Thameslink Accidental Fare Evasion

[SF2024]

Hello

On 22nd April I was travelling from Bedford to London Blackfriars with my daughter on a Thameslink train. I had bought a ticket and selected network railcard. I was then asked to show my ticket and railcard by a revenues inspector but I soon realised I had forgotten my railcard. The inspector did a report, took my details and advised me to upload my railcard to the website on the report she gave me. I realised once I had time to think that my railcard had expired so I bought a new one there and then. Once I got home and found my railcard I realised that it had indeed expired in December 2023. I uploaded the expired railcard to the website with a explanation. Yesterday I received a letter with a intention to prosecute.

It was a genuine mistake, I am fully prepared to pay the cost, and the fines but I am so worried about what will happen. Should I seek a solicitor to handle this? Should I reply as asked on the back of the letter with an explanation? Are Thameslink likely to want to settle out of court?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@SF2024. Welcome to the forum. If you engage appropriately with the train company, then you should be able to negotiate a so-called "out of court settlement" with them. It's not guaranteed that the train company will offer you this, but likely they will.

For a one-way journey from Bedford Stns to London Blackfriars, expect to have to pay the undiscounted Anytime Day Single fare of £33.30 plus a three figure sum towards the train company's investigation and admin fees. By the way, the amount you will have to pay them isn't a fine. It's an "out of court settlement". (N.B. You really don't want a fine. That means you've been taken to court and found guilty and will have ended up with a court conviction! Best to avoid that scenario!)

Possible complication might be if inspection of your online ticket booking history (Tickets booked with Trainline?) shows any other previous instances of you having purchased (and used?) Network Railcard discounted tickets since the last one expired in late 2023.

P.S. Others will now provide general advice as regards how best to reply to the letter you've received.

P.P.S. You shouldn't really be a need to hire specialist legal advisers just yet, unless you end up being asked to pay thousands of pounds in unpaid/underpaid fares.

Good luck!

 

[tskir]

First of all, don't pay too much attention to the threatening language, the letter is intentionally designed to frighten you. Even in the absolute worst possible outcome, three of the outcomes listed (prison sentence, suspended sentence, community service) are literally impossible for first time offenders due to how the law & sentencing guidelines (which are really sentencing rules) work.

Also, despite saying "We always ask that the courts improse the maximum penalty", in reality quite the opposite is true and in the vast majoriy of cases Thameslink will offer an out of court settlement, since they spend less resources and get more money this way.

As @Mcr Warrior mentioned, the most important thing here is whether they will find other tickets in your Trainline history booked with the same railcard since December 2023. If you have done a lot of travel on the expired railcard, be prepared to pay the full cost of Anytime Day Single fares for each of those journeys. You will normally need to be able to pay the lump sum in one installment, so make sure you can do this.

It's important to keep in contact with the rail company (the experts will tell you how best to reply) because if you don't, then likely they will prosecute and you will get a criminal record. But in all likelihood it shouldn't come to this, so don't worry too much.

 

[SF2024]

@SF2024. Welcome to the forum. If you engage appropriately with the train company, then you should be able to negotiate a so-called "out of court settlement" with them. It's not guaranteed that the train company will offer you this, but likely they will.

For a one-way journey from Bedford Stns to London Blackfriars, expect to have to pay the undiscounted Anytime Day Single fare of £33.30 plus a three figure sum towards the train company's investigation and admin fees. By the way, the amount you will have to pay them isn't a fine. It's an "out of court settlement". (N.B. You really don't want a fine. That means you've been taken to court and found guilty and will have ended up with a court conviction! Best to avoid that scenario!)

Possible complication might be if inspection of your online ticket booking history (Tickets booked with Trainline?) shows any other previous instances of you having purchased (and used?) Network Railcard discounted tickets since the last one expired in late 2023.

P.S. Others will now provide general advice as regards how best to reply to the letter you've received.

P.P.S. You shouldn't really be a need to hire specialist legal advisers just yet, unless you end up being asked to pay thousands of pounds in unpaid/underpaid fares.

Good luck!

Thank you so much for the reply I appreciate it. I am unclear about the online account you mention, my expired card is a paper card. When it was in date it was used at ticket machines, so I don't have a online account for it. The new rail card that I have (that is in date) is on the railcard app on my phone. Can you give me your thoughts on this? thank you

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@SF2024. When you bought your recent ticket starting from Bedford, how did you do so? From the ticket office? From a ticket vending machine? Using 'Trainline' or some similar online ticket seller? Some other method perhaps?

 

[SF2024]

@SF2024. When you bought your recent ticket starting from Bedford, how did you do so? From the ticket office? From a ticket vending machine? Using 'Trainline' or some similar online ticket seller? Some other method perhaps?

Hello It was from a ticket machine, in the station entrance. Hope that helps?

