Herefordshire & Worcestershire

[Class172]

I know that the Worcester area is getting resignalled but are there any other plans to get rid of the bottlenecks in the county:

• Semaphore signalling at Worcester, Droitwich Spa & Malvern (when?)
• ABS (absolute block)
• Single line section between Droitwich and Bromsgrove - this seriously reduces number of New St trains
• Single line section between Malvern and Hereford
• Awkward layout at Worcester - limits number of trains

Also, what are the prospects of any of the lines being electrified? And are any platforms going to be extended? - I'd like to see Worcester Fgt St and Droitwich extended to 9 23m coaches.

And before anyone mentions anything about Bromsgrove, I already know what's going on there.

I know this bit doesnt really belong in the infrastructure thread, but it doesnt really warrant its own thread:
Furthermore, with the completion of evergreen 3 (whenever it is) and Cotswold line re-doubling, I would like to see a direct service to London for Droitwich Spa - it is quite annoying knowing that there are services just 7 miles away in Worcester and Kidderminster. Either Chiltern can extend their Marylebone-Kidderminster services to Droitwich Spa, giving an estimated journey time to London of about 2h 35mins after evergreen 3 (only a guess). Or FGW could (when the doubling is complete) create some new services to Droitwich giving times of about 2h 20mins to Paddington (at a guess) - this could even go all the way to B'ham Snow Hill (like the NSE service in the 1980/90s). This would therefore be able to compete with the New St service with the added bonus of not having to wait at a station and having a direct service.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

And before anyone mentions anything about Bromsgrove, I already know what's going on there; I feel the rest of Worcestershire is being neglected (with the exception of Cotswold line). In 2008/09, 427000 passengers used Bromsgrove (pop 35,000); 432000 Droitwich Spa (pop 25000); 1469000 Worcester Fgt St. (pop 95000). After all, it's the only area in England not to have a proper intercity service (I'd say Paddington service doesn't qualify).

Proper IC service? East Lancs, Lincolnshire and Shropshire would kill for even four trains a day. Like it or not, Paddington-Worcester is an InterCity service. As for populations: Blackburn 110,000, Telford 140,000 and Shrewsbury 70,000, all with nothing. Personally, especially when it becomes hourly, I would say Herefs & Worcs has a very good London service considering the size and sparse area it serves!

 

[Class172]

Proper IC service? East Lancs, Lincolnshire and Shropshire would kill for even four trains a day. Like it or not, Paddington-Worcester is an InterCity service. As for populations: Blackburn 110,000, Telford 140,000 and Shrewsbury 70,000, all with nothing. Personally, especially when it becomes hourly, I would say Herefs & Worcs has a very good London service considering the size and sparse area it serves!

I suppose, though isnt shopshire getting a virgin service at some point or am I going cukcoo!

The point is when, yes when the service becomes hourly then that would be good

It also appears that I worded it wrong so the wrong meaning is conveyed

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I suppose, though isnt shopshire getting a virgin service at some point or am I going cukcoo!

The point is when, yes when the service becomes hourly then that would be good

Virgin proposed (at WSMR's height) Euston-Nuneaton-Coleshill Pkwy-Wolves-Telford-Shrewsbury, but they withdrew it about a month later.

You've only gotta wait six months for the new timetable, meanwhile, enjoy an August of closures

 

[Ivo]

After all, it's the only area in England not to have a proper intercity service (I'd say Paddington service doesn't qualify).

"The only area in England not to have a proper Intercity service"? As Matt says, the Cotswold HSTs certainly counts as an InterCity service! Even using the literal meaning of InterCity, the line runs London - Oxford - Worcester - Hereford, and you can throw Reading in there as a major settlement that could well be a city in 12 or so months anyway! Further, suppose the Worcester Parkway idea came good. Would you still say there was no InterCity service? Heck, there is even a named service on that route, the Cathedrals Express (or something like that anyway); can you name any on-IC routes that have named trains?

Also, this much *should* be obvious, but we'll see. The area covered by the Garden of England DVLA area, Kent and Sussex, has what exactly? The Eurostar? The Brighton Express? The Gatwick Express? Sorry, but ever since DafT/XC withdrew the Brighton to Manchester service, that area has been completely devoid of InterCity routes. And before anyone mentions HS1, HS1 is a commuter service that just happens to be very fast! Indeed, again speaking literally, the only city that HS1 serves outside the M25 is Canterbury.

Further, as Matt says, there are plenty of areas larger than H&W that have no London service. In addition to those he mentions, you have the likes of Huddersfield, Birkenhead, Blackpool and others, and also Sunderland, Bradford and even Hull with a limited-at-best service! In fact, Hull alone can probably wipe the floor with H&W in terms of its needs not being fulfilled; the same could also apply for Sunderland depending on your take on the Tyne & Wear Metro (which, having now been on it, does not feel sufficient to be the major service to Sunderland).

