notmyrealname
Member
Good point, I did wonder that earlier on. I don't think we've had clarification from the OP but I think the language thing could be a problem.
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Missuse of freedom pass
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I was getting the feeling that it was not the OP's actual grandmother but rather more of an elderly friend of the family type relationship.
Even living under the same roof people can be stranger or close ones !! I regard her as my grandma cause in our culture/country we just have one word for a elderly women thats grandma or our grandma.
And yeah i am out of the scenario of applying for the pass thank you for guiding me through it
notmyrealname
Member
The next thing we would expect to happen is that TfL will write to you to ask for your version of events when you were stopped. We don't know how long they will take but come back here when you get the letter and we can advise further.
Thanks for the clarification - UK culture often calls such people "aunties/uncles" as does the local South Asian community (I believe), so it's not unusual.
Yes definitely, this Tuesday I have an appointment with my uni legal union or something I will definitely update it here what I hear from them
asians yeah thank you for wording it perfectly
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Hi all I got the letter today and following would be my response
however, i have few concerns that I have mentioned in the letter;
-I had a GP appointment that day but I couldn’t join it as I was not in my right state of mind. Is it favourable to attach the appointment booking details?
-I have used my oyster card almost daily equipping it with a monthly buss pass or travelcard and recently purchased a railcard as well (before the incident) should I show it?
-I am an int student and I work part time to collect my tuition fees and living expenses and since I have restrictions in work I am constantly getting mail from uni stating I will be excluded from the uni if the fees aren’t paid. Is it okay to attach the mail to show my financial situation?
And I had an appointment with uni legal advisor and they advised me to be honest which I am and then told me
- TO MENTION my grandmother knew that I took her card and rectify it by saying that in panic state I made a mistake
-it would be better to mention I was told that I would only have to pay a penalty fine and the matter wouldn't escalate and that is the reason I cooperated. (which sounds not okay to me)
-I was advised to mention that the grandma knows about the situation and be truthful
-to seek a solicitor
-that if I am convicted of any criminal offecnce then it will affect my visa application after graduation.
REPLY LETTER
To whom it may concern,
I am writing to express my sincere apologies for my actions on the 28th of May 2024 when I was caught using a Freedom Pass that belongs to my grandmother at Liverpool Street Station. I deeply regret my actions and am filled with remorse for the inconvenience and dishonour they have caused.
I am extremely sorry, it was indeed wrongful of me to use a pass that doesn’t belong to me, my carelessness and ignorance of the law led to this offence. Since then, I have felt a great deal of anxiety and been consumed with so much regret.
I used the pass to make a trip from Liverpool Street to Bayswater where I was asked to come aside by an officer in a civil dress and show the card I used to tap in with. I handed over the Freedom Pass and apologised. The inspector noted down my details and my grandmother’s card number. He informed me that my actions would be reported, and I was told that I would face a penalty fine. In my panic, I answered his questions honestly and cooperated with anything they required me to show such as proofs of address and IDs. Since then, I have felt a great deal of anxiety and been consumed with so much regret.
On the day of the incident, my student oyster card was on zero balance, so I didn't have enough balance to pay for my journey, it was a large lapse of judgment and immaturity on my part. I also had a GP appointment on 3:10 pm for a severe skin infection, and in my rush and distress about my medical condition, I made the poor decision to use the Freedom Pass. However, I understand that my actions were inexcusable, and I should have complied with TfL’s regulations.
As an international student, I am allowed to work only 20 hours a week, which made it challenging to cover living expenses, tuition fees, and other essential costs Despite receiving constant emails from my university about the risk of exclusion from my course due to financial pressures, I have always strived to pay the correct fare using my own Student Oyster card “**********” equipping it with monthly bus passes or travel card. My travel history can attest to this.
I also did purchased my '16-25' railcard on 24TH of May 2024.
