Scotrail’s alcohol ban - pointless?

[yorksrob]

But that is surely it - a rule - any rule, will always have varying degrees of implementation. “no ball games” will be ignored by many. Some will have a quiet game, and others will batter the muddy football against your granny’s window. The rule exists so if someone chooses to intervene; they can point to the sign and say “can’t do that here pal” - despite most of those kicking the ball will cause no problem whatsoever.

Make no mistake, any change in this policy would only be perceived in one way by people who cause a problem in this area. And a pleasant travel experience it wouldn’t make.

Having rules just in case someone chooses to enforce them is completely not the way to go, especially as it discriminates against those of us who are disinclined to break them.

If a rule is to be put in place, it should only be done so on the assumption that it will be enforced equally to everybody.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having rules just in case someone chooses to enforce them is completely not the way to go, especially as it discriminates against those of us who are disinclined to break them.

If a rule is to be put in place, it should only be done so on the assumption that it will be enforced equally to everybody.

Agree with this.

Replied here with my views on how a partial ban should perhaps be:

ScotRail alcohol ban: what should be the policy?

Having rules just in case someone chooses to enforce them is completely not the way to go, especially as it discriminates against those of us who are disinclined to break them. If a rule is to be put in place, it should only be done so on the assumption that it will be enforced equally to...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[williamn]

Make no mistake, any change in this policy would only be perceived in one way by people who cause a problem in this area. And a pleasant travel experience it wouldn’t make.

I doubt the people causing trouble have any idea the rule exists as they’re never tackled on it. It’s not as as other operators trains in Scotland are significantly more rowdy either.

 

[Russel]

Honestly, we're a small island, is there really a need to have different sets of rules and laws depending on which side of an invisible border you're on?

Just think what could be done with the money saved by having just one government.

 

[Carntyne]

This is not the point at all.

This is Scotrail - a company - imposing a Presbyterian prohibition on alcohol on their trains, which they explain is about making the environment on their company's trains "safe and friendly". It's about a minority of badly behaved louts who are rarely challenged anyway, not one quiet wino on a 158 who needs an intervention

An important thing to remember is it was the Scottish Government who've kept this in place, not us in the TOC.

 

[al78]

I can see the arguments for the pointlessness of this ban. Any rule is pointless if it cannot or is not enforced, the entitled will do what they like regardless.

It seems we generally have an unhealthy attitude towards alcohol in the UK. I'm not saying other countries are free of drunken behaviour but my perception is the UK population seems to be particularly bad at self control. Back in my school days I was allowed to have a small glass of wine with a family meal and thought nothing of it, it was a normality for me. I wonder if that was a factor behind me never getting into the drinking culture at university, because alcohol was never a forbidden fruit for me so I felt no desire to consume as much as I could get hold of.

It probably should be noted that drunk and disorderly behaviour is not just an issue on trains, it can be a problem on other modes of public transport as well:

Rowdy British stag-do guests in wigs hauled off Tenerife ‘flight from hell’ by police

Group said they ‘were going for it’ and allegedly snuck alcohol aboard the easyJet flight, passengers said

uk.yahoo.com

Rowdy British stag-do guests in wigs hauled off Tenerife ‘flight from hell’ by police

A British stag do party were removed from a “flight from hell” to Tenerife after it was alleged they drunkenly abused air hostesses.

The group, made up of at least ten men some dressed in wigs, loudly shouted on the easyJet flight that they were “going for it”, passengers said.

Those on board the flight claimed the group had smuggled alcohol and board and nearly brought female air stewards to tears after they refused to hand over bottles.

Duncan Young, 56, a passenger on the 4-and-a-half hour flight told The Independent it was the “flight from hell”.

He said: “The captain was aware of two stag parties on board and welcomed them with a warning to ‘behave themselves’ and respect other passengers.

“But they were already intoxicated. My wife and I were sitting in the front seats by the head steward on board and we could hear that the group of lads had smuggled alcohol on board and were ‘going for it’ in a big way.

“The captain came on again after about an hour and warned the passengers that due to the behaviour of some passengers, the plane may have to be diverted.

“The chaos continued with the group swearing, taking photos of the crew and physically stopping them from taking away their alcohol and then two women stewards came down to the front of the plane. They were close to tears and visibly upset by it all.

“Another meeting happened with all the stewards and the captain to decide what to do and the passports were taken off the passengers. Unfortunately this didn’t calm them down and then homophobia kicked in aimed at the crew.

“We landed and were told not to undo our belts but to remain where we were as the authorities were boarding the plane. They duly did and police hauled at least 10 passengers off the flight."

 

[tehmarks]

Just think what could be done with the money saved by having just one government.

I'm going to make an educated guess and assume that you don't live in Scotland?

 

[Mogz]

williamn What makes it laughable is that there is a train an hour behind you where drinking alcohol is allowed.

Or even where alcohol is SOLD!

 

[jagardner1984]

I'm going to make an educated guess and assume that you don't live in Scotland?

Its also a nonsense, we have layers of government in all areas of the UK. In different bits Education, Healthcare fall under different responsibilities. Generally I think decisions made nearer to people are better than those made further away. That is as true in the County / State / Federal levels of organisation in the US, as it is here.

