Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Goldfish62]

I think there is certainly no incentive anymore as it’ll be taken back into public ownership next May. All a foregone conclusion now.

Although if the senior management at SWR actually still want jobs on the railway in future they're not, outwardly at least, doing anything to impress the right people.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Today marks the 100th day on which a 701 has run in service

Five different units have operated.
701043 54 days
701037 33 days
701039 8 days
701028 3 days
701036 2 days

Total number of services run - 462 (231 round trips)
Total number of services cancelled due to train fault - 8 (all to 701043)
Total number of services lost to other causes - 4 (701039 rostered but did not run due to incident on the line)
Total number of days lost due to strikes - 3

Number of days since first unit entered service - 149 (January 9th)
Number of days since most recent unit entered service - 92 (March 7th)

 

[Lockwood]

Total number of services cancelled due to train fault - 8 (all to 701043)


Well, the poor thing has been terribly overworked.

 

[Goldfish62]

Total number of services cancelled due to train fault - 8 (all to 701043)


Well, the poor thing has been terribly overworked.

Roger Ford is still waiting for reliability data for the 701s that he can put in his monthly new trains reliability table. Odd that nothing has appeared yet, but no doubt delayed like everything else involving SWR.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

I do like some of the smaller design choices on the 701, like the large gaps between the vestibule and where the seats start which allow people to stand back and allow more people on and off at once therefore reducing the amount of time people are boarding or alighting, something you don't see on the Desiro City or many other members of the Aventra family. Also in general creates more standing room which will reduce the feeling of crush during rush hour, also encouraged by the extra grab handle. Does come with the problem of worse window alignment, but for a high density commuter train I think it's a decent tradeoff

 

[DMckduck]

I do like some of the smaller design choices on the 701, like the large gaps between the vestibule and where the seats start which allow people to stand back and allow more people on and off at once therefore reducing the amount of time people are boarding or alighting, something you don't see on the Desiro City or many other members of the Aventra family. Also in general creates more standing room which will reduce the feeling of crush during rush hour, also encouraged by the extra grab handle. Does come with the problem of worse window alignment, but for a high density commuter train I think it's a decent tradeoff

The speed of doors surprise me, considering it was planned to be a heavily intensive metro train I wonder why they chose to take a step back compared with the rapid 707 doors.

Also what's with the soft touch sensors, from what I've seen even the slightest knock and it's back open again

 

[Goldfish62]

The speed of doors surprise me, considering it was planned to be a heavily intensive metro train I wonder why they chose to take a step back compared with the rapid 707 doors.

No different to the 345s and they manage just fine on far more intensive services than SWR.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

The speed of doors surprise me, considering it was planned to be a heavily intensive metro train I wonder why they chose to take a step back compared with the rapid 707 doors.

707s use different types of doors, leaf pockets, while the 701s uses plug doors. Leaf pockets don't need to push themselves outwards so are quicker.
Although in my personal opinion the plug doors really aren't that slow. They open pretty much instantly when you press the button, however for some reason when all doors are opened automatically there is a small delay before they begin to move vs when the beeps start, possibly some sort of safety thing so people who might be leaning on them don't fall out. Just a guess

Also what's with the soft touch sensors, from what I've seen even the slightest knock and it's back open again

Excuse my ignorance but I had no idea they had soft touch sensors

 

[Invincible]

Also what's with the soft touch sensors, from what I've seen even the slightest knock and it's back open again

New things have a higher risk of failure initially, then settle down untill end of life and failures increase as kit gets worn out.
Doors should be the same as other Aventras and any initial door problems be sorted by now?.
Do the other Aventras have such sensitive sensor/detectors, or just 701s? Mentioned earlier in the thread and

First of £1bn Arterio trains set to be four years late

South Western Railway's high-capacity trains are expected to enter service at the end of the year.

www.bbc.co.uk

"The train drivers' union ASLEF previously reported problems with door obstacle detectors"

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

The speed of doors surprise me, considering it was planned to be a heavily intensive metro train I wonder why they chose to take a step back compared with the rapid 707 doors.

