Non-acceptance of PlusBus tickets

[Towers]

Mod note: posts moved from this thread

@Mike395 in case they dont accept it, what would you recommend I do? Is there some proof I can show them or what do you suggest?

Refuse to leave the bus and suggest they make contact with their depot or control room!

 

[Haywain]

Refuse to leave the bus and suggest they make contact with their depot or control room!

I'd advise against that - the driver has the ultimate say over who he carries (valid ticket or not) so there's no point in getting stroppy.

 

[Towers]

I'd advise against that - the driver has the ultimate say over who he carries (valid ticket or not) so there's no point in getting stroppy.

I disagree; refusing carriage to a customer holding a valid ticket is unacceptable, drivers do not have the agency to refuse travel simply because they feel like it! Unfortunately this sort of poor behaviour or unacceptable training is only ever tackled when somebody challenges it, simply putting a complaint after the event in is highly unlikely to make any difference. Much like the multitde of issues we see regarding barrier staff or ticket offices talking rubbish!

 

[Mike395]

I disagree! Refusing carriage to a customer holding a valid ticket is unacceptable, drivers do not have the agency to refuse travel simply because they feel like it!

Unless you're happy with confrontation, I too advise against this for most people. I'd just pay £2 (very easy now virtually all buses take card payments) and claim it back from the bus company, which will also alert them to the training need.

 

[Haywain]

I disagree! Refusing carriage to a customer holding a valid ticket is unacceptable, drivers do not have the agency to refuse travel simply because they feel like it!

How long are you going to delay the bus and other passengers while you argue that? And refusing carriage to a disruptive person is legitimate.

 

[Towers]

How long are you going to delay the bus and other passengers while you argue that? And refusing carriage to a disruptive person is legitimate.

A customer pointing out that their ticket is valid is “disruptive”? Oh dear; do you work for a bus operator?!

A driver should be correctly trained in the first place, and even if that isn’t the case they should possess the common sense and intelligence to give the benefit of the doubt. A ticket emblazoned with “[LOCATION] PLUSBUS” on it is quite clearly intended for use on buses, thus the appropriate action for any reasonable person would quite obviously be to allow travel and clarify it later. If someone opts instead to be pigheaded about it I fail to see how that is the fault of the legitimate customer, or why they should be disadvantaged; sorry!

The idea that someone challenging a mis-informed driver becomes “disruptive” and then provides the same driver with a legitimate excuse to chuck them off of the bus belongs back in the dark days, bus operators tend to be a bit more into customer service these days!

*I have worked as a bus driver!

 

[Haywain]

A customer pointing out that their ticket is valid is “disruptive”?

No, but a customer refusing to pay a fare or leave a bus on request is being disruptive. That's reality.

 

[Djgr]

No, but a customer refusing to pay a fare or leave a bus on request is being disruptive. That's reality.

If it happens to me I'm standing my ground.

As stated above, there is a link online showing the geographical area of validity and the participating operators (everyone I would have thought!). Be prepared to show this to the cynical, stroppy and under trained. (We've all been there!)

 

[Towers]

No, but a customer refusing to pay a fare or leave a bus on request is being disruptive. That's reality.

And what is a driver refusing to carry someone holding a valid ticket?

 

[Haywain]

And what is a driver refusing to carry someone holding a valid ticket?

They're a driver.

 

[Buzby]

When challenged the driver either admits he got it wrong, or they’ll express they’re right and request YOU take further guidance…. And on the next bust they don’t bat an eyelid! I’ve never been in a confrontation where I’ve been refused carriage. If either of you come across as stroppy it just causes needless aggravation and as the bus was probably late at the stop, the pragmatic approach is for him to keep moving!

 

[Surreytraveller]

No, but a customer refusing to pay a fare or leave a bus on request is being disruptive. That's reality.

But the passenger hasn't refused to pay the fare. The fare has been paid, and the passenger is in possession of the ticket. By refusing to accept the ticket, it is the driver who is being disruptive
If the driver doesn't like it, walk past and take a seat. Record the interaction between you and the driver should the driver escalate the situation

 

[Haywain]

But the passenger hasn't refused to pay the fare.