I am a diligent student pursuing a degree in “*** ***”, I have come to this land with great hardship and my academic journey has been marked by hard work and dedication. If the case is to escalate, I fear that a criminal record could jeopardize my future career and educational aspirations. Considering that I am on a student visa, currently employed part-time, having a criminal record would jeopardize my job and my ability to support myself. This situation has severely affected my mental health, causing significant stress and anxiety.
I am deeply regretful of my actions and the trouble they have caused. I am now fully aware that fare evasion is a criminal offense with serious consequences, and I understand the financial impact it has on TfL. I am committed to never repeating this mistake and to adhering strictly to TfL’s policies in the future.
I respectfully ask for your consideration to settle this matter without court action. The prospect of a criminal record is overwhelming and would have a devastating impact on my studies, future career. I am willing to pay any penalties imposed and take any steps necessary to make amends for my actions.
I sincerely apologize to the concerned staff and TfL for my actions. I have learned a valuable lesson from this incident and am committed to being a responsible and law-abiding resident in the future.
Thank you for considering my appeal.
Attachments
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Reply looks reasonable to me. (No need to mention what grandma knows.)
You say "I was told that I would only have to pay a penalty fine and the matter wouldn't escalate " - if you are sure that that is precisely true, I would indeed mention it (but no more than that). (If the encounter was recorded, they'll be able to check what was said to you.)
You say "I was told that I would only have to pay a penalty fine and the matter wouldn't escalate " - if you are sure that that is precisely true, I would indeed mention it (but no more than that). (If the encounter was recorded, they'll be able to check what was said to you.)
I also think the letter is good, in that this has to be in your own words and if it gets chopped up too much by other people then it's no longer your words. That said, it's a little on the long side and I would consider removing paragraph 3 ("I used the pass....") and perhaps cut a few other sentences out to make it a shorter read.
I should say that while you give a strong set of arguments here, TfL is likely to push this to the courts, it's just the way they work. It's like a machine, given the hundreds of cases they deal with every week.
I should say that while you give a strong set of arguments here, TfL is likely to push this to the courts, it's just the way they work. It's like a machine, given the hundreds of cases they deal with every week.
antharro
Member
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Usually I'd suggest cutting it right down, but actually it's not a bad letter at all. Fingers crossed!
No it was not recorded he had no body cams and everything was verbal and written down that is what i fear
umm hm i would consider shortening it as well.
Sure
Having said these things is it better to go for a solicitor?? And i have been told that my future visa application is at stake should i mention it portray my vulnerable situation.
Please give a view
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notmyrealname
Member
This is a minor point but one of the main pieces of advice on this forum is to be honest with TfL or whoever.
There was a discussion earlier in this thread about whether this lady whose Freedom pass you used is 'a grandma' or your grandma. In post #34 you said the lady isn't a member of your family.
There was a discussion earlier in this thread about whether this lady whose Freedom pass you used is 'a grandma' or your grandma. In post #34 you said the lady isn't a member of your family.
Here is the final letter please advise on whether showing a screenshot of mail from the university, or a GP appointment would be helpful or not.
Additionally is it better to seek a solicitor at this point?
CASE:*******
To whom it may concern,
I am writing to express my sincere apologies for my actions on the 28th of May 2024 at Liverpool Street Station, for using a Freedom Pass belonging to my grandmother. I deeply regret my actions and am filled with remorse for the inconvenience and dishonour they have caused.
I am extremely sorry; it was indeed wrongful of me to use a pass that doesn’t belong to me, my carelessness and ignorance of the law led to this offence. Since then, I have felt a great deal of anxiety and been consumed with so much regret.
At Liverpool Street, an officer in a civil dress asked me to show the card I used to tap in with. I handed over the Freedom Pass and apologised. The inspector noted down my details and my grandmother’s card number. He informed me that my actions would be reported and that I would only face a penalty fine in the post for cooperating. In my panic, I answered his questions honestly and provided any requested proof of address and ID.
On the day of the incident, my student oyster card was on zero balance, so I didn't have enough balance to pay for my journey, it was a large lapse of judgment and immaturity on my part. I also had a GP appointment at 3:10 pm for a severe allergy, and in my rush and distress about my medical condition, I made the poor decision to use the Freedom Pass. However, I understand that my actions were inexcusable, and should have complied with TfL’s regulations.
