Oswestry Branch Railway Restoration - The Truth

[ac6000cw]

I would say its more like being given money to find out what tyres you need to buy

Yes - further down the news article it says:

The next step for the project is to engage with potential rail operators and put together a full business case.

...which I assume means the only funding being provided is to pay for work on the full business case.

 

[The Planner]

Yes - further down the news article it says:

...which I assume means the only funding being provided is to pay for work on the full business case.

I thought that too, but its vaguely worded as "funded to delivery", so funded to the point before delivery or funded to be delivered!?

 

[Western Lord]

The best option for rail travel to Oswestry is to forget about Gobowen and silly branch shuttles and build a new parkway station at Whittington. I imagine most of the travel demand would be to the south so a branch shuttle heading north is less than optimal.

 

[ac6000cw]

The best option for rail travel to Oswestry is to forget about Gobowen and silly branch shuttles and build a new parkway station at Whittington. I imagine most of the travel demand would be to the south so a branch shuttle heading north is less than optimal.

...or pave over the old formation between Gobowen and Oswestry and turn it into a dedicated bus road (plus maybe a cycleway), and use a small fleet of (maybe driverless?) electronically guided electric buses to provide a frequent shuttle between the two places. It's only about 2.5 miles between them anyway, and that would probably be far more useful overall to the two communities than a once-per-hour link using some sort of tram...

 

[Dr Day]

that would probably be far more useful overall to the two communities than a once-per-hour link using some sort of tram...

One would hope the Strategic Outline Business Case has assessed all potential alternatives to solve the identified transport problem, including these kinds of solutions. Must admit am surprised if heavy rail has come out as preferred at this stage, but reading between the lines this one only actually has funding for the next stage of outline business case ie further analysis on benefits/costs/initial design for a shorter list of options which possibly still includes bus-based alternatives.

 

[ac6000cw]

One would hope the Strategic Outline Business Case has assessed all potential alternatives to solve the identified transport problem, including these kinds of solutions. Must admit am surprised if heavy rail has come out as preferred at this stage, but reading between the lines this one only actually has funding for the next stage of outline business case ie further analysis on benefits/costs/initial design for a shorter list of options which possibly still includes bus-based alternatives.

See the comment from Bald Rick earlier in the thread:

Also, the strategic outline business case did not properly assess alternatives for improving bus services, dismissing them as they would need subsidising.

Honestly, the suggested light rail service is like an old-style 'Junction to Town' shuttle service, of which I think the Stourbridge Town link is currently the only survivor. All the others have gone over the decades because I assume they are very expensive to operate in relation to the revenue (and even the Stourbridge Town link has been threatened with closure in the past).

 

[stuu]

The best option for rail travel to Oswestry is to forget about Gobowen and silly branch shuttles and build a new parkway station at Whittington. I imagine most of the travel demand would be to the south so a branch shuttle heading north is less than optimal.

Or just put in few bus lanes and run a dedicated shuttle bus to Gobowen with integrated ticketing. Oswestry town centre is only 2.5 miles from a station, there's many places in medium sized towns that far from a station, and no-one would describe them as not having a station

 

[CambrianView]

Nevertheless, if anyone reads the completed application attached in this thread, it's clear that the project has widespread local support. Potentially this represents an investment of almost 15 million in a single track 3 mile service in a railway heritage company with very little land, and assets that amount to "Oliver" (an old steam train currently being restored), a guardsman's carriage, a deisel shunter and some carriages (amongst some other bits and bobs).

 

[Gloster]

Nevertheless, if anyone reads the completed application attached in this thread, it's clear that the project has widespread local support. Potentially this represents an investment of almost 15 million in a single track 3 mile service in a railway heritage company with very little land, and assets that amount to "Oliver" (an old steam train currently being restored), a guardsman's carriage, a deisel shunter and some carriages (amongst some other bits and bobs).

Just read this sentence again. (And I am not referring to the guardsman.) Of course it has widespread local support: who wouldn’t be happy to see large amounts of other people’s money poured into something that they will gain advantage from, even if not very much.

 

[ac6000cw]

Oswestry town centre is only 2.5 miles from a station, there's many places in medium sized towns that far from a station, and no-one would describe them as not having a station

I agree - some of the outer edges of Cambridge are that sort of distance from any of the two, soon to be three, railway stations. It's the same in places like Peterborough, Stevenage, and Norwich (just to pick a few from my area of the UK).

