Strong rumours that some of the 377/3 fleet will transfer to South Eastern once the 387 cascade happens

[Southern Dvr]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/great-northern-fleet-379s.247756/

There are strong rumours that some of the 377/3 fleet will transfer to South Eastern once the 387 cascade happens.

 

[Busman]

There are strong rumours that some of the 377/3 fleet will transfer to South Eastern once the 387 cascade happens.

So Southern will effectively get net zero?

The 387s have Southern seating moquette I'm sure? Will be interesting to see if the exterior gets a Southern livery repaint.

 

[JonathanH]

So Southern will effectively get net zero?

Net zero isn't what the previous poster is implying.

 

[Busman]

Net zero isn't what the previous poster is implying.

Never said it was, it was a question, hence the question mark.

 

[LA50041]

There are strong rumours that some of the 377/3 fleet will transfer to South Eastern once the 387 cascade happens.

Not heard anything about 377/3 moving on, but there is a plan that up to 17 377/4 are to move to Southeastern once the 387 cascade is completed

 

[physics34]

So Southern will effectively get net zero?

The 387s have Southern seating moquette I'm sure? Will be interesting to see if the exterior gets a Southern livery repaint.

Id imagine just a southern logo as the doors are already dark green. They might stretch to that light green around the cabs and the skirt at the front

 

[Minstral25]

Hopefully a group (not necessarily all) from 377 120 to 377 139 will be going to SouthEastern once the 387's rock up on Southern (mostly for South Coast services) meaning a net gain probably of around 11 units for Southern.

 

[Busman]

Hopefully a group (not necessarily all) from 377 120 to 377 139 will be going to SouthEastern once the 387's rock up on Southern (mostly for South Coast services) meaning a net gain probably of around 11 units for Southern.

Interesting, so there is some slight gain then. It's a shame we'll be losing the comfortably seated units for yet more ironing boards but I guess as they say, better to have trains running than none at all.

 

[PGAT]

At least if 377120-139 leave then we get to replace 3+2 seating with 2+2

 

[ThameslinkUser]

At least if 377120-139 leave then we get to replace 3+2 seating with 2+2

Those are the ones I'm hoping leave too!

 

[Sutton in Ant]

Additional trains for GN, with some (not all) 387’s going to Southern.

It’s going to be less than 30, as the objective is to increase the fleet size (and therefore capacity) at GN.

I am going to wait and see on that 1. But I have a feeling that the rolling stock that is going to be with GN will be the 379s and the named Thameslink 700s.

 

[brad465]

Not heard anything about 377/3 moving on, but there is a plan that up to 17 377/4 are to move to Southeastern once the 387 cascade is completed

Which would not be enough to end all MetCam Networker operations, as around 7 465/9s and 28? 466s would be left on a net zero carriage count change. Unless of course Southeastern are prepared to have a unit shortfall until a whole brand new fleet arrives (which I wouldn't put past them).

The talk was also for this December, but I can't see that happening the way the 379 inspections are going so far.

 

[JonathanH]

The talk was also for this December, but I can't see that happening the way the 379 inspections are going so far.

Suggestions on the WNXX forum were for 6 379 diagrams from a fleet of 10 379s from December so Southeastern transfer would presumably be later as more 379s are available.

 

[Dhansak]

Hopefully a group (not necessarily all) from 377 120 to 377 139 will be going to SouthEastern once the 387's rock up on Southern (mostly for South Coast services) meaning a net gain probably of around 11 units for Southern.

I too would be happy to see the back of those units! I am not alone either, if one shows on our morning commuter service (formed of two units), a reasonable number of passengers will move up to the other unit to avoid travelling on it.

 

[DanNCL]

I’d expected it to be the 377/2s that transferred, but there’s suggestion here of /1s, /3s or /4s. I think we’ll just have to wait to see what happens!

 

[PGAT]

Outside of rumours is there official evidence to suggest this cascade will happen?

 

[brad465]

I’d expected it to be the 377/2s that transferred, but there’s suggestion here of /1s, /3s or /4s. I think we’ll just have to wait to see what happens!