Also what's with the soft touch sensors, from what I've seen even the slightest knock and it's back open again

Still a vast improvement on the speed of the 450 doors. I thought that they were quite speedy

 

[Recessio]

6 months later and we’re still discussing which one unit will be out for half a day.

Every other Aventra operator has managed to introduce their fleets en masse. At this point it feels like malice rather than incompetence.

TfL certainly had problems too, the 345s and 710s have had more than a few issues for starters. But you're right, SWR have been particularly terrible at introducing these units compared to other operators.

The speed of doors surprise me, considering it was planned to be a heavily intensive metro train I wonder why they chose to take a step back compared with the rapid 707 doors.

I was surprised by this too - yes they are the same as on 345 and 710, but on EL and LO you do notice there that they are considerably slower versus the Thameslink 700s and all Underground stock. I'm surprised it was considered good enough for a metro service.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

I was surprised by this too - yes they are the same as on 345 and 710, but on EL and LO you do notice there that they are considerably slower versus the Thameslink 700s and all Underground stock. I'm surprised it was considered good enough for a metro service.

When the Aventra design was first unveiled, it was stated that door speed could be customised by the operator through software. However none have seemed to use this

 

[Goldfish62]

I was surprised by this too - yes they are the same as on 345 and 710, but on EL and LO you do notice there that they are considerably slower versus the Thameslink 700s and all Underground stock. I'm surprised it was considered good enough for a metro service.

Because Bombardier didn't offer an option with sliding pocket doors.

Plug doors are more or less universal on metro systems across the rest of Europe.

 

[Mikey C]

Never mind the Aventras, I've never thought that the Networker plug doors were unacceptably slow, the delays in boarding are more down to other factors. To me it was a retrograde step to go back to sliding doors on the 376/378 and Desiro City.

 

[PG]

When the Aventra design was first unveiled, it was stated that door speed could be customised by the operator through software. However none have seemed to use this

Given the, ahem, fragile nature of the outsourced software on the Aventra's it'd be a brave operator who altered the settings lest it 'break' their trains!

 

[DMckduck]

Given the, ahem, fragile nature of the outsourced software on the Aventra's it'd be a brave operator who altered the settings lest it 'break' their trains!

it's taken more than 5 months to add a scrolling calling pattern to the PIS and still they've been unable to add the new voice which is standard across the rest of the swr fleet.

Anybody else noticed how repetitive the automatic announcements are?

 

[OneTrackMinded]

it's taken more than 5 months to add a scrolling calling pattern to the PIS

It scrolls now? Would like to see a video of that. I assume you mean the internal screens since the external display has done that since day 1
I slightly doubt it as Aventras have historically never been able to have a scrolling PIS, it does it like a slideshow

 

[DCtrains]

they've been unable to add the new voice which is standard across the rest of the swr fleet.

One of the main reasons for this being the fact that all other SWR stock (with the exception of 458s) is fitted with the same axion system, which 701s are not fitted, this is my best guess as to why Elinor is not present on 701s and 458s. Either that or somebody somewhere is afraid that changing the software may end up breaking something else

 

[southern442]

Never mind the Aventras, I've never thought that the Networker plug doors were unacceptably slow, the delays in boarding are more down to other factors. To me it was a retrograde step to go back to sliding doors on the 376/378 and Desiro City.

Networker doors have always been very fast, even when compared to pocket sliding doors. That being said they are also not hugely reliable

 

[dingdinger]

Even if the signals are fitted with CD/RA at Clapham, there is definitely no platform equipment to use it. Only platforms 12-17, regarding the post about the boxes near the red hut, I would assume these are now defunct, and in the situation that CD/RA we’re to be used for 701s, new platform equipment would be required anyway, alongside staff as these platforms are usually peak time only dispatch, or just a member of Agency staff carrying out security walks

Platforms 5 and 6 have working CD/RA equipment. It may have been previously defunct but definitely working now.

