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Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

Mikey C

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China has world leading electric vehicle technology, plus copious supplies of the necessary minerals to make vehicle batteries, so it's going to be very hard for western manufacturers to compete with them. Western car manufacturers are already squealing about this.
 
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Bornin1980s

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Seconded. We've had Yutongs in Leicester for a few years now, they're great. Warm in the winter and cool in the summer.
We've also got a load of recently introduced Wright electrics too. They're very nice as well, but they're really cold in the winter and no air con for the summer.
Shame, as i'm all for "Buy British", but the passenger experience on the Yutongs is superior.
I believe the Yutongs undergo final fitting out (including batteries) at Pelican Engineering in Yorkshire.
 

ClydeCoaster

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Has Mellor quietly completely dropped the Sigma range? All reference has been removed from their website.
 

Volvodart

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Has Mellor quietly completely dropped the Sigma range? All reference has been removed from their website.

This may help you:-

Concurrent with the product and sales team alignment has been confirmation that the Sigma battery-electric bus range no longer forms part of the Mellor range. Previously, it was built by Wisdom Motor and badged as a Mellor product.

 

GusB

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Wright is getting into the re-power business, initially focussing on its own vehicle types. It's interesting to note that it'll be using the premises of the ill-fated Arrival. I wonder how this will compare with existing re-power solutions such as Kleanbus and Equipmake.

Wrightbus has launched NewPower – a repower facility for diesel buses based at the former headquarters of Arrival, the ill-fated EV business.

NewPower aims to speed up the decarbonisation process by eradicating diesel powertrains in older fleets at a substantially lower price than a new battery-electric bus. It is focused on fitting its tailored electric drivetrain into Streetdeck buses, then tailoring it for Gemini 2, then New Route Master, with plans to then engineer solutions for other common buses, at around £1m per model.

Wrightbus has become the first OEM to offer a re-powering service, utilising the skills of its 1,800-strong workforce to swap diesel for electricity. Its technicians built the original buses and so have ‘unrivalled’ expertise in being able to swap powertrains. Each repower will cost around £200,000, representing a significant saving on a new battery-electric bus.


It is hoped that operators with mid-life bus fleets but without the funding for new zero-emission buses can take advantage of the instant sustainability switch. The conversion – which utilises the Voith Electric Drive System (VEDS) coupled with NMC battery packs and a Grayson HVAC system – can take as little as three weeks to complete and the new factory in Bicester has space for teams to work on six buses at any one time, offering the potential to decarbonise 500 buses a year. The new powertrain uses the existing diff and axle, and the components are mounted on a ‘powerskid’ subframe for easier installation
 

aswilliamsuk

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Wright is getting into the re-power business, initially focussing on its own vehicle types. It's interesting to note that it'll be using the premises of the ill-fated Arrival. I wonder how this will compare with existing re-power solutions such as Kleanbus and Equipmake.

Now this is interesting - but clearly a sensible move.

Maybe I'm adding 2 and 2 and making five, but First has quietly been working on repowering a handful of StreetDecks to electric (at least three are involved, I believe), and I wonder if they've been working with Wrightbus directly on this as the pilot? It would certainly explain why it has taken so long...
 

Markk1990

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Now this is interesting - but clearly a sensible move.

Maybe I'm adding 2 and 2 and making five, but First has quietly been working on repowering a handful of StreetDecks to electric (at least three are involved, I believe), and I wonder if they've been working with Wrightbus directly on this as the pilot? It would certainly explain why it has taken so long...
It’ll solve a number of problems with electric bus procurement, especially within First.

If that photo is anything to go by - 2 Bristol streetdecks and an unknown Streetlite (BoS?)
 

Mikey C

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After all the ludicrous hype around Arrival, nice to see a proper bus manufacturer using their Bicester factory.

A pity that they can't also retrofit larger upper deck windows as well :D
 

aswilliamsuk

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It’ll solve a number of problems with electric bus procurement, especially within First.

If that photo is anything to go by - 2 Bristol streetdecks and an unknown Streetlite (BoS?)
I think they are 35103 (magenta) and 35146 (red). As I recall the other two StreetDecks being repowered are 35112 (from Hoeford/Solent) and 35201 (Norwich). I understood the initial repowered batch is all going to one location but I cannot for the life of me remember where it was.

It will also - if this works, and there's no reason why it shouldn't - help with some of the issues with the earlier StreetDecks, that seem to have been plagued with engine issues.
 