If you want to put Oswestry back on the railway map, just get Gobowen station renamed as 'Gobowen & Oswestry' or 'Gobowen for Oswestry'...

 

[Chester1]

The best option for rail travel to Oswestry is to forget about Gobowen and silly branch shuttles and build a new parkway station at Whittington. I imagine most of the travel demand would be to the south so a branch shuttle heading north is less than optimal.

There is railway owned land around Gobowen station that could be used to significantly increase the number of parking spaces. That would be an affordable place to start.

The A5 crossing will kill the BCR of any proposal. The Cambrian could make it work by terminating passenger services just south of it and only using it for empty rolling stock movements. Even that would require a large number of people and probably need to be done in middle of the night to avoid traffic jams.

 

[Basil Jet]

The best option for rail travel to Oswestry is to forget about Gobowen and silly branch shuttles and build a new parkway station at Whittington.

Drive from Oswestry Castle to Gobowen Station = 2.6 miles, 6 minutes
Drive from Oswestry Castle to likely Whittington site = 2.3 miles, 6 minutes
Doesn't improve Oswestry's situation perceptibly!

I imagine most of the travel demand would be to the south so a branch shuttle heading north is less than optimal.

Some of the trains from Birmingham to Shrewsbury could be extended to Oswestry via a reversal at Gobowen.

 

[Bald Rick]

This:

Cash pledged in full as Oswestry to Gobowen rail link to cost between £5.3m and £14.6m

A light railway linking Oswestry with the mainline at Gobowen would cost anything between £5.3 and £14.6 million to built, with operating costs estimated at £196,000 a year.

www.shropshirestar.com

I thought that too, but its vaguely worded as "funded to delivery", so funded to the point before delivery or funded to be delivered!?

Aha. You spotted the carefully written English.

I would expect funding to completion to say ‘funding for delivery’, ‘funding for construction’ or ’funding to implement’.

‘Funded to delivery’ sounds to me very much like “funding up to a point where a decison is taken on delivery”.


If it was funded for construction at this point, based on the SOBC, it would be a first for any rail project of this size or type, let alone one with suspect cost estimates. It would also break several rules about funding for capital investment by Government.

 

[D6130]

Nevertheless, if anyone reads the completed application attached in this thread, it's clear that the project has widespread local support. Potentially this represents an investment of almost 15 million in a single track 3 mile service in a railway heritage company with very little land, and assets that amount to "Oliver" (an old steam train currently being restored), a guardsman's carriage, a deisel shunter and some carriages (amongst some other bits and bobs).

Do I recall correctly that CHR has two ex-Northern 2 car class 144 DMUs?

 

[Matt P]

The best option for rail travel to Oswestry is to forget about Gobowen and silly branch shuttles and build a new parkway station at Whittington. I imagine most of the travel demand would be to the south so a branch shuttle heading north is less than optimal.

The best option would be to correct the mistakes of Oswestry's forefathers by building a new section of line branching off the Shrewsbury to Chester line somewhere near Rednall to somewhere just south of the point where the Oswestry to Llynclys line crosses the A483, redouble the track between there and Oswestry station and then either:

a) double the existing Oswestry to Gobowen line, with a flyover built for the A5 to eliminate the level crossing on the Oswestry bypass; or

b) double the branch from Oswestry Station to a point just south of the A5 and then build new section of line that joins the Shrewsbury to Chester line at Daywell, just north of the existing A5 flyover.

I appreciate that this type of railway project goes way beyond something that a regional route in the UK is ever going to see. However bringing the main line into the heart of Oswestry would do more to encourage rail usage that brining back the Oswestry to Gobowen shuttle.

One can but dream. However if I ever win big on the Euro Millions, this IS happening!!

 

[Bald Rick]

However if I ever win big on the Euro Millions, this IS happening!!

You‘ll need to win a few times…

 

[Matt P]

If you want to put Oswestry back on the railway map, just get Gobowen station renamed as 'Gobowen & Oswestry' or 'Gobowen for Oswestry'...

Someone already thought of that a while back.

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You‘ll need to win a few times…

I was banking on a multi rollover week.

I'd probably also need an exemption to be able to shoot a few NIMBYs as well. But other than that, this is basically a workable plan.....!!