As an international student, I am allowed to work only 20 hours a week, which makes it challenging to cover living expenses, tuition fees, and other essential costs. Despite receiving constant emails from my university about the risk of exclusion from my course and financial pressures, I have always strived to pay the correct fare using my own Student Oyster card, equipping it with monthly bus passes or travel cards. My purchase history can attest to this. I also purchased my '16-25' railcard on 24TH of May 2024.
I am a diligent student pursuing a bachelor’s degree and recently completed my mentorship/teaching assistant program at my university to pursue Teaching. I have come to this land with great hardship and my academic journey has been marked by hard work and dedication. If the case escalates, I fear a criminal record could jeopardize my future career and educational aspirations, and future visa applications, including extensions and potential work visas. Considering my student visa status and part-time employment, a criminal record would threaten my job and ability to support my studies and myself. This situation has severely affected my mental health, causing significant stress and anxiety. I am currently seeking support from mental health organisations.
I am deeply regretful of my actions and their impact. I am now fully aware that fare evasion is a criminal offence with serious consequences, and I understand the financial impact it has on TfL. I am committed to never repeating this mistake and to adhering strictly to TfL’s policies in the future.
I respectfully request your consideration to settle this matter without court action. The prospect of a criminal record is overwhelming and would devastate my studies and future career. I am willing to make an immediate payment of all reasonable costs and any administrative costs and take any steps necessary to make amends for my actions.
I sincerely apologise to the concerned staff and TfL for my actions. I have learned a valuable lesson from this incident and am committed to being a responsible and law-abiding resident in the future.
The following is an attached document
Thank you for considering my appeal.
Sincerely,
Additionally is it better to seek a solicitor at this point?
CASE:*******
To whom it may concern,
I am writing to express my sincere apologies for my actions on the 28th of May 2024 at Liverpool Street Station, for using a Freedom Pass belonging to my grandmother. I deeply regret my actions and am filled with remorse for the inconvenience and dishonour they have caused.
I am extremely sorry; it was indeed wrongful of me to use a pass that doesn’t belong to me, my carelessness and ignorance of the law led to this offence. Since then, I have felt a great deal of anxiety and been consumed with so much regret.
At Liverpool Street, an officer in a civil dress asked me to show the card I used to tap in with. I handed over the Freedom Pass and apologised. The inspector noted down my details and my grandmother’s card number. He informed me that my actions would be reported and that I would only face a penalty fine in the post for cooperating. In my panic, I answered his questions honestly and provided any requested proof of address and ID.
On the day of the incident, my student oyster card was on zero balance, so I didn't have enough balance to pay for my journey, it was a large lapse of judgment and immaturity on my part. I also had a GP appointment at 3:10 pm for a severe allergy, and in my rush and distress about my medical condition, I made the poor decision to use the Freedom Pass. However, I understand that my actions were inexcusable, and should have complied with TfL’s regulations.
As an international student, I am allowed to work only 20 hours a week, which makes it challenging to cover living expenses, tuition fees, and other essential costs. Despite receiving constant emails from my university about the risk of exclusion from my course and financial pressures, I have always strived to pay the correct fare using my own Student Oyster card, equipping it with monthly bus passes or travel cards. My purchase history can attest to this. I also purchased my '16-25' railcard on 24TH of May 2024.
I am a diligent student pursuing a bachelor’s degree and recently completed my mentorship/teaching assistant program at my university to pursue Teaching. I have come to this land with great hardship and my academic journey has been marked by hard work and dedication. If the case escalates, I fear a criminal record could jeopardize my future career and educational aspirations, and future visa applications, including extensions and potential work visas. Considering my student visa status and part-time employment, a criminal record would threaten my job and ability to support my studies and myself. This situation has severely affected my mental health, causing significant stress and anxiety. I am currently seeking support from mental health organisations.