Edvid

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35146 is Leicester green now, as seen in Autocar's take on things:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/wrightbus-launches-electrification-drive-diesel-buses

Retrofitting diesel buses with electric powertrains is the next big business in automotive, Wrightbus CEO and ex-Lotus boss Jean-Marc Gales has told Autocar. He estimates that 34,000 diesel buses will need to be converted or replaced by 2035, creating “a huge business opportunity”.

Northern Irish firm Wrightbus – owned by Jo Bamford, son of JCB boss Anthony – has launched a new sub-brand called Newpower to cater to this predicted demand with a programme that will retrofit diesel bus fleets at their mid-life point.

The company, which built London’s New Routemaster hybrid double-deckers, has opened a new 45,000sq ft facility in Bicester, which it says can convert up to six buses every three weeks.

Each bus costs on average £200,000 to convert whereas a new fully electric bus, such as the recently revealed BYD BD11, costs 500,000, the firm says, having taken bookings through to the end of 2025.

“We can take buses that are five to nine years old and decarbonise them in just three weeks, giving them an extra 10 years of life,” Gales said. “This is nothing short of a revolution.”

He added: “We wish there was some funding from the government. That would be ideal. But for now, this is the best and most cost-effective way for our customers [to lower emissions].

“We want to convert them all.”

The firm is currently in talks with Transport for London to convert its Routemaster buses, a potentially cheaper route for TfL to hit its 2030 EV bus fleet promise.

If Wrightbus is successful, this contract would begin next summer, truly setting the firm on a “pathway to growth”, according to Gales.

“It would be a coup, a great signal, for us. We made them; imagine if we then repowered them,” said Gales.

Retrofitting ageing diesel-powered commercial vehicles is already big business. UK-based company Bedeo, for example, has created a range-extender electric powertrain for vans.
Costing around £25,000, it consists of two in-wheel electric motors. These can be selected, and the engine turned off, when the driver requires.

The Newpower conversion process involves replacing the diesel engine with an electric drivetrain that comprises four 77kWh battery packs, and a Voith electric motor on the existing rear axle, for 322bhp and, most importantly for a 10-tonne-plus bus, 1770lb ft of torque.

Front and rear heat pumps are also added to boost efficiency, as well as extra battery cooling and, to cope with the additional weight from the packs, a package of chassis reinforcements.

Range will average 143 miles, depending on passenger loads and use cases, Wrightbus said. For operators wanting more range, a fifth pack can be added into the nearside wheel arch, boosting range to 178 miles. Wrightbus quotes a 150kW maximum DC charging rate.

However, the conversion does reduce bus passenger numbers by around six for the four-pack option and 12 for the five-pack.

Currently, conversions are limited to Wrightbus’s Streetdeck buses, with its Gemini 2 model next up. Each packaging design for a new bus takes six months to create at a cost of £1 million and the firm will also push to convert buses from rival companies.
 

Markk1990

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My bad - the green I saw was the repainted Streetdeck for Leicester - I assume a transfer imminent?
 

aswilliamsuk

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Even more interesting is that on the Bus & Coach Buyer link (click on the photos), 35112 is now in the new corporate scheme, with Leeds Electric fleetnames. So presumably Leeds and Leicester are going to be sharing this pilot batch (which makes sense, with them already running batches of StreetDeck Electroliners, and both could probably do with a few more!).
 

Edvid

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Interesting to note NewPower already has enough work to last a year (BBC News link):

Even if this is a stop-gap solution to speed up reducing emissions on public transport, the workshop boasts a full order book until the middle of 2025.

Even accounting for First Bus' particularly keen approach to ZEB adoption I'm curious as to who else is sending stock their way (likely another big group if so).
 

Goldfish62

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Interesting to note NewPower already has enough work to last a year (BBC News link):



Even accounting for First Bus' particularly keen approach to ZEB adoption I'm curious as to who else is sending stock their way (likely another big group if so).
I wonder whether it's only Wrightbus vehicles they can repower.

The economics clearly make sense both to avoid the huge expense of so many new EVs having to be acquired in a relatively short period of time, and to avoid the premature retirement of relatively youthful diesel buses.

One thing has struck me though. The claimed 175 miles between charges is somewhat lower than that of the latest new offerings. That'll restrict where these conversions can be used.
 

Surreyman

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Interesting to note NewPower already has enough work to last a year (BBC News link):



Even accounting for First Bus' particularly keen approach to ZEB adoption I'm curious as to who else is sending stock their way (likely another big group if so).
Potentially all current UK (& Ireland) operators of Streetdecks who have (or are shortly going to have) charging facilities in some of their depots and are in 'positive' financial health, I will let others speculate or better still confirm who is actually involved!
 

Snow1964

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One thing has struck me though. The claimed 175 miles between charges is somewhat lower than that of the latest new offerings. That'll restrict where these conversions can be used.