 

[SF2024]

Hello

I posted this originally and had some good advice. On 22nd April I was travelling from Bedford to London Blackfriars with my daughter on a Thameslink train. I had bought a ticket and selected network railcard. I was then asked to show my ticket and railcard by a revenues inspector but I soon realised I had forgotten my railcard. The inspector did a report, took my details and advised me to upload my railcard to the website on the report she gave me. I realised once I had time to think that my railcard had expired so I bought a new one there and then. Once I got home and found my railcard I realised that it had indeed expired in December 2023. I uploaded the expired railcard to the website with a explanation. Yesterday I received a letter with a intention to prosecute.

It was a genuine mistake, I am fully prepared to pay the cost, and the fines but I am so worried about what will happen. Should I seek a solicitor to handle this? Should I reply as asked on the back of the letter with an explanation? Are Thameslink likely to want to settle out of court?
I have drafted the following can someone check it for me please?

Dear xxxxx

Reference number: XXXXXX

I am writing in response to your notice of intention to prosecute letter I received from you dated xxxx. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to respond.

On the morning of 22nd April 2024, my details were taken by a Revenue Protection Inspector at Flitwick station. I had bought a ticket thinking I had got my rail card with me. I soon realized that I hadn't so I was advised to upload a copy of the rail card to the website detailed on the report I was given. As the journey continued, I remembered that my network rail card had expired. I subsequently bought a new network rail card while on the train and it's now on my phone as the Railcard app.

I am deeply remorseful for my actions and fully understand the gravity of travelling without a valid rail card for the ticket that I have bought. I would like to take this opportunity to explain the circumstances and to offer my utmost cooperation in rectifying this matter. I acknowledge my mistake and assure you that it was not intentional. I take full responsibility for these errors and understand the implications they have for both the train company and passengers. I understand that travelling without a ticket is a serious offence and can result in legal consequences.

I assure you that I am committed to resolving this issue promptly and to fully compensate Govia Thameslink Railway for the full price of the ticket, and any administrative costs incurred. If it’s decided that this matter can be settled out of court I am fully prepared to make immediate payment.


I deeply regret my actions and I assure you that this incident will serve as a valuable lesson, and I will ensure that such a situation does not occur in the future.


Thank you for your understanding and consideration.

Yours sincerely,

Many thanks

 

[30907]

It covers the points, though I would suggest specifically asking GTR to consider settling.

I find it rather verbose (you haven't asked AI for help have you?) - you assure them x3, understand x3 and so on - but if that's your style, fine

 

[AlterEgo]

Hello

I posted this originally and had some good advice. On 22nd April I was travelling from Bedford to London Blackfriars with my daughter on a Thameslink train. I had bought a ticket and selected network railcard. I was then asked to show my ticket and railcard by a revenues inspector but I soon realised I had forgotten my railcard. The inspector did a report, took my details and advised me to upload my railcard to the website on the report she gave me. I realised once I had time to think that my railcard had expired so I bought a new one there and then. Once I got home and found my railcard I realised that it had indeed expired in December 2023. I uploaded the expired railcard to the website with a explanation. Yesterday I received a letter with a intention to prosecute.

It was a genuine mistake, I am fully prepared to pay the cost, and the fines but I am so worried about what will happen. Should I seek a solicitor to handle this? Should I reply as asked on the back of the letter with an explanation? Are Thameslink likely to want to settle out of court?
I have drafted the following can someone check it for me please?

Dear xxxxx

Reference number: XXXXXX

I am writing in response to your notice of intention to prosecute letter I received from you dated xxxx. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to respond.

On the morning of 22nd April 2024, my details were taken by a Revenue Protection Inspector at Flitwick station. I had bought a ticket thinking I had got my rail card with me. I soon realized that I hadn't so I was advised to upload a copy of the rail card to the website detailed on the report I was given. As the journey continued, I remembered that my network rail card had expired. I subsequently bought a new network rail card while on the train and it's now on my phone as the Railcard app.

I am deeply remorseful for my actions and fully understand the gravity of travelling without a valid rail card for the ticket that I have bought. I would like to take this opportunity to explain the circumstances and to offer my utmost cooperation in rectifying this matter. I acknowledge my mistake and assure you that it was not intentional. I take full responsibility for these errors and understand the implications they have for both the train company and passengers. I understand that travelling without a ticket is a serious offence and can result in legal consequences.

I assure you that I am committed to resolving this issue promptly and to fully compensate Govia Thameslink Railway for the full price of the ticket, and any administrative costs incurred. If it’s decided that this matter can be settled out of court I am fully prepared to make immediate payment.


I deeply regret my actions and I assure you that this incident will serve as a valuable lesson, and I will ensure that such a situation does not occur in the future.


Thank you for your understanding and consideration.