There were 2x 377/1s with Southeastern until the Class 455 withdrawal at Southern, then those 2 returned to Southern. So that subclass is definitely compatible, and I suspect the 4s will be too. The 377/3s being 3 car would probably cause more issues based on where they'd be needed.

 

[Stephen42]

Which would not be enough to end all MetCam Networker operations, as around 7 465/9s and 28? 466s would be left on a net zero carriage count change. Unless of course Southeastern are prepared to have a unit shortfall until a whole brand new fleet arrives (which I wouldn't put past them).

The target seems likely to be just the 465/9s. They are pooled together with the other 465s diagram wise, but when they were separate it was 83 from 97 for the other Networkers and with 100 diagrams now would need to find 17 units in service. 17 class 377s wouldn't be enough, coupled with final pair of class 707s though could plausibly cover 16 465s and a final 465 swapped to a 466.

The current diagrams see a few class 466s stabled Monday/Friday and lengthening other trains midweek, with only 2 on Saturday and 1 on Sundays. The strategy looks to be use them as little as possible, perhaps as they need to last until the new stock is ordered and is in service.

 

[stadler]

I hope that if Southeastern get more 377s then they modify them to enable them to work with the 375s in passenger service. I understand at the moment the 375s and 377s are unable to work coupled to each other in passenger service. It would certainly be better from an operational perspective if the two classes were compatible.

 

[LA50041]

I’d expected it to be the 377/2s that transferred, but there’s suggestion here of /1s, /3s or /4s. I think we’ll just have to wait to see what happens!

Outside of rumours is there official evidence to suggest this cascade will happen?

377/2 and 377/3 have never been suggested as moving. It has always been suggested (up to) 17 x 4 car DC 377.
There are internal documents detailing the cascade, but they are marked as confidential so I cannot share at this time.

 

[PaulJ]

I hope that if Southeastern get more 377s then they modify them to enable them to work with the 375s in passenger service. I understand at the moment the 375s and 377s are unable to work coupled to each other in passenger service. It would certainly be better from an operational perspective if the two classes were compatible.

Oops! This one got coupled up in error and caused a bit of a delay!

 

[Sutton in Ant]

I wonder if these things is really going to matter if Labour is going to form the next government. As trains services will be back in public hands

 

[JonathanH]

I wonder if these things is really going to matter if Labour is going to form the next government. As trains services will be back in public hands

The railway will still need to justify its cost, perhaps even more so. Being in public hands definitely doesn't mean a blank cheque.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

The railway will still need to justify its cost, perhaps even more so. Being in public hands definitely doesn't mean a blank cheque.

I wasn't referring to a blank cheque. What I was referring to is that if there is going to be a department for allocating the rolling stock to a certain section of uk regions.

 

[JonathanH]

What I was referring to is that if there is going to be a department for allocating the rolling stock to a certain section of uk regions.

Isn't that what the Department for Transport does already?

 

[Clarence Yard]

I wonder if these things is really going to matter if Labour is going to form the next government. As trains services will be back in public hands

They already are and have been since 2020. The DfT signs off on service changes and allocates stock between the ex-franchises.

Those TOCs that are still run for the DfT by the private sector just do what they are told. That is what the NRC regime is all about.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

I found this. Southern is believed to be getting some of the 387s from GN but has not decided how many yet.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Hopefully a group (not necessarily all) from 377 120 to 377 139 will be going to SouthEastern once the 387's rock up on Southern (mostly for South Coast services) meaning a net gain probably of around 11 units for Southern.

I too would be happy to see the back of those units! I am not alone either, if one shows on our morning commuter service (formed of two units), a reasonable number of passengers will move up to the other unit to avoid travelling on it.

I would be happy for these to NOT to come over to SouthEastern....we want more 2+2 seating on the mainline

 

[Minstral25]

I would be happy for these to NOT to come over to SouthEastern....we want more 2+2 seating on the mainline

So do we

 

[Baji]

why do people not like 2+3 seating? They are good if your travelling with more people (more people get sit together) and if train is empty, some people use the side that has 3 seats to Lie down. I understand walking space but 3774 would be better because it has mixture. Maybe it depends on if your traveling alone or with others