eTickets/ITSO ticket acceptance on London Underground

[Wallsendmag]

Something which should be changing soon!

I know. But that wasn’t the question

 

[PeterC]

My experience with oyster is positive as well - and I also have a railcard discount set on it. I never really encounter problems with it, and topping up at ticket machines is pretty easy (and now that most people use contactless, there's never really a queue anymore). For people without discounts or season tickets, Contactless is clearly a massive improvement and the easiest payment system around.

My understanding is that TfL hasn't introduced eTickets, but that they have reasons for that, and that one is that people are, on average, slower at scanning an eTicket than at using the accepted payment methods (magstripe, contactless, oyster, ITSO), and that at certain key stations that could cause crowding issues.

Pretty much my experience with Oyster too.

Using an e ticket adds a minute overhead for the individual passenger but across the loadings seen in Central London this soon adds up.

 

[Taunton]

Sounds to me like something which originated in the TfL commercial department, who see a great revenue opportunity for thousands of Contactless Zone 1 charges for people now getting from one terminal to another. All the excuses about why are just that.

 

[Sonic1234]

My understanding is that TfL hasn't introduced eTickets, but that they have reasons for that

eTickets are a National Rail thing, and the culture within TfL is very much they are nothing to do with National Rail (even LO/Liz Line parrot this). Anyone who have ever tried to do anything "unusual" but valid at a TfL station like break their journey has probably heard the phrase "National Rail mate, nothing to do with us"

TfL also feel they have done smart ticketing and crossed it off the list. They've had smart tickets in the form of Oyster for 20+ years, and have added contactless. They're not interested in other forms.

 

[MrJeeves]

TfL also feel they have done smart ticketing and crossed it off the list. They've had smart tickets in the form of Oyster for 20+ years, and have added contactless. They're not interested in other forms.

Heavily demonstrated by all the work done to begin accepting E-Tickets...

 

[Adam Williams]

not even a half-arsed attempt at phase 1 has gone live

To be fair to TfL and Cubic, there is now a go-live date for the half-arsed attempt at phase 1. Both parties should be heartily congratulated for their exemplary work in this area.

 

[Wallsendmag]

To be fair to TfL and Cubic, there is now a go-live date for the half-arsed attempt at phase 1. Both parties should be heartily congratulated for their exemplary work in this area.

Really? That's an interesting statement.

 

[Adam Williams]

Really? That's an interesting statement.

Who do you think is to blame for it being 7 months late and covering 11% of the intended stations?

Let's not forget all of the customers at much of the other stations have had to deal with all the changes to the "simplified" fares structure with none of the benefits of .. actually being able to use contactless and have a more convenient commute for a huge chunk of time. It's a farce, genuinely.

 

[SWT_USER]

To be fair to TfL and Cubic, there is now a go-live date for the half-arsed attempt at phase 1. Both parties should be heartily congratulated for their exemplary work in this area.

There's been a go live date for ages hasn't there? The problem is it keeps moving further and further back.

I'm one of those who will (in theory) benefit from project Oval but all I've had so far is higher fares.

 

[blueberry11]

Regarding physical barcode tickets, they should be in the same format as normal tickets, but with a barcode somewhere, not like Greater Anglia's one where it is not credit card sized, and doesn't fit through the ticket slot and is on plain white paper (link to thread below). That way, it will be valid on the Underground as TfL and maybe Merseyrail are not looking to install barcode readers anytime soon.

Barcoded Tickets from Greater Anglia TVM's

Taken from the Greater Anglia website: ------- East Anglia’s train operator, Greater Anglia, is upgrading some of its ticket vending machines to enable a new type of ticket to be trialled on its network. Ticket machines at 18 stations will be upgraded to enable them to print a barcode onto...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Sleepy]

Regarding physical barcode tickets, they should be in the same format as normal tickets, but with a barcode somewhere, not like Greater Anglia's one where it is not credit card sized, and doesn't fit through the ticket slot and is on plain white paper (link to thread below). That way, it will be valid on the Underground as TfL and maybe Merseyrail are not looking to install barcode readers anytime soon.

Barcoded Tickets from Greater Anglia TVM's

Taken from the Greater Anglia website: ------- East Anglia’s train operator, Greater Anglia, is upgrading some of its ticket vending machines to enable a new type of ticket to be trialled on its network. Ticket machines at 18 stations will be upgraded to enable them to print a barcode onto...

www.railforums.co.uk

White paper tickets are a DfT driven thing - so they can say even more people are using "digital" tickets, no real benefit to passengers over CCST version.

 

[Haywain]

no real benefit to passengers over CCST version.

It can equally be argued that CCST tickets provide no real benefit to passengers over white paper barcode tickets.

 

[MrJeeves]

It can equally be argued that CCST tickets provide no real benefit to passengers over white paper barcode tickets.

Except being more durable (physically, not magstripe-wise!), smaller and thus more convenient to fit into a small wallet, and, at some stations, making use of barriers more efficient (easier/quicker to put a ticket through a slot rather than hunt for a barrier which has a barcode reader as not all are equipped at every station).

 

[Watershed]

It can equally be argued that CCST tickets provide no real benefit to passengers over white paper barcode tickets.

They absolutely do. CCST fits into a typical wallet much more easily than a "bog roll" ticket, because as the name says, it's credit-card sized.