 

[CambrianView]

It's really the level crossings that cause the expense. Prior to being granted the TWAO Cambrian Heritage Railways Ltd were publically saying that as the line was built before the A5, the railway had priority at all crossings. They also stated that the barriers could come down, a tram cross over the A5, then the barriers lifted all within 2 minutes.

There are more than 2 level crossings on the line that is to be restored that even the ORR were unaware of just prior to having no objection to the granting of the TWAO, as this letter highlights:

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Just read this sentence again. (And I am not referring to the guardsman.) Of course it has widespread local support: who wouldn’t be happy to see large amounts of other people’s money poured into something that they will gain advantage from, even if not very much.

It's a bit unfair to expect such a small scale heritage railway company to pay for such a large scale restoration project. Besides, the company exists because it was set up by local money from Shropshire County Council. Of course, the SOBC was funded by your money via the Department for Transport's "Restore Your Railway" application. And, you also paid half the fee for the TWAO application via the Department of Transport's "Sustainable Transport Fund".

A lot of Government money goes around in circles.

 

[Gloster]

It's a bit unfair to expect such a small scale heritage railway company to pay for such a large scale restoration project. Besides, the company exists because it was set up by local money from Shropshire County Council. Of course, the SOBC was funded by your money via the Department for Transport's "Restore Your Railway" application. And, you also paid half the fee for the TWAO application via the Department of Transport's "Sustainable Transport Fund".

A lot of Government money goes around in circles.

It’s a bit unfair to expect the taxpayer, both national and local, to pay for a restoration project which is going to benefit few except a small scale heritage railway company. For that matter, it is a bit unfair on those other railways that raised the money they needed by their own efforts, even to the costs required to build a tunnel.

 

[CambrianView]

It’s a bit unfair to expect the taxpayer, both national and local, to pay for a restoration project which is going to benefit few except a small scale heritage railway company. For that matter, it is a bit unfair on those other railways that raised the money they needed by their own efforts, even to the costs required to build a tunnel.

So...are you saying that it was a misuse of tax payers money to grant part payment for Cambrian Heritage Railways Ltd TWAO via the Department for Transport's "Sustainable Transport Fund"?

 

[Gloster]

So...are you saying that it was a misuse of tax payers money to grant part payment for Cambrian Heritage Railways Ltd TWAO via the Department for Transport's "Sustainable Transport Fund"?

No, although I think that cooler heads should have seen at an earlier stage that this is not suitable for the fund. However, in my opinion, this is clearly a non-starter and totally unsuitable, i.e. would be a waste of the fund’s money, and no more should be spent.

 

[CambrianView]

I have to point out what has been acheived since the line was purchased by Shropshire County Council in 2005: The authority has completely upgraded the pedestrian level crossing at Coney Green (very close to the Oswestry railway station), gating it so pedestrians can't get over the line whilst existing services are operating, CHR have made good use of a section of the Oswetry Station using at as cafe, before it fell into a state of disrepair, they remade the platform in Oswestry and with the help of the unemployed and Payback Team they relaid about a mile of line all the way down to the Weston Brewery.

 

[AlanL]

The Governments 'restoring your railway' £500 million fund certainly has not been fully spent (only funding for developing business cases/planning etc has actually been spent in England) so there is significant funding left to be spent from The pot -The Scottish Government/Councils have 'successfully' built/restored/reopened both the Border line and the Leven branch recently - both quite big projects!! So Oswestry and other small projects could be delivered by a Govt with vision, ambition and better overall management of projects.

 

[Bald Rick]

The Governments 'restoring your railway' £500 million fund certainly has not been fully spent (only funding for developing business cases/planning etc has actually been spent in England)

This is incorrect.

Money has been spent on Okehampton and the Northumberland line, and committed to some station reopenings that are in final stages of development.

 

[A0]

The Governments 'restoring your railway' £500 million fund certainly has not been fully spent (only funding for developing business cases/planning etc has actually been spent in England) so there is significant funding left to be spent from The pot -The Scottish Government/Councils have 'successfully' built/restored/reopened both the Border line and the Leven branch recently - both quite big projects!! So Oswestry and other small projects could be delivered by a Govt with vision, ambition and better overall management of projects.