Lastly, electrification. The XC route was planned in Beeching's time, but never happened. I am sure you appreciate that other areas have a greater need for juice than H&W; even before the blindingly obvious examples of TPE and the MML (and of course the GWML and others which are imminent), you have the likes of the Chase Line, the North Downs Line, Swansea and more.

My home area has never had an InterCity service, and is the largest area in the country to which this applies. As far as I know, the best Southend has ever had is Luton...

 

[Class172]

East Lancs

I suppose you'd know considering you live there, I have no knowedge of the railways in the NW

I have removed the 'controversial' bit

I didn't know cathedrals express was used, I thought that was used on charter trains

On the subject of electrification, the chase line would be ideal as it would free up a load of 170s and would provide a diversionary route for the WCML

 

[merlodlliw]

I suppose, though isnt shopshire getting a virgin service at some point or am I going cukcoo!

The point is when, yes when the service becomes hourly then that would be good

It also appears that I worded it wrong so the wrong meaning is conveyed

Nothing in the pipeline at this time,and the entire 2012 timetable is going out to Councils & others for feedback soon, I don't see a VT out of Shrewsbury in 2012.
MPs in Salop are asking for it to be part of any new WCML franchise, that's all.

Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I know that the Worcester area is getting resignalled but are there any other plans to get rid of the bottlenecks in the county:

• Semaphore signalling at Worcester, Droitwich Spa & Malvern (when?)
• ABS (absolute block)
• Single line section between Droitwich and Bromsgrove - this seriously reduces number of New St trains
• Single line section between Malvern and Hereford
• Awkward layout at Worcester - limits number of trains

Also, what are the prospects of any of the lines being electrified? And are any platforms going to be extended? - I'd like to see Worcester Fgt St and Droitwich extended to 9 23m coaches.

And before anyone mentions anything about Bromsgrove, I already know what's going on there.

I know this bit doesnt really belong in the infrastructure thread, but it doesnt really warrant its own thread:
Furthermore, with the completion of evergreen 3 (whenever it is) and Cotswold line re-doubling, I would like to see a direct service to London for Droitwich Spa - it is quite annoying knowing that there are services just 7 miles away in Worcester and Kidderminster. Either Chiltern can extend their Marylebone-Kidderminster services to Droitwich Spa, giving an estimated journey time to London of about 2h 35mins after evergreen 3 (only a guess). Or FGW could (when the doubling is complete) create some new services to Droitwich giving times of about 2h 20mins to Paddington (at a guess) - this could even go all the way to B'ham Snow Hill (like the NSE service in the 1980/90s). This would therefore be able to compete with the New St service with the added bonus of not having to wait at a station and having a direct service.

How busy is the Hereford/Malvern line? one an hour each way,plus the odd FGW

 

[Class172]

It's just the single line section between Malvern & Hereford does slow te journey down, there aren't many trains until you reach Worcester.

 

[TheWalrus]

Can trains from worcester be terminated and sent back at droitwich?

 

[The Planner]

Nothing in the pipeline at this time,and the entire 2012 timetable is going out to Councils & others for feedback soon, I don't see a VT out of Shrewsbury in 2012.

There isnt, we offered the 2012 timetable the other week.

 

[Class172]

Can trains from worcester be terminated and sent back at droitwich?

Trains can be terminated at both Worcester and Droitwich. At Droitwich there is a crossover at the station and two stabling/goods loops to facilitate terminating trains.

 

[TheWalrus]

Seeing as its only 8 mins from shrub hill, it shouldnt be too difficult to extend a peak time train there!

 

[Class172]

Seeing as its only 8 mins from shrub hill, it shouldnt be too difficult to extend a peak time train there!

Especially when the services are increased after the doubling. The legnth isn't a problem, it can fit 6 23m carriages so it will take 166s and 180s no problem.

 

[TheWalrus]

I was thinking more IEP…
It should be ok with 5 26m then!

 

[Tomnick]

Neither goods loop at Droitwich looks too handy for turning back a terminating train - the easiest shunt appears to be to change ends north of the junction (on either route) then back across the trailing crossover to work back to Worcester. Shunting into the Up loop would involve changing ends again once you've got across to the Up platform, and the Down loop doesn't look all that easy to get back out of!

 

[Class172]

Neither goods loop at Droitwich looks too handy for turning back a terminating train - the easiest shunt appears to be to change ends north of the junction (on either route) then back across the trailing crossover to work back to Worcester. Shunting into the Up loop would involve changing ends again once you've got across to the Up platform, and the Down loop doesn't look all that easy to get back out of!

What I meant is that the crossover is used for terminating the trains; switching them to the other side. The goods loops would be in case a train would need to be stabled overnight at all.

 

[TheWalrus]

I was thinking extend the 1750 pad-wos to droitwich then send it back to london. Or maybe stay overnight or back to worcester for the morning run down to london. Depends on the logistics but ill look into it.