WesternLancer
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They will add the fine which is the punishment for the offence involved.
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GOT CAUGHT USING 11-15 OYSTER. HELP!!
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If you do not work, then you will likely have to pay a fine of £40 and a surcharge of £16, plus the costs and compensation on the SJPN.
They are meant to make a deduction from benefits order so that the money will be taken from your benefits, but this doesn’t always happen automatically and you may be given a payment barcode to pay in at a paypoint shop, or a link to pay online. If you want them to deduct it from your benefits, write to the court after you receive the fine letter.
understood thanks
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ohhhh i see.
just a question off topic does anyone know what particular reason some people may be let off with a warning and others not (both being first time offenders).
i misused a 11-15 and got sjp whereas i know 2 others ; 1 misused 11-15 and the other a freedom pass whereby both got a warning
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also, they are theres been misuse for xxxxx journeys (i dont think all was me) but the one i got caught for is me. should i state im pleading guilty as the one i got caught for was me but i cant confirm the others were me?
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See circled in blue. It doesnt state that was the amount of times misuse occured it just states thats how much the card was used in the last 3 months paying
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There could be plenty of reasons. TfL won’t usually prosecute minors (who are under 18), or it could be that there are significant compelling reasons why a prosecution wouldn’t be in the public interest for those people. It could be those people qualified, in fact, in other ways for free or discounted travel, or any number of reasons.
Are you being asked if you’d like the offences to be taken into consideration? Please show us the whole document you’ve been sent, all pages.
they were both older than me at the time, and in the same situation - no discounted travel so just wondering.
they havent asked me if id like to take the offences into consideration or not, thats just the paragraph in regards to those journeys it hasnt been mentioned elsewhere. i am confused about the wording it doesnt state if they were offences or just the journeys in the last 3 months.
i just spoke to the number on the letter also - so the court prosecutions department and the person i spoke to said theres no criminal record as your not getting arrested and she also confirmed this with her manager who said its just a fine so doesnt come up but to double check with dbs if it comes on dbs or not
To be clear, you will have a criminal record. Convictions are a matter of public record at the court. There won't however be an entry on the Police National Computer as you have been privately prosecuted under a Bylaw and not by the police. This is what they are referring to.
Your conviction will be spent after a year following the date of conviction. You will need to declare it if asked about unspent convictions in that year, but after that it is spent, and only in certain circumstances will you need to declare it.
You should be aware that the following professions and offices will mandate you, by law, to declare even spent convictions if you are asked about them: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1975/1023/schedule/1/made
This offence will rarely show on an Enhanced DBS check but this is separate to your legal duty to declare even spent convictions if you are asked about them and the circumstances dictate (see above). Concealing a spent conviction in these circumstances is also an offence, and could even be a fraud offence if you obtain employment through deception.
tfl said that it doesnt mean the other journeys was me. what tfl does is they can catch data from 3 months prior of the offence and since you get caught with the oyster and admit you misused it they will automatically assume that you misused all the journeys in the past 3 months. its not solid proof based on cctv or anything its just an assumption.
they told me to speak to the courts and see if i can plead guilty but state i do not plead guilty to all the journeys in the past 3 months prior to the offence date. do you guys recommend this? i know it costs the courts etc i dont want to make it look like im a bad person
they told me to speak to the courts and see if i can plead guilty but state i do not plead guilty to all the journeys in the past 3 months prior to the offence date. do you guys recommend this? i know it costs the courts etc i dont want to make it look like im a bad person
Are you being asked if you'd like to take these other apparent offences into consideration, or not? Again, please upload the full paperwork.
IANAL, etc. but there is no obligation on you to volunteer information that they don't have or to incriminate yourself in an offence that you aren't being charged for.
the person I spoke to told me they are basically saying in my plea that i made all those journeys and misused though?
For the third time, it is very important that you upload the whole SJPN or whatever correspondence you received, so we can be under no doubt as to what is going on.
We really do need to see the entirety of all the paperwork you have been issued with, not just a small piece of one page. You can cover up personal details such as your name and address.
okay will upload when im free
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i need to declare the potential conviction, does anyone know if the answer to the following is yes or no:
'Posts entailing contact with patients are exempt from the provisions of Section 4 (2) of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Order 1975. Applicants are therefore not entitled to withhold information about any convictions, cautions, reprimands or warnings, including those relating to juvenile offences.
Do you have any convictions, cautions, reprimands or final warnings which are not ‘protected’ as defined by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Order 1975 (as amended)?*'
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The answer to that today is 'no', since your case is working its way through the system. However, once and if you receive a conviction then the answer would be 'yes'.