Origami is needed to avoid folding the barcode on a "bog roll" ticket, thus potentially rendering it illegible. And once folded one/two/three ways, it is then much thicker than a CCST ticket.

I'll stick with CCST tickets for as long as they're available. There's no way I could fit 8-10 "bog roll" tickets into my wallet without it bulging - not that they're available anyway for the kinds of journeys I tend to make.

 

[Haywain]

They absolutely do. CCST fits into a typical wallet much more easily than a "bog roll" ticket, because as the name says, it's credit-card sized.

Sorry, I disagree. PRT is about the same size as a £20 note and therefore fits a cash wallet comfortably.

 

[Watershed]

Sorry, I disagree. PRT is about the same size as a £20 note and therefore fits a cash wallet comfortably.

My wallet carries £20 notes, CCST, credit cards and so forth just fine - but "bog roll" tickets stick out. I wouldn't want a wallet that's any bigger and I shouldn't have to change wallets just to accommodate the latest fad that the railway has cottoned onto!

 

[Haywain]

In which case you have to make "reasonable adjustments", such as folding a ticket. It's hardly the end of the world.

 

[Watershed]

In which case you have to make "reasonable adjustments", such as folding a ticket.

Why should I have to make adjustments when it is the railway that has changed things to a new (and inferior) standard?

Exactly the same consideration applies here as in the titular issue - the railway has adopted a new standard whilst overlooking, or not really caring about, the side-effects on customers.

It's hardly the end of the world.

Of course not, but it's nevertheless an inconvenience and goes against your earlier argument that

CCST tickets provide no real benefit to passengers

 

[MrJeeves]

Sorry, I disagree. PRT is about the same size as a £20 note and therefore fits a cash wallet comfortably.

Yeah, sure, a cash wallet... which I don't use.

I have a small travel wallet which stores both my CCSTs and credit/debit cards. I'm not planning to get a new wallet just so I can store a PRT.

 

[Haywain]

Why should I have to make adjustments when it is the railway that has changed things to a new (and inferior) standard?

Because, ultimately, you won't get a choice in how physical tickets are delivered.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2024 ==

I have a small travel wallet which stores both my CCSTs and credit/debit cards. I'm not planning to get a new wallet just so I can store a PRT.

I use a railcard wallet, and have no problem getting PRT tickets into it, and being able to scan them without having to remove them.

 

[blueberry11]

I still prefer normal paper tickets (the orange CCST sized) because in the event of a ticket inspection, I can just hand them out and not have to wait like 30 seconds to load the app. I also love to store them in my collections, like what I do with some passport stamps. Same with railcards. I can also put them on my phone which has three slots for credit cards. Therefore, the iconic orange tickets should remain for now.

Not only that, the new GA barcode tickets actually use more paper than the previous one as there bigger.

 

[Haywain]

I can just hand them out and not have to wait like 30 seconds to load the app.

I don't know how many times it has to be said, but eTickets do not require any special apps.

Not only that, the new GA barcode tickets actually use more paper than the previous one as there bigger.

On the plus side, the paper is not only thinner but is recyclable unlike the CCST ticket.

 

[blueberry11]

I don't know how many times it has to be said, but eTickets do not require any special apps.

On the plus side, the paper is not only thinner but is recyclable unlike the CCST ticket.

Ah yes, I forgot to mention that e-tickets can be printed out as it can be a PDF format. But the fact I still prefer normal tickets still stands.

And I am pretty sure almost everyone (myself included) thinks that the CCST ticket is recyclable and can be thrown on the recycling bin with no problems.

 

[Haywain]

And I am pretty sure almost everyone thinks that the CCST ticket is recyclable and can be thrown on the recycling bin with no problems.

That may be the case, but they are wrong - the magnetic strip is a foil film which prevents recycling.

 

[island]

And I am pretty sure almost everyone thinks that the CCST ticket is recyclable and can be thrown on the recycling bin with no problems.

"Everyone" thinking it doesn't make it so.

 

[Bungle965]

We are excited about the launch of these water-based environmentally friendly tickets. The new tickets are the outcome of a successful two-year partnership between RDG and Paragon ID.​

https://www.paragon-id.com/en/paragon-id-revolutionises-the-production-of-the-iconic-uk-rail-ticket

RDG themselves state that they’re environmentally friendly.

 

[Haywain]

RDG themselves state that they’re environmentally friendly.

Knowing the sort of stock levels that were held in stations, I don't think that can be taken to mean that every CCST ticket is now recyclable. I remember reading about the trial of these new water-based tickets but wasn't aware they had become mainstream or when that happened.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Knowing the sort of stock levels that were held in stations, I don't think that can be taken to mean that every CCST ticket is now recyclable. I remember reading about the trial of these new water-based tickets but wasn't aware they had become mainstream or when that happened.

I helped test them but hean't heard about them being rolled out.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Who do you think is to blame for it being 7 months late and covering 11% of the intended stations?

Given the fares have been in the railway fares data feed since last year (as a check of BRFares will confirm), I'd strongly suggest the delay has nothing to do with the TOCs involved.

 

[Adam Williams]

Given the fares have been in the railway fares data feed since last year (as a check of BRFares will confirm), I'd strongly suggest the delay has nothing to do with the TOCs involved.

I'd completely agree with this statement. I also would suggest that DfT are not to blame.

(for folks whose sarcasm detectors were broken when reading my earlier post, I do not consider congratulations to Cubic to be in order!)