bus stops over the road so I'd guess Shudehill interchange is closed overnight.


Does anyone know why Transdev aren't stopping on Church Street or stopping at Piccadilly Gardens? Not stopping at 2 key stops in Manchester City Centre seems like they are deliberately trying to kill off the extension by making it as unattractive as possible.

 

[bowen]

The night buses are only from Shudehill now as well. Now I personally wouldn't be keen on trekking across the city centre at that time, and the free bus and trams won't be running. And Shudehill itself is reputedly not the safest place at that time of day. Maybe Transdev just think people will put up with it if the alternatives are spending a fortune on a taxi or a hotel room.

It’s terrible and especially unsafe for the lady passengers at night isn’t it? Shudehill definitely not safe at those hours and with reduced servicing hours!

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Sneaky, I didn't notice that! I bet for the next few weekends there'll be quite a few people getting caught out by that.

Exactly. I was at the Chorton Street yesterday and a great bunch of people got caught up by that already. People are already expressing great disappointment and how to voice concern about this at the bus stop, a few are elderly with walking assistance as well. Both Princess street and Dalton already eliminated they should at least make Chorton street full service instead of just rush hours. Really terrible.

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There’s also the free bus that continues on and goes past the coach station it’s no real loss when the service is so unreliable because of the delays it encounters from outside Victoria to Chorlton Street as current.

Free bus doesn’t operate at night and not too reliable either. This clearly eventually aims to reduce the night service as well. Not good.

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The free bus is very unreliable though and the links don't all work out so from Shudehill you could get to Chorlton Street easily but you can't get to St Peters Square or Deansgate on the free bus without travelling via Piccadilly. In the opposite direction, you can get easily from St Peters Square and Deansgate to Shudehill but not so much Chorlton Street.

Something that isn't being mentioned here is how this may affect Transdevs relationship with National Express considering the X43 has through ticket sales for Manchester, I can't see National Express offering through tickets to/from a service which serves the other end of the city centre.

Losing access to St Peters Square as a bus stop nearby is just not right for this part of the neighborhood. I hope more people would voice out their concern…

 

[Leedsbusman]

It’s terrible and especially unsafe for the lady passengers at night isn’t it? Shudehill definitely not safe at those hours and with reduced servicing hours!

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Exactly. I was at the Chorton Street yesterday and a great bunch of people got caught up by that already. People are already expressing great disappointment and how to voice concern about this at the bus stop, a few are elderly with walking assistance as well. Both Princess street and Dalton already eliminated they should at least make Chorton street full service instead of just rush hours. Really terrible.

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Free bus doesn’t operate at night and not too reliable either. This clearly eventually aims to reduce the night service as well. Not good.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2024 ==


Losing access to St Peters Square as a bus stop nearby is just not right for this part of the neighborhood. I hope more people would voice out their concern…

Did you share your views as part of the consultation?

 

[Andyh82]

Any complaints should be directed at Manchester City council for closing Deansgate to through traffic making it difficult for a bus that comes in from the north to terminate on the southern edge of the city

 

[Bletchleyite]

If Shudehill is actually unsafe then policing needs changing. Personally I'd feel safer there than Piccadilly Gardens, though.

 

[Simon75]

I saw a Witchway bus yesterday 6/9/24 stopping outside Picadilly Gardens