 

[wickham]

On Tuesday 4th June a Wimbledon Park to Marchwood Class 701 transfer took place, followed by a return Marchwood to Wimbledon Park. It has been confirmed on this thread that 701045 was the unit returned to Wimbledon, but there has been no report of which unit was taken to Marchwood, does anyone know ?
RTT confirms that both trains DID run (powered by 69008):

 

[NSEWonderer]

This video is quite interesting. Whilst it's on a completely different topic it shows Long Marston in quite a bit of detail but more so the large amount of 701s sitting in store next to the ex TPE MK5 Novas.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Does anyone know why 701s have much bigger "skirting boards" than 730s? They're the same generation of Aventra, it doesn't make much sense they'd have differing designs in that element. Both have underfloor heating

 

[3973EXL]

On Tuesday 4th June a Wimbledon Park to Marchwood Class 701 transfer took place, followed by a return Marchwood to Wimbledon Park. It has been confirmed on this thread that 701045 was the unit returned to Wimbledon, but there has been no report of which unit was taken to Marchwood, does anyone know ?
RTT confirms that both trains DID run (powered by 69008):

It was 701032.

701038

Realtime Trains | 5Q76 1006 Eastleigh Trsmd to Marchwood Mod Gbrf | 12/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q76 1006 departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Marchwood Mod Gbrf on 12/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[norbitonflyer]

RTT being coy again today. Last time that happened (last Wednesday) what turned up was neither of the usual suspects, so we live in hope.............

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Apparently DCO is something they're determined on implementing despite the setbacks and problems. For how long it will be degraded working is anyone's guess

 

[Goldfish62]

Apparently DCO is something they're determined on implementing despite the setbacks and problems.

Given a favourable pay uplift was negotiated for drivers in return for working DCO it's hardly surprising. They can hardly take that money away.

I still can't fathom why there are such problems. Look at Greater Anglia, where apart from the 379s DOO operation, where it existed, was based on platform mirrors and monitors. Everything has converted wholesale to DCO with in-cab monitors, including the significant parts of the network which had full guard operation. Arguably a more complex scheme than the one that SWR has so far failed to implement.

 

[Mainsideman]

Apparently DCO is something they're determined on implementing despite the setbacks and problems. For how long it will be degraded working is anyone's guess

Degraded working will still be used fairly reguarly when the trains enter full service to retain the guards dispatch compentency and to train new guards also.

 

[DMckduck]

Given a favourable pay uplift was negotiated for drivers in return for working DCO it's hardly surprising. They can hardly take that money away.

I still can't fathom why there are such problems. Look at Greater Anglia, where apart from the 379s DOO operation, where it existed, was based on platform mirrors and monitors. Everything has converted wholesale to DCO with in-cab monitors, including the significant parts of the network which had full guard operation. Arguably a more complex scheme than the one that SWR has so far failed to implement.

I honestly think the money to fix some of the issues isn't being signed off, I know for a fact twickenham is currently degraded due to signal glare. I believe Putney is the same too, I can't see the money being granted to move signalling equipment at all.

This is all before the trains even attempt other routes, considering how many routes are planned it could end up being a very costly infrastructure bill.

Could we potentially see stations being permanently degraded with guard dispatch?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2024 ==

Degraded working will still be used fairly reguarly when the trains enter full service to retain the guards dispatch compentency and to train new guards also.

Not required as much or often as you would think, to keep up competency all that's needed essentially is 1 degraded station every 6 months.

 

[Goldfish62]

I honestly think the money to fix some of the issues isn't being signed off, I know for a fact twickenham is currently degraded due to signal glare. I believe Putney is the same too, I can't see the money being granted to move signalling equipment at all.

This is all before the trains even attempt other routes, considering how many routes are planned it could end up being a very costly infrastructure bill.

Could we potentially see stations being permanently degraded with guard dispatch?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2024 ==


Not required as much or often as you would think, to keep up competency all that's needed essentially is 1 degraded station every 6 months.

Interesting - thanks for the insight. Makes perfect sense (your explanation, not the insanity of what's happening).