I am deeply regretful of my actions and their impact. I am now fully aware that fare evasion is a criminal offence with serious consequences, and I understand the financial impact it has on TfL. I am committed to never repeating this mistake and to adhering strictly to TfL’s policies in the future.
I respectfully request your consideration to settle this matter without court action. The prospect of a criminal record is overwhelming and would devastate my studies and future career. I am willing to make an immediate payment of all reasonable costs and any administrative costs and take any steps necessary to make amends for my actions.
I sincerely apologise to the concerned staff and TfL for my actions. I have learned a valuable lesson from this incident and am committed to being a responsible and law-abiding resident in the future.
The following is an attached document
Thank you for considering my appeal.
Sincerely,
Fawkes Cat
Established Member
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- 8 May 2017
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- 5,350
There are holes that could be picked in this letter (to my mind it could be shorter, I'm not sure that TfL will be willing to take account of your personal issues) but I think it's probably worth sending it: as people have said higher up the thread TfL's default position is to prosecute in matters like this and while I know this will sound harsh, I don't think refining this letter will increase the chance of getting TfL to drop the matter.
Given what I've just said, I don't think that attaching anything from your university or GP will help.
As to whether you should get a solicitor, that depends on how much you value having a clean record. From what I've seen here, a solicitor will definitely cost £500 - £800, and even with their involvement there's no guarantee that TfL won't prosecute. On the basis of calculations I've done on another thread, I would expect being convicted to cost a little bit less than this (maybe £470): if using a solicitor gets you off then you may thnk the extra money worth spending but if they don't then you'll have doubled your costs for no benefit.
It's a tough choice - but you know how much money you have to hand, and will have to judge what a clean record means to you. We can't help you with that!
AlbertBeale
Established Member
I don't think it's helpful to refer to "carelessness" and "ignorance". You didn't pick up the wrong ticket by mistake - it wasn't careless, it was deliberate. And I don't see how someone could be ignorant of the fact that finding a dishonest way to avoid paying your fare isn't allowed. Saying things like this would, in my view, make it more likely that TfL would think you weren't taking it seriously and hadn't learned your lesson - and hence might do it again. (I also agree that the letter is much too long to be read properly by someone handling a stack of these cases every day, and they've heard every sob story under the sun before - and those stories aren't legally relevant. So if might do better if it were cut a lot.)
Though having said all that, I agree with others who've pointed out that you're not very likely to avoid prosecution, whatever you do.
It’s far too long IMO, and much of it is completely irrelevant and a sob story which won’t cut any ice.
As an example, you say the situation has caused you stress and anxiety. The investigator may think, “I would expect it to -I’d be more concerned if the situation doesn’t cause you any stress” or “well the best way to avoid stress and anxiety is not to break the law”. So saying it is unlikely to make any difference or gain any sympathy.
Have a think how a busy person will react when they open your letter and have to read through it. The length will make them think “oh no, another long list of excuses I have to wade through”.
As others have said, it’s very unlikely to make any difference to the outcome.
As an example, you say the situation has caused you stress and anxiety. The investigator may think, “I would expect it to -I’d be more concerned if the situation doesn’t cause you any stress” or “well the best way to avoid stress and anxiety is not to break the law”. So saying it is unlikely to make any difference or gain any sympathy.
Have a think how a busy person will react when they open your letter and have to read through it. The length will make them think “oh no, another long list of excuses I have to wade through”.
As others have said, it’s very unlikely to make any difference to the outcome.
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The key points needed in this type of letter are present, so just send it - you've nothing to lose by trying and it's better for a letter like this to be authentic in your own style rather than edited too much by people on here. (The most important sentence is the "penalty fine" one - if it goes to court you could attempt to argue that the case ought to be thrown out because that set the worst possible outcome of the process, although the meaning of those words is open to argument and different from what you told us in your opening post. "I would only get a fine which if not paid I could face prosecution" is quite different from "I would only face a penalty fine in the post for cooperating" which could be a court fine after a prosecution where you plead guilty by post.)
