Lumo only trains

[Miry]

Hi I have a question about Lumo only tickets. I bought an open return from King’s cross to Newcastle

I decided to return the following day and pitched up thinking I could board any train! My mistake I realise now..

My question is why is this not more widely advertised I feel as though I was trapped, having boarded the train I found a seat so it wasn’t fully booked only to be told when we were at Doncaster that I had to buy a new ticket for £195!

A stupid and expensive mistake, I said out loud! But I offered to get off the train only to discover they run from Edinburgh and only stop at Newcastle!

I have not used this line before so I was surprised that this isn’t flagged up so it is more obvious.

Anyway the ticket collector said I could maybe get a refund on my now redundant return portion of the ticket? Has anyone done this successfully?

Grateful for any input. I accept it was my mistake but I object to not being able to rectify it by leaving the train and getting the Lumo one..? what a really crappy system it’s like they want to rip you off!!

 

[JonathanH]

You used a LNER train with a Lumo ticket? What are you asking to be flagged up?

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi I have a question about Lumo only tickets. I bought an open return from King’s cross to Newcastle. I decided to return the following day and pitched up thinking I could board any train! My mistake I realise now.. My question is why is this not more widely advertised I feel as though I was trapped, having boarded the train I found a seat so it wasn’t fully booked only to be told when we were at Doncaster that I had to buy a new ticket for £195! a stupid and expensive mistake I said out loud.!! but I offered to get off the train only to discover they run from Edinburgh and only stop at Newcastle’! I have not used this line before so I was surprised that this isn’t flagged up so it is more obvious. Anyway the ticket collector said I could maybe get a refund on my now redundant return portion of the ticket? Has anyone done this successfully?.. grateful for any input. I accept it was my mistake but I object to not being able to rectify it by leaving the train and getting the Lumo one..? what a really crappy system it’s like they want to rip you off!!

Just so we know what we're dealing with - you bought a LUMO ONLY ticket, and then used it on an LNER train?

I'm not sure why you object to not being able to leave the train at Doncaster and catch a Lumo one, as you were told, Lumo don't stop there.

You may have a refund right (less an admin fee) on the return portion of the ticket - could you let us know the cost of it and where you bought it from? We can calculate how much you may be due.

 

[Merseysider]

It reads as though you boarded an LNER train with a Lumo ticket?

LNER abolished flexible return tickets on this route, meaning the only return fares available are those restricted to Lumo, who run a smattering of trains at random times.

The restrictions on the ticket are usually made clear before purchase - if you feel it wasn’t clear what you were buying, it would help to know where you bought the ticket.

 

[Snow1964]

Did you buy (an any operator) open return, or a Lumo only return

We need to see a copy of the ticket or purchase confirmation (with the reference/ sequence number blanked out), to clarify.

Trying to work out if you accidentally or unknowingly bought a restricted ticket, or not.

 

[JonathanH]

Did you buy (an any operator) open return, or a Lumo only return

There is no any operator 'open return' from Newcastle to London.

 

[WestAnglian]

Hi I have a question about Lumo only tickets. I bought an open return from King’s cross to Newcastle. I decided to return the following day and pitched up thinking I could board any train! My mistake I realise now.. My question is why is this not more widely advertised I feel as though I was trapped, having boarded the train I found a seat so it wasn’t fully booked only to be told when we were at Doncaster that I had to buy a new ticket for £195! a stupid and expensive mistake I said out loud.!! but I offered to get off the train only to discover they run from Edinburgh and only stop at Newcastle’! I have not used this line before so I was surprised that this isn’t flagged up so it is more obvious. Anyway the ticket collector said I could maybe get a refund on my now redundant return portion of the ticket? Has anyone done this successfully?.. grateful for any input. I accept it was my mistake but I object to not being able to rectify it by leaving the train and getting the Lumo one..? what a really crappy system it’s like they want to rip you off!!

Were there no announcements? I travelled from Edinburgh to Kings Cross this week and the 'if you've got a Lumo only ticket then get off or pay again' messages were incessant.

 

[yorkie]

If the return portion is completely unused, you can get a refund from the original retailer.

The amount due is the difference between the return price paid (£178) and the single fare (£89), less admin fee (likely £5), i.e. £94 in total.

Where did you buy the ticket exactly? Was it online (if so, which website?), from a ticket machine, or somewhere else?

 

[Adam Williams]

If the return portion is completely unused, you can get a refund from the original retailer.

The amount due is the difference between the return price paid (£178) and the single fare (£89), less admin fee (likely £10), i.e. £89 in total.

Where did you buy the ticket exactly? Was it online (if so, which website?), from a ticket machine, or somewhere else?

£5 admin fee, surely?

 

[mangyiscute]

My question is why is this not more widely advertised

To potentially try and answer this question, a lot of people complain about the number of announcements on trains and in stations and think that these announcements should be removed, so perhaps the standard "this is an LNER train if you have a ticket that says "Lumo only" you cannot take it" message was not said?
Similarly, in ticketing apps, if there were big pop ups saying "this ticket is valid on lumo trains only " or something along those lines, regular users would complain about the waste of time of having to see a pop up every time they booked a ticket.

It reads to me, however, that op did not realise their ticket said Lumo only on it, so this wouldn't have helped (unless op heard the announcement, thought "let me double check my ticket" and then realised it said lumo only on it.)
The issue here seems to be that wherever op got the ticket from did not clearly state that the ticket is valid only on lumo services, or that op missed where it stated this. This is why it would be very useful to know what format the ticket was in and where it was purchased to be able to determine whether it was user error or if there is a greater issue of clearer information needing to be shown when tickets are purchased. Many apps nowadays don't even make it clear enough that with off peak tickets you can take other trains, since plenty of people don't realise this, so showing clear operator restrictions seems unlikely currently.