Define "recently" - the first feasibility study for Borders railway was 24 years ago in 2000. The full business case was produced in 2004 - so 20 years ago and the final business case was produced in 2013 - and as Wikipedia helpfully points out

In February 2013, the final business case was released by the Scottish Government, which showed a benefit-cost ratio of just 0.5:1.[44] This led the journal Local Transport Today to comment that the line was "one of the worst-performing major transport projects to be funded in recent times."

Borders Railway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Borders Rail is often cited by those outside of Scotland as an example of how these things should be done - but in reality it was entirely a political project with a *very poor* benefits case. I've always maintained (on other posts) that the one thing which made Borders unique was the distance to the nearest railhead - e.g Galashiels is 40 miles to Berwick and 30 miles to Newcraighall - for Hawick it is now ~15 miles to its nearest railhead where it was much, much further before. This is where schemes like Oswestry fall down - Gobowen station is 3 miles away. For a fraction of the cost of a rail reinstatement a dedicated rail-coach link could be put into place with through ticketing for a fraction of the cost of the rail reinstatement - which is *exactly* what would be done in other countries such as France, where there are no shortage of examples where there is a dedicated bus / coach link and no realistic chance of reinstating a rail link.

 

[WAO]

View attachment 159576
Someone already thought of that a while back.

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I was banking on a multi rollover week.

I'd probably also need an exemption to be able to shoot a few NIMBYs as well. But other than that, this is basically a workable plan.....!!

Of course for station signage, Oswestry could have had the services of the fabled Corporal Signwriter "Foggy" Dewhurst, of "Last of the Summer Wine" fame, who spent WW2 there, "fighting the Japanese".

WAO

 

[CambrianView]

Of course for station signage, Oswestry could have had the services of the fabled Corporal Signwriter "Foggy" Dewhurst, of "Last of the Summer Wine" fame, who spent WW2 there, "fighting the Japanese".

WAO

...as played by Brian Wilde who, earlier in his career played Hobart, a man who enters a catatonic state from seeing visions of a hideous monster in "Night of the Demon".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2024 ==

I thought this thread could do with some more historic facts and figures regarding costs of restoring the Oswestry line:

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2024 ==

In 2007 Shropshire County Council and Oswestry Borough Council were part funders of the Scott Wilson report that looked into reopening the Oswestry branch line. It recomends:

"Part of the remit of this study was the ‘identification of the potential market for rail along this corridor
to and from the Chester –Shrewsbury Line, when the heritage railway is established and running from
Gobowen through Park Hall to Oswestry.’ We believe there is little potential market for passenger
traffic on this line, for the following reasons:
• Both Oswestry and Gobowen are well served by several bus companies. Oswestry has recently
constructed a bus station which offers passengers a ten-minute journey to Gobowen at at least
half-hourly intervals throughout the day Monday through Saturday.
• The line from Oswestry to Gobowen crosses the A5 at a train-operated level crossing. This
crossing was installed when the road was far less busy than it is now. Crossing this road would
add several minutes to the journey between Oswestry and Gobowen, and put it at a severe
disadvantage in comparison to bus service.
• While we have no passenger demand information for a heritage railway on this line, we believe
the effect of nearly a dozen other heritage railways in the immediate area (including the wellknown
and highly developed Ffestiniog and Talyllyn Railways) will be significant in either
increasing or reducing demand. On one hand, a proposed Oswestry line may draw passengers
who have already chosen to visit the area to see other railways; on the other hand, it is possible
that the heritage railway market in the area is saturated, and demand is likely to be filled by older,
more well known and more developed attractions.
Although in our analysis it is not worth considering the line for passenger operations, nevertheless
Shropshire County Council must make some decision as to how the property is to be used. Various
parties have expressed interest in the following options:
• Cycle path (to be shared with rail operations)
• Heritage railway (two potential operators)
• Passenger railway (Parry People Mover and others)
• Freight railway (quarry)
• Freight railway (other)
Several of these parties have claimed that these options are incompatible, or mutually exclusive.
We recommend that the following work be undertaken in order to assist SCC in making decisions
about the disposal of the line:
• Review and evaluate the expressions of interest in operating the line that SCC has received
• Consult representatives of each of the following stakeholders:
Passenger railway:
• Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Rail Passenger Action (passenger railway)
• Other parties who have expressed interest to SCC in operating passenger vehicles on the line
(e.g. Parry People Movers)
Freight railway:
• Tanat Valley Light Railway Company
• Hanson
CHESTER – SHREWSBURY RAIL PARTNERSHIP
Final Report
A012027 Page 182 of 185 23 March 2007
• Freightliner
• English Welsh & Scottish Railway Limited
• Other operators (GB, DRS, etc.)
Heritage railway:
• Cambrian Railways Society/Cambrian Railways Trust
• Shrewsbury Railway Heritage Trust
Other:
• Shropshire County Council, projects group
• Oswestry Borough Council
• Highways Agency
• HMRI/ORR (level and other crossings)
• Sustrans and/or local advocates for the cycleway option
with the objective of determining their aspirations and views of the issues, and understanding what
sorts of tradeoffs or compromises would be acceptable if necessary
• Review the property boundaries and lay out possible routes and rights of way for rail
operations and a cycleway
• Review and make recommendations with respect to existing and proposed level crossings,
including preliminary cost estimates of any suggested improvements
• Address connections with the national rail network at Gobowen station and with other
transport modes at existing or proposed locations
• Address legal/liability/TWA Order issues
• Assess the potential market for a heritage railway in the area
• Outline and assess the requirements for operating the line as a community railway
• Prepare preliminary cost estimates of proposed options
• Prepare and present a draft report to SCC and other interested parties
• Incorporate comments into a final report, which can be presented at a public or stakeholder
meeting"