I suspect two reasons. Until recent years many double decks were built to the 18 tonne limit for 2 axle buses (it has been increased to 19.5t). If 18t is all the bus is certified for, making it overweight with large quantities of heavy batteries is not an option. Secondly the weight limits are also per axle, so they can't just fill a space at the back designed for diesel engine with heavier batteries. The alternative of spreading the extra batteries around the front to balance the weight is not going to be easy if space wasn't provided either.

That is why purpose built electric buses tend to have the rear wheels further back, and don't need a big engine compartment behind rear axle.
 
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MotCO

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I wonder whether it's only Wrightbus vehicles they can repower.
I read somewhere (sorry, can't remember where) that the issue with repowering any other vehicles (both Wright and other makes) was the cost of the initial templating for each model. If there was sufficient demand for a particular model, then they could do it.
 

Goldfish62

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I suspect two reasons, until recent years many double decks were built to the 18 tonne limit for 2 axle buses (it has been increased to 19.5t). If 18t is all the bus is certified for, making it overweight with large quantities of heavy batteries is not an option. Secondly the weight limits are also per axle, so can't just fill a space at back designed for diesel engine with heavier batteries. The alternative of spreading the extra batteries around the front to balance the weight is not going to be easy if space wasn't provided either.

That is why purpose built electric buses tend to have rear wheels further back, and don't need big engine compartment behind rear axle.
Thanks - makes perfect sense.
 

GusB

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Considering the numbers involved, the news about Stagecoach's recent orders has been moved to its own thread:
 

joieman

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A Facebook post suggested that the MCV bodywork for the double-decker Volvo BZL is called the DD113, with a similar tri-axle version used in Hong Kong being called the DD123. What is the name for the single-decker version of the bodywork?
 

Jordan Adam

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A Facebook post suggested that the MCV bodywork for the double-decker Volvo BZL is called the DD113, with a similar tri-axle version used in Hong Kong being called the DD123. What is the name for the single-decker version of the bodywork?
Those would be the internal type designations. For example the 10.8M, 12.2M and 12.9M Evora's are internally known as the C113, C123 and C133.
 

Energy

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Wright is getting into the re-power business, initially focussing on its own vehicle types. It's interesting to note that it'll be using the premises of the ill-fated Arrival. I wonder how this will compare with existing re-power solutions such as Kleanbus and Equipmake.

It's interesting to see the New Routemaster mentioned, its interesting design makes it more difficult to send to operators outside of London so repowering them seems very likely.
 

MotCO

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It's interesting to see the New Routemaster mentioned, its interesting design makes it more difficult to send to operators outside of London so repowering them seems very likely.
I hope that is the case, but given the current mayor is of a different political persuasion to the one that ordered them, there may be a desire to get rid of them as soon as possible. Or maybe the cost of doing so is outwith even TfL's budget.
 

FOH

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It's interesting to see the New Routemaster mentioned, its interesting design makes it more difficult to send to operators outside of London so repowering them seems very likely.
These should be more straightforward though (I'd hope) since they already have direct drive motors
 

Volvodart

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These should be more straightforward though (I'd hope) since they already have direct drive motors
TfL may not be keen with the reduction in passengers carried by 6 (or 12 if they go for the larger battery/higher mileage option).
 

Richard Scott

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TfL may not be keen with the reduction in passengers carried by 6 (or 12 if they go for the larger battery/higher mileage option).
Isn’t this for straight diesel buses? Surely as a hybrid it'll already have some batteries fitted?
Would seem a much better investment to refit what are comparatively modern vehicles?
 

CBlue

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Isn’t this for straight diesel buses? Surely as a hybrid it'll already have some batteries fitted?
Would seem a much better investment to refit what are comparatively modern vehicles?

The NRM does have batteries fitted but would require far more to have a useful range as a purely electric vehicle. Fitting enough batteries to do so may well weigh more than the current diesel tank and engine - fitting all that in and maintaining a safe weight distribution probably wouldn't be easy!
 

joieman

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The NRM does have batteries fitted but would require far more to have a useful range as a purely electric vehicle. Fitting enough batteries to do so may well weigh more than the current diesel tank and engine - fitting all that in and maintaining a safe weight distribution probably wouldn't be easy!
Metroline's LT11 was already converted to full electric power two years ago by Equipmake. Therefore it is possible. All that remains to be found is the political willpower to repower the rest of the New Routemasters.
 

Blindtraveler

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About the one thing, myself and the current London mayor agree on is that if we're going to find political willpower to do anything with them, it's scrapped the lot
 

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