 

[dosxuk]

I can certainly see how someone fails to notice that a return ticket is for only Lumo services. On the Forum's ticket site, the restriction is only mentioned once, in small print, once you've added it to your basket.

On the ticket selection grid, there's no mention of Lumo only.

And even if you click through to the ticket restrictions, again, no mention of the operator restriction.

This ticket is sold as an Anytime Return - I think the vast majority of people would assume that that means you can travel on any train.

 

[Adam Williams]

I can certainly see how someone fails to notice that a return ticket is for only Lumo services. On the Forum's ticket site, the restriction is only mentioned once, in small print, once you've added it to your basket.

On the ticket selection grid, there's no mention of Lumo only.

And even if you click through to the ticket restrictions, again, no mention of the operator restriction.

This ticket is sold as an Anytime Return - I think the vast majority of people would assume that that means you can travel on any train.

Of course, given the data maintained by the operator for route 00562 is completely misleading, and suggests that an Anytime walk-up ticket is instead an Advance that's tied down to specific booked services, perhaps making it more prominent is also fraught with issues.

 

[Trainbike46]

I can certainly see how someone fails to notice that a return ticket is for only Lumo services. On the Forum's ticket site, the restriction is only mentioned once, in small print, once you've added it to your basket.

On the ticket selection grid, there's no mention of Lumo only.

And even if you click through to the ticket restrictions, again, no mention of the operator restriction.

This ticket is sold as an Anytime Return - I think the vast majority of people would assume that that means you can travel on any train.

I actually think that is pretty clear, though the ticket restriction screen should list that it is only valid on LUMO services (@yorkie and others, anything you can do with that for the forum's website at least?)

Though the OP may of course have bought their ticket elsewhere, if they could specify more knowledgeable people than me may be able to advise on refund options.

 

[30907]

I actually think that is pretty clear, though the ticket restriction screen should list that it is only valid on LUMO services (@yorkie and others, anything you can do with that for the forum's website at least?)

I suspect this is a standardised description for an Anytime fare and can't be tweaked for operator etc restrictions?

To cover all eventualities, you would need a sentence like:

"If your ticket mentions a specific company, you can only use that company's trains. If you are claiming a Railcard discount, your ticket may only be valid after a certain time - check the rules for your Railcard."

 

[JGurney]

I can certainly see how someone fails to notice that a return ticket is for only Lumo services.

This ticket is sold as an Anytime Return - I think the vast majority of people would assume that that means you can travel on any train.

Quite so. While I would have read the details carefully when booking, I was certainly under the impression that a ticket called "anytime" could be used on any train.

 

[JonathanH]

Quite so. While I would have read the details carefully when booking, I was certainly under the impression that a ticket called "anytime" could be used on any train.

A "Lumo only" anytime return can be used on any Lumo train without a time restriction, but not other operators.

 

[dosxuk]

A "Lumo only" anytime return can be used on any Lumo train without a time restriction, but not other operators.

I'm not sure it can - the route restriction states it's only valid on booked Lumo services - that certainly implies you need a reservation for the service you travel on.

At the end of the day, this mess is caused by LNERs "simplification" of fares removing the generic return tickets. If you just want an open return from Newcastle to London and go to book one, you will be offered one, but in the small print - that nobody reads for tickets they've booked hundreds of times in the past and are specifically after the ticket with the last restrictions - you find out you can only use it on a tiny number if services a day - not whenever is convenient.

 

[mangyiscute]

I'm not sure it can - the route restriction states it's only valid on booked Lumo services - that certainly implies you need a reservation for the service you travel on.

I'm almost certain that it is fine to use on any lumo train, you don't need a reservation - I've taken lumo trains without a reservation before and it's been totally fine.

At the end of the day, this mess is caused by LNERs "simplification" of fares removing the generic return tickets. If you just want an open return from Newcastle to London and go to book one, you will be offered one, but in the small print - that nobody reads for tickets they've booked hundreds of times in the past and are specifically after the ticket with the last restrictions - you find out you can only use it on a tiny number if services a day - not whenever is convenient.

To give LNER credit, the simplification from removing return tickets is beneficial in quite a few cases, I have bought the tickets quite often when returning from somewhere having bought a separate outbound ticket to a different place, or perhaps I'll buy a cheap outbound ticket for a day out, unsure where I'll be returning from when I book but thanks to the single tickets actually being half the price of what the return was, I know that I can just buy a single to get back home from wherever I end up and I won't be paying more. Having single tickets 10p less than return is far worse than having no return tickets, as it will cause a lot more people to have to pay more.

 

[yorkie]

Let's not go down the single leg pricing discussion again; it's been done to death in previous threads, thanks.

 

[Watershed]

Quite so. While I would have read the details carefully when booking, I was certainly under the impression that a ticket called "anytime" could be used on any train.

In rail-industry lingo, "Anytime" merely means that there are no time restrictions (although even this isn't always true in some scenarios). It doesn't mean that there are no route or operator restrictions.

There is a fair bit that could be done to clarify things, I agree. That being said, the fact remains that it was correct - even if harsh - for the OP to be required to pay for a new ticket as their "Lumo only" ticket was not valid on the LNER service they boarded.