As @najaB said - today, you do not have a conviction. Once the court date has been and you have been sentenced, then you will have a conviction.
As your position/profession seems to be one which is exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, you will need to declare this conviction every time you are asked, once the conviction has gone through, regardless of whether or not it is spent. You should check your contract or course rules to see if you have a legal duty to inform them immediately of any conviction once it has happened - you probably will.
As I understand it, the term “protected” here refers to something that happened many years before the question is being asked. So you can ignore the exception, the part of the question which excludes protected things.
This means the answer is “yes” from the date when the court processes your case, and will remain “yes” even after the conviction is spent in this context where the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply.
The charity Unlock may have information or be able to give more targeted advice, as could an employment or criminal solicitor I expect.
This means the answer is “yes” from the date when the court processes your case, and will remain “yes” even after the conviction is spent in this context where the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply.
The charity Unlock may have information or be able to give more targeted advice, as could an employment or criminal solicitor I expect.
understood thanks
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thanks
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t
thank you
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i will send in any updated questions later today/tomorrow morning , appreciate all the help
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Heres the letter i got, i covered personal info if anyone sees anything ive missed please let me know. Thanks in advance
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And this
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I can't see anything that changes the advice given previously. It's worth noting that they don't appear to be seeking recovery of assumed losses, which is something in your favour.
what do you mean by the second sentence?
also i only sent it as someone was asking
In the third image they estimate that you evaded £331.20 worth of fares, but further down they say that they're making an application for £0 in compensation. They could have said that they intend to apply for the £331.20 as well.
They would only be able to do this if they wanted other offences to be taken into consideration. The only thing they could claim on this single offence would be one single fare, and it looks like they either forgot or couldn’t be bothered.
That's exactly the point - they aren't taking the other instances into account, nor attempting to recover the fare for this particular instance.
Which means that they aren't treating it as a crime of dishonesty.
fatimaawaheed
New Member
Did u apply for the appeal or not ?
notmyrealname
Member
Hi.
If you're in a similar situation please start a thread of your own and people will be happy to advise. As the guys here say, no two cases are ever the same and both you and the OP need tailored advice.
If you're in a similar situation please start a thread of your own and people will be happy to advise. As the guys here say, no two cases are ever the same and both you and the OP need tailored advice.
notmyrealname
Member
I agree with the guys. What is the job title of the person you spoke to? I'm wondering if this isn't something they would routinely deal with.
Edit: Out of interest, I picked a random university and looked at their FAQs about criminal convictions. They publish an admissions policy that explains what happens if you declare a conviction. Maybe the place you want to go to has that on their website?
Edit: Out of interest, I picked a random university and looked at their FAQs about criminal convictions. They publish an admissions policy that explains what happens if you declare a conviction. Maybe the place you want to go to has that on their website?
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ah i see, what could be the possible reason they chose to do this
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i see so are they considering the other journeys made on the oyster? or no? as mentioned they were used by the person whos oyster it was not misuse
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oh ok thats good, i mean what advantages could this have? im assuming its because i showed from what i was aware of payment methods you can use to pay for transport i had none available and i showed proof of this.
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but where do i do this? someone said this to me but i dont see where i can, its either plead guilty or not?
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not speeding this is about tfl and yes, as mentioned somewhere by me im sure i said they told me over the phone and i have it written via email if thats what you mean. the university has an panel where they decide if i will keep my place or not and unfortunately i cant
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lead admissions officer for the spoke and the panel to whom this person passed the info onto the panel.
notmyrealname
Member
I still don't think this sounds right. Have you checked out their online admissions policy?
it just talks about filling out a form which i did to see their next steps and about dbs closure.
Fawkes Cat
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I'm sorry to keep banging on about this, but I still don't think that you're completely out of luck here. There's a couple of reasons for this:
- if there's a panel to discuss cases, then that means that there's a possibility that they will find that you can continue on the course. The thing is, if the rule was absolute (so ANY criminal conviction means that you can't be on the course) then there'd be no point in having a panel to discuss it - you don't need to discuss if the answer's always going to be 'no'
- and I don't think that the panel will have considered your case yet. Because if they had, and had turned you down, you would be getting a letter or email saying so, and withdrawing your offer of a place. As far as I can tell, they haven't told you that your offer has been withdrawn so that says to me that you haven't yet been through the process.
We can't guarantee that the university will let you in. But don't just assume that a conviction for fare dodging definitely means that you will be rejected.
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