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jun 2024 ==

Define "recently" - the first feasibility study for Borders railway was 24 years ago in 2000. The full business case was produced in 2004 - so 20 years ago and the final business case was produced in 2013 - and as Wikipedia helpfully points out

Borders Railway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Borders Rail is often cited by those outside of Scotland as an example of how these things should be done - but in reality it was entirely a political project with a *very poor* benefits case. I've always maintained (on other posts) that the one thing which made Borders unique was the distance to the nearest railhead - e.g Galashiels is 40 miles to Berwick and 30 miles to Newcraighall - for Hawick it is now ~15 miles to its nearest railhead where it was much, much further before. This is where schemes like Oswestry fall down - Gobowen station is 3 miles away. For a fraction of the cost of a rail reinstatement a dedicated rail-coach link could be put into place with through ticketing for a fraction of the cost of the rail reinstatement - which is *exactly* what would be done in other countries such as France, where there are no shortage of examples where there is a dedicated bus / coach link and no realistic chance of reinstating a rail link.

I think Shropshire County Council purchased the entire existing Oswestry branch line in 2005 (8 miles or so) in 2005. My understanding is that the authority also owns Oswestry Station, Gobowen Station, the works yard and museum in Oswestry. The line has been leased to Cambrian Heritages Railways Ltd (created by Shropshire County Council) for 50 years. My understanding is the CHR only owns a work shed in Weston. So this is very much a local authority restoration project.

 

[A0]

I think Shropshire County Council purchased the entire existing Oswestry branch line in 2005 (8 miles or so) in 2005. My understanding is that the authority also owns Oswestry Station, Gobowen Station, the works yard and museum in Oswestry. The line has been leased to Cambrian Heritages Railways Ltd (created by Shropshire County Council) for 50 years. My understanding is the CHR only owns a work shed in Weston. So this is very much a local authority restoration project.

Bit in bold - your understanding is not correct.

From July 2017:

Volunteer group buys Gobowen railway station buildings

The group raised the £150,000 asking price for the two buildings.

www.bbc.co.uk

A volunteer group has successfully raised money to buy buildings at a Shropshire railway station.
The Gobowen Area Improvement Project needed to raise £150,000 to buy the buildings that date back to 1846.

 

[Bald Rick]

I thought this thread could do with some more historic facts and figures regarding costs of restoring the Oswestry line:

Interestign post - as there are no facts or figures regarding the costs !

 

[CambrianView]

Interestign post - as there are no facts or figures regarding the costs !

Well, I've uploaded actual documents, but I do take your point.

Shropshire Council will be holding a presentation regarding the restoration of the exterior of Oswestry Railway Station this Wednesday, so there may be some more information on that score.

As to the SOBC, it was completed and submitted to the Department for Transport in the autumn of 2022 and apparently the Department responded soon after. I don't know whether or if the DfT has put their response into the public domain yet, but I've put in a FOIR for it.