Yours sincerely,

Many thanks

This has been written by AI; don’t do this. Write the response in your own words. Not least because it will sound less insincere, but also because we’ve seen at least one case where someone emailed a load of ChatGPT guff to a train company and mysteriously didn’t get a response at all. I think you run the risk of having the email fail a junk filter if you send stuff which triggers AI content detectors.

Take out the Americanisms and cut it down a bit.

 

[Titfield]

There are also a couple of expressions you use which I personally would not (though of course it is up to you):

(1) You say you deeply regret your actions. But you had forgotten your railcard and hadnt checked or realised your card had expired. Forgetting something or not checking something is not an action, it is an absence of action.

(2) You say you are deeply remorseful. Remorse is defined as deep regret or guilt for a wrong committed. This expression tends to be used when someone has suffered greatly from someone elses actions. Purchasing a ticket with an out of date (having failed to check) railcard does not to me fall into that category of severity.

I would cut down and tone down the letter.

 

[John R]

Similarly, anyone that understands the gravity of the situation has clearly used AI. It’s not language someone would normally use.

Also, it seems somewhat odd that when challenged to provide it you realised that your railcard had expired, before going home and checking it. And even more bizarrely bought a new one even before you confirmed it. If I was reading that I would think that either you didn’t have one at all, or that you knew very well it was out of date when you set off. So I would conclude that you weren’t telling the truth.

 

[SF2024]

This has been written by AI; don’t do this. Write the response in your own words. Not least because it will sound less insincere, but also because we’ve seen at least one case where someone emailed a load of ChatGPT guff to a train company and mysteriously didn’t get a response at all. I think you run the risk of having the email fail a junk filter if you send stuff which triggers AI content detectors.

Take out the Americanisms and cut it down a bit.

I don't use ChatGPT, I would have no idea where to start! I will shorten it and re post thank you for your input.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jun 2024 ==

Similarly, anyone that understands the gravity of the situation has clearly used AI. It’s not language someone would normally use.

Also, it seems somewhat odd that when challenged to provide it you realised that your railcard had expired, before going home and checking it. And even more bizarrely bought a new one even before you confirmed it. If I was reading that I would think that either you didn’t have one at all, or that you knew very well it was out of date when you set off. So I would conclude that you weren’t telling the truth.

I don't use AI and wouldn't know how.

I am going through the Menopause which is causing me to experience memory loss, and forgetfulness. I find that later when I have had time to process things they generally come back to me. I genuinely did forget to pick it up. When my daughter was occupied I had time to process and track back through my calendar app which lead me to realise in all probability I forgotten to renew it, hence it was renewed there and then.

I haven't put this in the letter as it will get to long. From I have read on this forum, brief and concise at this juncture is best.

I will post a revised copy of the letter and welcome feedback.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jun 2024 ==

There are also a couple of expressions you use which I personally would not (though of course it is up to you):

(1) You say you deeply regret your actions. But you had forgotten your railcard and hadnt checked or realised your card had expired. Forgetting something or not checking something is not an action, it is an absence of action.

(2) You say you are deeply remorseful. Remorse is defined as deep regret or guilt for a wrong committed. This expression tends to be used when someone has suffered greatly from someone elses actions. Purchasing a ticket with an out of date (having failed to check) railcard does not to me fall into that category of severity.

I would cut down and tone down the letter.

Thank you for your feedback, I have read it out loud to myself since and yes it was definitely to long and repeated in places. Thank you for the pointers re language I have changed it and will post it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jun 2024 ==

Can someone look this over for me? I am unsure if I need to put the bold bit in?

Dear xxxxx

Reference number: XXXXXX

I am writing in response to your notice of intention to prosecute letter I received from you dated xxxx


On 22nd April 2024, I was travelling to Blackfriars with my 9yr old, I thought I had my network rail card with me and applied the network rail card discount to the fare. A Revenue Protection Inspector at Flitwick station checked my ticket, where I found I had forgotten my rail card. I was advised to upload a copy of the rail card to the website detailed on the report I was given. As the journey continued, I remembered that my network rail card had expired and bought a network rail card for future use. I am going through menopause and am finding I have been and continue to be very forgetful.


I acknowledge my mistake and take full responsibility for these errors. I understand the implications they have for both the train company and passengers.


I am committed to resolving this issue promptly and would like to ask if Govia Thameslink Railway are amenable to settling this without involving the courts? I am fully willing and able to pay the full price of the ticket, and any administrative costs incurred.


Thank you for your understanding and consideration.

Yours sincerely,

 

[Hadders]

I would remove the bit in bold and simply say 'I was advised to upload a copy of the rail card to the website detailed on the report I was given but when I went to do this I discovered that my railcard had expired. Since the incident I have purchased a new railcard'. I would also remove the but about your 9 year old as it's not relevent.