They have if the ticket that they have shown is declined.

If the driver doesn't like it, walk past and take a seat.

And when the driver turns off the engine and tells you he'll be staying there until you get off?

 

[OscarH]

I think there's a disconnect between an ideal world and reality. Yes, the bus driver would be in the wrong for rejecting the ticket, and you may argue that in principle it's not disruptive because the driver is the one in the the wrong, but the driver is judge, jury and executioner here. It's not necessarily fair, but that's life.

The practical advise for most people who just want to use the bus to get where they want to go is just pay for a ticket and go to customer services afterwards for reimbursement.

 

[Surreytraveller]

They have if the ticket that they have shown is declined.

And when the driver turns off the engine and tells you he'll be staying there until you get off?

Just sit there and wait

 

[Haywain]

Just sit there and wait

Until other passengers decide that you need 'persuading'? Until the police turn up?

 

[MotCO]

Can you ask the driver why s/he is refusing to accept the ticket? E.g. why does s/he not think it is valid when you can show him/her a website which says it is?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Until other passengers decide that you need 'persuading'? Until the police turn up?

So you don't think the bus driver should take any responsibility?

 

[RT4038]

So you don't think the bus driver should take any responsibility?

That is not how it works at the time. Pay the fare requested and sort it out later. The bus driver will be taking taking responsibility when you have made the complaint afterwards, (and you'd better be quite sure of your facts regarding validity too before making a scene!). Two people sure of their facts (even if one is wrong), but the bus driver is in charge of the bus.

 

[Surreytraveller]

That is not how it works at the time. Pay the fare requested and sort it out later. The bus driver will be taking taking responsibility when you have made the complaint afterwards, (and you'd better be quite sure of your facts regarding validity too before making a scene!). Two people sure of their facts (even if one is wrong), but the bus driver is in charge of the bus.

Perhaps the bus driver should be quite sure of the facts before they make a scene?
I think a passenger standing their ground when they are in the right should be encouraged. I am shocked that you and others believe the bus driver should be allowed to carry on when they are quite clearly incompetent
There's no point complaining, because no one cares, and they likely won't understand the complaint and the bus driver won't be reprimanded. So the passenger needs to deal with the situation there and then

 

[Jan Mayen]

Perhaps the bus driver should be quite sure of the facts before they make a scene?
I think a passenger standing their ground when they are in the right should be encouraged. I am shocked that you and others believe the bus driver should be allowed to carry on when they are quite clearly incompetent
There's no point complaining, because no one cares, and they likely won't understand the complaint and the bus driver won't be reprimanded. So the passenger needs to deal with the situation there and then

But not, please, delaying the journey of others.
I'm sure there was a post from a train driver along the lines of "if anyone gives me grief, the train isn't moving until they are off" or words to that effect.

 

[Surreytraveller]

But not, please, delaying the journey of others.
I'm sure there was a post from a train driver along the lines of "if anyone gives me grief, the train isn't moving until they are off" or words to that effect.

It is the bus driver at fault, not the passenger. I would suggest you direct your frustration at the bus driver, not the passenger standing their ground because they are in the right
The bus driver is in a position of power and authority, and they shouldn't be allowed to abuse that and get away with it

 

[bcarmicle]

It is the bus driver at fault, not the passenger. I would suggest you direct your frustration at the bus driver, not the passenger standing their ground because they are in the right

How is the average bus passenger who isn't aware of PlusBus supposed to determine that the bus driver, an official representative of the bus company, is wrong and that the passenger who's showing a random website on their phone is correct?

It's unfortunate that not all bus drivers are aware of PlusBus, but as others have said, the best solution for those who can do so is to pay up and recover the fare later. For those who can't, realistically speaking, they're going to have to wait for a bus driver who is familiar with PlusBus.

 

[Surreytraveller]

How is the average bus passenger who isn't aware of PlusBus supposed to determine that the bus driver, an official representative of the bus company, is wrong and that the passenger who's showing a random website on their phone is correct?

