The dwell at Ebbsfleet was three or four minutes. I'm not convinced that the journey times have improved since they ceased stopping there.
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Eurostar St Pancras - is bedlam normal?
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You can do Lille to Brussels for £26 today on every train. I’ve seen quite a few people (maybe up to 20) take trains from Lille while I was coming off.
Coming back however your only option is SNCF.
This way that's expected, it actually used to be possible to do that on the London-bound services.
Getting a ticket to Lille, before ~2015 was a massive loophole and probably allowed a lot of illegal immigrants to enter the UK. In 2015 they basically closed the loophole with locking the last Std class carriage with security staff preventing you entry to the rest of the train.
I doubt many were able to enter that way, but AFAIK no figures were ever published. Before they finally stopped selling Brussels to Lille, there were dedicated carriages for these passengers, which therefore had to be empty after arrival in Lille.
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Technically, the operator in Belgium is NMBS/SNCB. However, the service is a by-product of the domestic TGV service of SNCF, who therefore determine most of its specifics.
Cloud Strife
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The loophole never actually existed in the way that the media claimed. If the train was available for intra-Schengen passengers, then there was always a border check at St Pancras to accompany the pre-departure checks at Lille. The French Police aux Frontieres also conducted on-board checks between Lille and Calais to catch people who hadn't correctly exited Schengen.
There was never a situation where people could just jump on Eurostar and leave Schengen/enter the UK without going through both an exit Schengen and entry UK control. The only issue was that the upon arrival in the UK, you could claim asylum, which was what the juxtaposed controls were intended to prevent.
They haven’t, but mothballing/not reopening the Kent stops was a cost measure rather than anything else.
IIRC the trains now leave St Pancras 6min later (eg xx04 not xx58 for Ebbsfleet), not sure about inbound.
Six minutes is neither here nor there. I'm not going to cease travelling by Eurostar if the trains take six minutes longer to stop at Stratford or Ebbsfleet.
Well, that's what the Ebbsfleet stop cost. I agree it's something and nothing.
Have the schedules slowed down slightly more recently? I'm sure that Paris used to be 2h15 but that they're now booked for an extra 5m.
ThameslinkUser
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It's more the impression that is given. You're 3 minutes out of London after joining a queue 90 mins earlier and you're already stopping. "Why couldn't these people travel the 6 mins and queue with me?" they'll ask.
The idea is to reduce those queues by taking the pressure off of St Pancras.
Perhaps in order to run 2tph between Paris and London - in addition to restoring the 1tph Brussels service - within the constraints St Pancras has, one train should run fast, and the other call at all stations (St Pancras, Stratford, Ebbsfleet, Ashford, Calais, Lille, Paris Nord). We just need a pro-European government who favour sustainable transport over helicopters to fund the customs/border staff.
Perhaps in order to run 2tph between Paris and London - in addition to restoring the 1tph Brussels service - within the constraints St Pancras has, one train should run fast, and the other call at all stations (St Pancras, Stratford, Ebbsfleet, Ashford, Calais, Lille, Paris Nord). We just need a pro-European government who favour sustainable transport over helicopters to fund the customs/border staff.
There is no realistic chance of the government funding facilities for the convenience of Eurostar, a foreign owned company.
As for 2tph all stops London to Paris and v/v? There wasn't anywhere near that kind of service even before the pandemic; Ebbsfleet was a morning only station for travel towards the continent with the first departure at 05:58 and last departure at 13:15 so it could be run on a single shift for the Police aux Frontières, security, etc. Ashford had 3tpd to Paris and 4 to Brussels. There just isn't the demand, and it'll only wind up end to end pax whose journey becomes greatly lengthened.
As for 2tph all stops London to Paris and v/v? There wasn't anywhere near that kind of service even before the pandemic; Ebbsfleet was a morning only station for travel towards the continent with the first departure at 05:58 and last departure at 13:15 so it could be run on a single shift for the Police aux Frontières, security, etc. Ashford had 3tpd to Paris and 4 to Brussels. There just isn't the demand, and it'll only wind up end to end pax whose journey becomes greatly lengthened.
Cloud Strife
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Honestly, all they need to do is transform the upper level of St Pancras into an extension of the departure lounge. There's a huge amount of pretty much wasted space between the end of the lines and the exits, and the Betjeman Arms would make an excellent Business Premier lounge. There's also another bar on the other side of the station on the upper level that could act as a second Business Premier lounge. Combine it with transforming the Euston Road entrance into a Business Premier-only entrance, and you've got a substantial increase in capacity without requiring any major changes to the station.
