ORR calls for more competition in station catering

[sheff1]

I don't see any significant difference in coffee prices, no matter who is selling the stuff.

At St Pancras, which quite possiblly has the most outlets of any UK station, coffee is on offer from ~£1.50 a cup to over £4, via various options in-between.

 

[Haywain]

At St Pancras, which quite possiblly has the most outlets of any UK station, coffee is on offer from ~£1.50 a cup to over £4, via various options in-between.

Where is this £1.50 coffee? Wetherspoons?

 

[sheff1]

Where is this £1.50 coffee? Wetherspoons?

Correct.

 

[Haywain]

Correct.

Obviously one of those independent outlets you value so highly.

 

[wilbers]

Correct.

Do they also have the free [self-service] refills like highstreet Weatherspoons do?

 

[Benjwri]

Do they also have the free [self-service] refills like highstreet Weatherspoons do?

Yes they do.

 

[yorksrob]

Fair play to any shop offering a £1 instant.

The following graphic from the Financial Times may help explain pricing a little better though:

I doubt an independent would get much change from that 88p irrespective of savings on any of the other elements.

Ultimately the retailer only has to buy a big jar of coffee. They will get many pounds out of that.

 

[Topological]

Ultimately the retailer only has to buy a big jar of coffee. They will get many pounds out of that.

I fear you did not look at the numbers...

Staff 63p plus Shop/Rent at 88p is already more than £1.

Wetherspoons rationale for running Coffee as a loss leader is an interesting one, but I do not doubt that they have done their sums. Probably, involves some logic about making the place seem busy and opportunities to upsell if people sit in the pub long enough. If such numbers would work for a small independent I do not know. However, if the theory is to do with upselling to people who stay in to drink then that would work less well at stations where people take away.

In the case of Wetherspoons at stations, it would harm the brand more if they did not have a consistent offering on cheap coffee (various research). Note that the assumption here is that you get take away coffee from them at that low price.

I do not know the size of the sit down market in stations, but most coffee places do not have that many tables, especially away from the main terminals.

 

[yorksrob]

I fear you did not look at the numbers...

Staff 63p plus Shop/Rent at 88p is already more than £1.

Wetherspoons rationale for running Coffee as a loss leader is an interesting one, but I do not doubt that they have done their sums. Probably, involves some logic about making the place seem busy and opportunities to upsell if people sit in the pub long enough. If such numbers would work for a small independent I do not know. However, if the theory is to do with upselling to people who stay in to drink then that would work less well at stations where people take away.

In the case of Wetherspoons at stations, it would harm the brand more if they did not have a consistent offering on cheap coffee (various research). Note that the assumption here is that you get take away coffee from them at that low price.

I do not know the size of the sit down market in stations, but most coffee places do not have that many tables, especially away from the main terminals.

Huddersfield station buffet was very reasonable and lasted many years (until covid and TPE disappearing up its own backside).

 

[sheff1]

Obviously one of those independent outlets you value so highly.

Where do you get that from ? The only outlets I have praised are Greggs and the 7-Eleven chain in Denmark, with a honourable mention of the former hours of Subway at Wakefield Westgate.

In any case, my reply was aimed at pointing out that prices can vary significantly where there is a wide range of places to choose from.

 

[aleandrail]

nothing wrong with Wetherspoons matey

 

[Haywain]

Where do you get that from ?

Sorry, wrong Yorkshire related moniker.

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nothing wrong with Wetherspoons matey

Their cheap coffee is no help if you want to take it on a train.

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In any case, my reply was aimed at pointing out that prices can vary significantly where there is a wide range of places to choose from.

I can't agree - Wetherspoons are an outlier on pricing of coffee and don't offer a takeaway option like almost all others which means it's not an equal comparison.

 

[Topological]

Relatedly, do we know the price of a takeaway coffee from the Huddersfield Buffet (prior to closure)?

Unless I have misunderstood station catering, a larger proportion of customers take coffee onto the train rather than having sufficient time at the station to drink there (If I had sufficient time, I would be choosing somewhere outside the station if possible).

 

[Richardr]

Doesn't Starbucks do filter coffee for about £1.60 or is my memory fuzzy?

 

[simonw]

Doesn't Starbucks do filter coffee for about £1.60 or is my memory fuzzy?

£2.30 according to this website

Starbucks Menu UK | Starbucks Coffee Prices 2024

just click and check update Starbucks menu UK prices like Starbucks coffee , Starbucks breakfast, drinks menu, opening Hours and Espresso drinks.

starbuckmenu.uk

 

[Djgr]

The Stalybridge buffet bar is a thing of wonder. Long may it continue.

 

[yorksrob]

The Stalybridge buffet bar is a thing of wonder. Long may it continue.

I very much agree.

 

[Topological]

The Stalybridge buffet bar is a thing of wonder. Long may it continue.

All stations should have one.

Many an unnecessary connection, or over long wait has been had there over the years.

* For the purposes of doubt avoidance no stops at Stalybridge violated the terms of the tickets upon which I was travelling as usually it was the System One bus and train combined ticket.

 

[yorksrob]

Relatedly, do we know the price of a takeaway coffee from the Huddersfield Buffet (prior to closure)?

Unless I have misunderstood station catering, a larger proportion of customers take coffee onto the train rather than having sufficient time at the station to drink there (If I had sufficient time, I would be choosing somewhere outside the station if possible).

I can't remember, but I used to get two cups of tea with my fry-up, which itself was very reasonable.

 

[185143]

Sorry, wrong Yorkshire related moniker.

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Their cheap coffee is no help if you want to take it on a train.