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It's best not to get literal on this, you need to treat this urgent and get that email to TfL ASAP. Given this weekend, if your email is in their inbox first thing Monday morning then that will probably be OK, but it doesn't help to do this at the last minute. Bear in mind they are processing around 200 to 500 of these letters every week.
Hi, I am the same situation like you caught using my aunt freedom pass, need to reply them by this week. What was your outcome?
antharro
Member
- Joined
- 20 Dec 2006
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@jitu_1805 As per the forum's rules, if you need help, please start a new thread. No two situations are the same and the help given to one person may not apply to another. In this case you can see from the posts above yours that the member concerned has not yet had a resolution.
Hi thank you all for all the advice I got from this forum, everything was indeed helpful and meaningful. I got decision on my case and thankfully it was settled out of court with Warning.
At the very last moment I opted for solicitor and went with Mayank Solicitors especially Sameer. They carefully crafted my letter and used various other pieces of evidence that I had no idea about.
Going forward with solicitor was indeed really expensive for me but was worth the result. And I would really request any new offenders (hope there won't be) to opt for professional help rather than acting on their own. The letter I posted in this forum and the one that was submitted was totally different so no matter how good your writing is, help from professional practitioner is never bad.
Tips if u opt for law firm, please have your question ready before hand. Cause although I had my questions ready, I missed to add few and was in lot of stress tbh.
And few things I want to add. Please remember digital footprint are really scary anything you confess or post can be seen by anyone that could be prosecutor, lawyers and so on so please be careful on what you confess.
At the very last moment I opted for solicitor and went with Mayank Solicitors especially Sameer. They carefully crafted my letter and used various other pieces of evidence that I had no idea about.
Going forward with solicitor was indeed really expensive for me but was worth the result. And I would really request any new offenders (hope there won't be) to opt for professional help rather than acting on their own. The letter I posted in this forum and the one that was submitted was totally different so no matter how good your writing is, help from professional practitioner is never bad.
Tips if u opt for law firm, please have your question ready before hand. Cause although I had my questions ready, I missed to add few and was in lot of stress tbh.
And few things I want to add. Please remember digital footprint are really scary anything you confess or post can be seen by anyone that could be prosecutor, lawyers and so on so please be careful on what you confess.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Do you mind us asking how much the fees were? It will help other posters.
Would you be willing to share what the "various other pieces of evidence" were and in what ways was the letter submitted "totally different" from the one you originally posted?
This would assist forum members understanding.
Thank you.
Consultation was £125 mine lasted for less than 10 minutes ig and the letter was £600.
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The evidences or situations around me was
- I admitted on the offence and number of time I used
- I was using my own student oyster equipped with travel card and bus passes every month like really every month making 4-5 complete journey every single day ( meaning I had months of record of active and ig excessive use of my oyster)
- I had a railcard purchased few days prior to the incident (not relevant ig)
- my visa situation allowed me to work only 20 hrs a week = low income.
- my nationality, my country is really beind practicing human rights
-And my medical record, I had few issues not related to mental health though. (but I was getting support from few organizations as it deteriorated. note:this irrelevant )
- I participated in teaching at my university I didn't have a certificate but had the confirmation mail from uni
- I lost my only sibling recently followed by my parents divorce.
- I was really behind paying my tuition fees and always received threat mails from uni regarding exclusion from the course.
-something that my case is not of public interest ( I swear idk what that is and haven't understood a single bit)
The files that was attacked with the letter were:
-My GP appointment of the day of the incident
-Medical Record
-visa record
- railcard purchase
-My employment Contract
- My teaching confirmation mail
- Multiple mail from uni regarding exclusion from the course
- My oyster journey history for past few months.
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Thank you for taking the time and trouble to reply with this detailed account. It is much appreciated.
Whilst this forum exists to provide guidance and advice to those in need of assistance, we are also indebted to those posters who provide details of outcomes as this enables us to refine and update our understanding of the current practices of the Train Operating Companies.
Thank you once again.
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