The talk of capacity restraints at St Pancras is simply because of the layout, nothing more. There's definitely space to add at least another train worth of passengers with only minor remodelling required.
More fool them. Go to Stratford and skip the queue! To be pedantic, it is six minutes rather than three.
Trainbike46
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Where did the slow-down happen? As far as I'm aware the St Pancras-Chunnel section has stayed the same.
Agreed, there is definitely opportunities to expand capacity further
Cloud Strife
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Well, the part of the underground area that is now Business Premier would be opened up, and the entire area upstairs would also have plenty of additional seating.
It really shouldn't be a problem. There's actually a lot of relatively wasted space on the upper level, and transforming the Euston Road entrance into a Business Premier-only entrance might also brighten up a rather dreary entrance.
While the idea of the bars at the upper level for everyone is commendable, it's just wasted space as far as an international terminal goes.
I'm pretty sure London-Brussels used to be 1h52' at some point with a non-stop train. I now see 1h57' for the non-stop trains, so it's basically extra buffer time.
Failed Unit
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The schedules have slowed down, I think it is more to make up for delays en-route.
Experience the week very good at both ends. From enterering the terminal to entering the lounge was about 10 minutes. Trains seemed reasonably full and not all passport stations were manned. This was my longest wait because they insist in Paris you go through the e-gates. I tell them my passport doesn't work in them, but they don't seem to believe you and watch you get sent for the manual check. Paris seems to have got better at scanning bagss as well. It does make you think that pre-covid the service used to be typically 2 per hour in late afternoon / early evening. I did used to avoid the services stopping at Ashford / Ebbsfleet. But when you did get on them in the scheme of a 2h20 journey you didn't seem to notice. With the slowing down of the service, you do stop at random places more often now.
Experience the week very good at both ends. From enterering the terminal to entering the lounge was about 10 minutes. Trains seemed reasonably full and not all passport stations were manned. This was my longest wait because they insist in Paris you go through the e-gates. I tell them my passport doesn't work in them, but they don't seem to believe you and watch you get sent for the manual check. Paris seems to have got better at scanning bagss as well. It does make you think that pre-covid the service used to be typically 2 per hour in late afternoon / early evening. I did used to avoid the services stopping at Ashford / Ebbsfleet. But when you did get on them in the scheme of a 2h20 journey you didn't seem to notice. With the slowing down of the service, you do stop at random places more often now.
BahrainLad
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IIRC Brussels in 1h48 and Paris in 2h13 was advertised when STP first opened. When Amsterdam started, the London-Brussels sector was timetabled at 1h48 but that was when the overall timing was 3h40 or so which no longer exists.
ThameslinkUser
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You’re slowing to the stop after 3.
I was on a London to Amsterdam train early this year that took 1 hour 45 mins to get to Brussels.
Trainbike46
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Presumably one of the trains that doesn't stop in Lille?
Yes it was. Impressive.
Astro_Orbiter
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I heard they're considering turning the Betchemen Arms into the UKBF station so that arrivals can just exit thru the glass doors at the ends of the platforms like in Paris. That would free up all of the downstairs area for departures.
BahrainLad
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That would be interesting. Presumably you’d have customs officers waiting on the platform and they could pull people to one side for checks…into the corridor where roughly the B Arms gent’s loos are??
The usage vs St Pancras would be negligible and the overhead in staffing it would be enormous.
Juxtaposed controls are an anachronism for rail, they were intended for conducting dog searches of HGVs boarding ferries.
It is the EU adding friction at the border removing the ability to travel at short notice.
UK didn't bother with passport stamping and ROI won't be involved in the new arrangements despite being outside Schengen.
It is unclear what problem the new arrangements are designed to fix. API introduced 15+ years ago was designed precisely to stop anyone on an 'exclude' list even getting into the air.
The Iproov entry system was as good as everyone had suggested when I tried it on Tuesday at St Pancras and I was through in a couple of minutes. Thanks for the suggestion to use this! It's a shame that it is not available for the return journey.
Incidentally, both my out and return trains were substituted with changed seat allocations. This has also happened on one leg of the previous three journeys that I've taken. I'm not sure if I've been unlucky or these are regular events.
Incidentally, both my out and return trains were substituted with changed seat allocations. This has also happened on one leg of the previous three journeys that I've taken. I'm not sure if I've been unlucky or these are regular events.
Good luck getting 30+ countries to cooperate and implement a project on the same conditions everywhere, this is one of the issues that got EES so delayed.
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I recieved an email that my trip has changed seat allocation, however, it's the same exact seat map so idk what that's about.
Usually, it's used to swap e300 with e320s AFAIK (I specifically booked my trip to take a e300, I would have been quite disapponted)
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