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I can't agree - Wetherspoons are an outlier on pricing of coffee and don't offer a takeaway option like almost all others which means it's not an equal comparison.

I've certainly seen Wetherspoon branded paper cups lying around, so some 'Spoons must do take away.

Or do you mean The Barrel Vault specifically don't do take away? I've even had takeaway pizza from a couple of 'Spoons!

 

[Topological]

Sorry, wrong Yorkshire related moniker.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jun 2024 ==


Their cheap coffee is no help if you want to take it on a train.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jun 2024 ==


I can't agree - Wetherspoons are an outlier on pricing of coffee and don't offer a takeaway option like almost all others which means it's not an equal comparison.

I've certainly seen Wetherspoon branded paper cups lying around, so some 'Spoons must do take away.

Or do you mean The Barrel Vault specifically don't do take away? I've even had takeaway pizza from a couple of 'Spoons!

It seems the website for Wetherspoons say they do take away: https://www.jdwetherspoon.com/drink/coffee-at-wetherspoon

Free refills□ on coffee, tea and hot chocolate at £1.56 each or less.

Available from opening with breakfast and throughout the day.

Enjoy free refills□ on a range of drinks:
• flat white
• cappuccino
• latte
• mocha
• white coffee
• black coffee
• espresso
• Tetley tea
• hot chocolate

Decaffeinated tea and coffee are also available. Help yourself to oat milk, Fairtrade sugar and sweetener at the easy-to-use self-service coffee stations.

On the move? Take-away cups are available for any hot drink.

 

[yorksrob]

I've certainly seen Wetherspoon branded paper cups lying around, so some 'Spoons must do take away.

Or do you mean The Barrel Vault specifically don't do take away? I've even had takeaway pizza from a couple of 'Spoons!

They do. At the Leeds one I've had my tea in a takeaway cup to take one out.

 

[physics34]

All stations should have one.

Many an unnecessary connection, or over long wait has been had there over the years.

* For the purposes of doubt avoidance no stops at Stalybridge violated the terms of the tickets upon which I was travelling as usually it was the System One bus and train combined ticket.

Nope.. have yourself an
overpriced pumpkin rubbish place

 

[sheff1]

I can't agree - Wetherspoons are an outlier on pricing of coffee and don't offer a takeaway option like almost all others which means it's not an equal comparison.

Are you sure Wetherspoons at St Pancras don't have takeaway cups ? As others have said, various other 'spoons certainly do - I frequently get a takeway coffee for the train from the one on Leeds station and have got them from others without any difficulty.

*At St Pancras I use the Greggs on the upper level if I want a coffee for the train as it is a lot closer to the EMR gateline (£1.95 if memory serves) so have only had a sit in at 'spoons.

 

[co-tr-paul]

Not read previous posts but have always thought :
1, why so much rubbish on trains compared to 80s ?
2, why on board catering no longer makes a profit ?
It's not hard to work out .

 

[Dr Hoo]

Not read previous posts but have always thought :
1, why so much rubbish on trains compared to 80s ?
2, why on board catering no longer makes a profit ?
It's not hard to work out .

1. Compared to MaxPax instant coffee (often in a, ahem, ‘recycled’ disposable cup) plus an over-priced packet of Rich Tea biscuits?

2. Did it ever ‘make a profit’?

(I am deliberately excluding alcohol from this comparison because this thread seems to be centred on allegedly overpriced hot drinks and snacks.)

 

[PeterC]

A lot of businesses have had to adopt funny hours due to costs and not just on the

Tuesday to Sunday is pretty standard in catering outside the big chains.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Tuesday to Sunday is pretty standard in catering outside the big chains.

Just not the case in my experience. (Neither of the two independent cafés closest to me have those days.) Let alone variable ‘hours’, viz mornings only; close at 1400; 1100-1600 or whatever, seen as I travel around.

 

[Sealink]

Sorry if I have posted this before but I remember being at stations in London and the outlets all seemed to part of SSP.

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I've certainly seen Wetherspoon branded paper cups lying around, so some 'Spoons must do take away.

Or do you mean The Barrel Vault specifically don't do take away? I've even had takeaway pizza from a couple of 'Spoons!

Spoons definitely do takeaway coffee and food, although they do not seem to market it.

 

[Trainlog]

I might not have been lucky with my experiences with independent coffee shops or smaller chains at national rail stations, but for the ones I have been to, the coffees have ended up tasting rather bitter. Though I would like to support independent businesses, the reality is that a larger chain coffee shop is consistent, and has a rewards system, and in the case of Mcdonalds and Cafe Nero, they are open late at London terminals. The latter is good for hot chocolates if you are in London Victoria at night.

The only time I support nonchain coffee shops these days is if I am at a heritage railway, especially if it's just spotting on the line.

If independent coffee shops offered the following, it might convince more people to use them.

• Sustainability: If independent coffee shops start to become more self-service style cafes where the till is still manned for cakes and toasted sandwiches, and the coffee is from a self-service machine. The incentive is that you can get a small discount on your coffee or hot chocolate for a reusable cup, unlike at a Costa Express one.

As well as reduced plastic consumption, it can also help with improving bins onboard trains as they won't be blocked up as quickly if people weren't using as many disposable cups.

“Are coffee cups left on trains classed as litter?”

Train operators around the country have a band of presentation staff who battle to keep train carriages clean for rail passengers.

www.railadvent.co.uk

• Price: I appreciate some coffees are more expensive to make, but if they were able to sell tea at no more than £1.50 and hot water for 50p so you can bring your own instant coffee sachet, these coffee shops could be considered better value for money.