Removing one government doesn't remove the cost of those services, it just moves those costs elsewhere.

Makes me think of this absolutely glorious clip on "central efficiency"

Yes Minister S02E7 A Question Of Loyalty - video Dailymotion

Watch Yes Minister S02E7 A Question Of Loyalty - Voyage 131 on Dailymotion

www.dailymotion.com

 

[cf111]

I'd go somewhere else instead. So draconian.

I'm afraid that I have to go through Inverness to get anywhere else by train!

 

[TUC]

The alcohol ban is promoted by those who tut tut at the notion of anyone drinking beer on a train whilst they discuss it over a glass of wine at home.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2024 ==

Honestly, we're a small island, is there really a need to have different sets of rules and laws depending on which side of an invisible border you're on?

Just think what could be done with the money saved by having just one government.

The problem is that 'one government' would be London-based. As someone with a Scottish wife I'm very aware of how distant that government feels in Scotland, together with how different the values of London and Scotland are.

 

[snookertam]

Honestly, we're a small island, is there really a need to have different sets of rules and laws depending on which side of an invisible border you're on?

Just think what could be done with the money saved by having just one government.

Well that’s a whole other discussion

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2024 ==

The alcohol ban is promoted by those who tut tut at the notion of anyone drinking beer on a train whilst they discuss it over a glass of wine at home.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2024 ==


The problem is that 'one government' would be London-based. As someone with a Scottish wife I'm very aware of how distant that government feels in Scotland, together with how different the values of London and Scotland are.

Let alone the fact that Scotland has had a separate legal system since the UK was founded, which requires separate legislation to change or alter. Founding that one government would actually be a pretty expensive exercise in itself.

 

[Krokodil]

Unfortunately there's not a regional breakdown, but it would seem to me likely that former Strathclyde will have significantly higher figures than the eastern side of Scotland, and especially the Highlands.

If you were replying to a post about rowdiness, I might agree. That post however referred to alcoholism which is a particular issue in the Highlands, just as it is anywhere with such long winter nights. Not that a ban on drinking on trains will make the slightest bit of difference...

Rowdy British stag-do guests in wigs hauled off Tenerife ‘flight from hell’ by police

Out of curiosity, if one ends up on a no-fly list as a result of such behaviour (you'd hope that it was taken that seriously) how do you get home? Or are you sent straight back in cuffs and then banned?

 

[BlueLeanie]

Alcoholism, and rowdy use of alcohol on public transport are both problems. They aren't the same problem though.

You probably never notice hardcore alcoholism, it's usually hidden in plain sight. I suspect the bin men could point out almost every alcoholic on their round more accurately than any GP record.

 

[dk1]

Alcoholism, and rowdy use of alcohol on public transport are both problems. They aren't the same problem though.

You probably never notice hardcore alcoholism, it's usually hidden in plain sight. I suspect the bin men could point out almost every alcoholic on their round more accurately than any GP record.

We always laugh as the bin lorry pulls up outside and say “there goes ours”

 

[Krokodil]

The bin men probably think that I'm an alkie with very poor taste. Little do they know that I've only been buying that Bud Light because it was the cheapest way of trapping slugs in the garden. I wouldn't dream of drinking that rubbish!

 

[Goldfish62]

The alcohol ban is promoted by those who tut tut at the notion of anyone drinking beer on a train whilst they discuss it over a glass of wine at home.

Agreed. Typically pious attitude from the SNP, meanwhile Scotland continues to have chronic drugs and obesity problems.

 

[52290]

The bin men probably think that I'm an alkie with very poor taste. Little do they know that I've only been buying that Bud Light because it was the cheapest way of trapping slugs in the garden. I wouldn't dream of drinking that rubbish!

Poor slugs, forcing them to drink Bud Light!

 

[kkong]

There was a brief discussion of the alcohol ban in the 4th June 2024 meeting of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee.

Douglas Lumsden MSP (North East Scotland, Con): It is very brief. The issue of alcohol on trains was going to be looked at. What is the timescale for that and for a decision to be made?

Fiona Hyslop (Cabinet Secretary for Transport): I am actively looking at the issue. Just two weeks ago, I pulled together a variety of stakeholders, including ScotRail, Network Rail, the unions and those who have an interest in issues in relation to women and girls. The core issue is antisocial behaviour and people who are already drunk coming on to trains—I get that. However, the main focus of solutions has to be tackling antisocial behaviour. Just last week, I met the justice minister about that broader issue. I have been discussing it with a number of people, not least Mr Simpson. As we progress, I will keep the member and the committee informed as to what decisions are finally taken. Obviously, I will have to consult my colleagues, because that is a Government policy decision.

 

[Scotrail84]

I still hear plenty of over zealous conductors banging on about the alcohol ban when leaving Queen Street and Waverley, even early in the morning.

When is this consultation going to provide an answer from Transport Scotland?

You'll find they have to say it as part of their pre and post departure announcements.

 

[Deepgreen]

It is pointless; it’s an ineffectual example of nanny state-ism. See also the TfL alcohol ban.

The TfL ban is very different, mainly for the huge difference in the average length of journey involved. There are also far more staff around to enforce the ban and it tends not to be whole train- or coach-loads drinking.