Because organisations, whether public bodies or private companies choose when to make announcements, and the thirst to know of those on internet forums will be very low on the list of their media team’s priorities in determining when to do so.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Haymarket to Dalmeny electrification
- Thread starter diamond chap
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Also, if you never announce in advance you're going to do something, you can't be accused of reneging on a promise when it doesn't occur.
The Puddock
Member
If it’s any consolation, it is proving to be virtually impossible to get any information on the electrification projects internally as well.
We're net exporters of electricity for around half the days of the year.
chuff chuff
Member
- Joined
- 25 Sep 2018
- Messages
- 670
Looks like more drop tubes added some down by the tram bridge over the line.
These are on the previously constructed OHL when the Edinburgh to Glasgow line was electrified. Will need a good bit more work with new piling and mast erection to get to Dalmeny.
Probably better on the masts than lying in a store compound that could disappear.
Scotrail84
On Moderation
- Joined
- 5 Jul 2010
- Messages
- 2,977
Piling only really goes from South Gyle stn to just before Dalmeny jn. These were only test piles though, so I was told. The Forth bridge, Queensferry, Inverkeithing and Kinghorn tunnels are major obstacles to overcome. Thats before you get anywhere near the Tay bridge and Dock street tunnel which I believe is either at, or under sea level already.
The Forth and Tay bridges and the tunnels are not part of the current Fife scheme. See the map attachment in #441 (to which the Leven branch should be added).
However, except for 80x bi-modes between Edinburgh and Dalmeny, none of it will be much use until there are some BEMUs (or 769s?) to use it.
Waverleystu
Member
- Joined
- 12 Nov 2017
- Messages
- 78
The project is clearly going ahead though otherwise there wouldn’t be drop tubes attached recently and activity at the compound
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
As per the map in the post above, the scope of the current project doesn't include any of the structures you list but, that said, the Kinghorn Tunnel is the only one that falls in the "major obstacle" category. The Forth Bridge is an issue of aesthetics rather than a technical challenge and the tunnels south of Inverkeithing are of diameter that shouldn't prevent electrification as is.
North of Ladybank, the Tay Bridge again is a matter of looks rather than anything technical and the Dock Street tunnels were rebuilt a few years ago as part of the Dundee Waterfront project and I believe that track lowering has already been identified as the solution.
NotATrainspott
Established Member
- Joined
- 2 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 3,304
Does anyone know if the Dalmeny electrification will include the loops? If it does, then it provides some flexibility for electric trains from the east to run through Haymarket and serve South Gyle and/or Edinburgh Gateway. The 0718 from North Berwick runs to Haymarket, with a return at 1740. Both of these require an ECS reversal at Haymarket Central (morning, evening) which I imagine will be awkward to timetable at peak time. With the loops wired up, you can extend this service by a stop or two and get it out of the way until there's a clear return path. It won't be transformative, but more flexibility is always better.
Would be short-sighted not to.
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
If it was England it wouldn’t happen. Scotland is more enlightened so it will happen imho.
chuff chuff
Member
- Joined
- 25 Sep 2018
- Messages
- 670
Those moves do get in the road a little bit.Though they might not be too keen to squeeze in an ecs move over to up loop at those times either.
Last edited:
NotATrainspott
Established Member
- Joined
- 2 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 3,304
Ah, I see now that there isn't a crossover to let trains from the down loop to rejoin the up line. So with the current track arrangement, you can't just pop into the loop and wait for a clear path to come back.
In the grand scheme of things it seems like something that could be added in if there's a solid reason. Until now, why would you bother sending a train to Dalmeny to turn back? It would have to be a diesel, so it may as well keep going over the bridges.
Falcon1200
Established Member
Sorry; So electrification schemes in England cover only main lines and do not include loops - Examples please.
What seems most unenlightened in this particular scheme is electrifying just a small part of a route which only a tiny number of trains will actually benefit from, for several years at least. It would surely have been far more worthwhile to continue the wires north from Dunblane to Perth, and then on to Dundee; No awkward bridges to deal with either!
Trainbike46
Established Member
You seem to have missed Scotrail's BEMU plan!
Falcon1200
Established Member
Which is just that, a plan; When are these trains likely to enter service?
Ask Vladimir Putin and the coronavirus.
Falcon1200
Established Member
A most helpful response.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
Aren't you embarrassed by the lengths to which companies will go to use these two factors as an excuse? I surely am. I would never condone it, let alone jump on the bandwagon.
The financial situation of the UK and Scottish governments is vastly worse than it was two years ago. Two years ago the Scottish rail industry was in expansionist mood, embarking on new projects. Since then the shutters have come down with a big thud. Scottish government finances are controlled by the UK government, which as I understand it has left infrastucture funding unchanged in cash terms despite vast inflation - and that's before HS2 phase 2 was cancelled with its loss of Barnett consequentials. They are trying to avoid cutting the electrification programme back to nothing. It's almost two years since we last heard anything on rolling stock. But the feeder stations ordered in 2022, including Thornton and Tweedbank, are still committed and should be in place by autumn 2026, so presumably they will try hard to have something to be powered by them not long after that date.
A Scottish parliamentary answer as recently as mid-May shows that they are still sticking to the line that the refresh of the decarbonisation plan, first promised for spring 2023, is still being worked on, and that something will be heard about rolling stock.
Maybe secretly they are waiting for something from Rachel Reeves's first UK budget in the autumn but I doubt there'll be much comfort in it.
Last edited:
Yes there is. It does involve a reversal on the running line at Dalmeny station though (which would mean that the wires have to go that far, if it's an EMU):
waverley47
Member
- Joined
- 17 Apr 2015
- Messages
- 845
Or you'd run it to Edinburgh Gateway in service, turn around in the up loop, and resume from Gateway in the up direction?
Even easier!
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Would think the recent work on Dalmeny has been only to keep the electrification crews busy. There currently is no signed off money to the scheme
Although you would never believe that can election is pending.woukd you
NotATrainspott
Established Member
- Joined
- 2 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 3,304
Being able to avoid a reversal on a running line seems to be the most useful capability. If you're going to need to cross a through line (as we aren't talking about a central turnback) the faster you can be clear of it, the better.
chuff chuff
Member
- Joined
- 25 Sep 2018
- Messages
- 670
Appears to be delivery of concrete cubes 3x3x3 perhaps only managed a quick look at the compound at Turnhouse. What the use is I've no idea.
A wee edit managed another quick look and they have that ribbed flexi pipe running through from side out to the top.
A wee edit managed another quick look and they have that ribbed flexi pipe running through from side out to the top.
Last edited:
Thinking about it a little more, it makes sense to wire to Dalmeny station in any case so that passengers could be detrained if for any reason a BEMU or hybrid was unable to switch to battery/diesel.