It's unfortunate that not all bus drivers are aware of PlusBus, but as others have said, the best solution for those who can do so is to pay up and recover the fare later. For those who can't, realistically speaking, they're going to have to wait for a bus driver who is familiar with PlusBus.

How is the average passenger supposed to know the bus driver is in the right? This argument could go on for hours. If the bus driver is in the right, let them call the police, let the police eject the passenger from the bus, and then have the bus driver prosecuted for assault
The best course of action is for the bus to be delayed, then the driver would have to answer for that. Combined with a complaint from the passenger with a valid ticket, hopefully a competent manager working for the company will deal with it. If the passenger just gets off, there will be no comeback for the driver

 

[bcarmicle]

How is the average passenger supposed to know the bus driver is in the right?

The average passenger will assume that the bus driver is correct given they work for the bus company. That they are not is neither here nor there.

If the bus driver is in the right, let them call the police, let the police eject the passenger from the bus, and then have the bus driver prosecuted for assault

I'm sorry, but the bus driver being prosecuted is unrealistic (and I am not even sure there would be a case to answer).

The best course of action is for the bus to be delayed, then the driver would have to answer for that.

Which the bus company would classify as "disruptive passenger" and move on.

Combined with a complaint from the passenger with a valid ticket, hopefully a competent manager working for the company will deal with it. If the passenger just gets off, there will be no comeback for the driver

Correct, the passenger should make a complaint when requesting a refund. A complaint from a passenger who has been internally classifed as "disruptive" will just be ignored.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Correct, the passenger should make a complaint when requesting a refund. A complaint from a passenger who has been internally classifed as "disruptive" will just be ignored.

Why should the passenger have to pay for a fare which has already been paid?

 

[RT4038]

How is the average passenger supposed to know the bus driver is in the right? This argument could go on for hours. If the bus driver is in the right, let them call the police, let the police eject the passenger from the bus, and then have the bus driver prosecuted for assault
The best course of action is for the bus to be delayed, then the driver would have to answer for that. Combined with a complaint from the passenger with a valid ticket, hopefully a competent manager working for the company will deal with it. If the passenger just gets off, there will be no comeback for the driver

As has been said already, the bus driver is in charge of the bus. Any attendance by the Police will result in the Police not taking the right or wrong of the ticket validity into account, the passenger being ejected and told to take the matter up with the management of the bus company. There is no question of the bus driver being prosecuted for assault (unless there has been some other escalation of the incident).

There is no absolute right to be conveyed. If a ticket has been bought and then incorrectly not honoured then there will be a civil claim on the bus company. (in much the same way as if the bus had not stopped for you in the first place, for instance)

Why should the passenger have to pay for a fare which has already been paid?

Because otherwise, in this situation, they are not going to be carried. No different to any other situation where an advance purchase has not been honoured for some reason.

 

[Jan Mayen]

It is the bus driver at fault, not the passenger. I would suggest you direct your frustration at the bus driver, not the passenger standing their ground because they are in the right
The bus driver is in a position of power and authority, and they shouldn't be allowed to abuse that and get away with it

Sadly, there power is to refuse to drive the bus. So not sure pointing out that they are wrong is a good idea when you are trying to get somewhere.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Sadly, there power is to refuse to drive the bus. So not sure pointing out that they are wrong is a good idea when you are trying to get somewhere.

In that case the bus driver isn't going anywhere either. Presumably the bus driver will have a copy of the fare chart which will state the acceptance of Plus Bus?

 

[RT4038]

Passengers are just as likely, if not more likely, to be mistaken or wilfully cheating on the validity of tickets, whilst being insistent to the driver that the ticket is valid (be it PlusBus or any other ticket) Sometimes the passenger will be right and the driver wrong. There being no absolute right to conveyance, the only alternative is to pay (or not ride) and take the matter up with the bus company management. Fortunately these incidents do not happen very often. All employees make mistakes.

In that case the bus driver isn't going anywhere either. Presumably the bus driver will have a copy of the fare chart which will state the acceptance of Plus Bus?

Generally printed farecharts are no longer produced - they are contained within electronic ticket machine displays only and validity areas of these tickets not shown because the equipment is not configured for that function on PlusBus tickets due to system incompatibility at present.