Is ScotRail rolling stock nationalised?

[BlueLeanie]

The BBC is reporting that the SNP's Westminster leader has claimed that "Rolling Stock had been nationalised in Scotland".

Is this correct? Is all ScotRail rolling stock now owned outright by the Scotrail/Scottish Government?

I heard it on the radio, but suspect that this "X" is the source for BBC's report.

x.com

twitter.com

The SNP have already nationalised Scotland’s railway. Keep up.

Also in the morning's political blog at 09:54

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69071603

Stephen Flynn used a BBC Breakfast appearance earlier to call for Labour to fully nationalise Network

The SNP's Westminster leader said rolling stock had been nationalised in Scotland and peak time fares scrapped to ease the financial burden - and he said it was important Network Rail was in public ownership to improve punctuality.

 

[hexagon789]

The BBC is reporting that the SNP's Westminster leader has claimed that "Rolling Stock had been nationalised in Scotland".

Is this correct? Is all ScotRail rolling stock now owned outright by the Scotrail/Scottish Government?

Nope, still owned by private ROSCOs.

Perhaps he is thinking of Wales? TfW do outright own much of their fleet.

 

[jw]

I'd be very sceptical. Much of the legacy British Rail-era stock will be leased from the conventional ROSCOs.

I believe with the Class 380 fleet a clause permits Transport Scotland to take ownership for a nominal fee after a set number of years. I'm unaware of any special arrangements for more modern stock such as the Class 385s.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Nope, still owned by private ROSCOs.
Perhaps he is thinking of Wales? TfW do outright own much of their fleet.

Not really - TfW only own the MK4 stock I think (not the 67s).
Merseyrail claims its new 777 fleet is locally-owned, but I think they mean that the PTE has made its own financing deal with its banks (ie there is no intermediate Rosco).
777 maintenance is contracted to Stadler, and TfW's 197s to CAF.

 

[43096]

Not really - TfW only own the MK4 stock I think (not the 67s).

Add the 230s and the 153s that are being retained to that list.

 

[ld0595]

I'd be very sceptical. Much of the legacy British Rail-era stock will be leased from the conventional ROSCOs.

I believe with the Class 380 fleet a clause permits Transport Scotland to take ownership for a nominal fee after a set number of years. I'm unaware of any special arrangements for more modern stock such as the Class 385s.

Seems to be something similar for 385s: https://www.railwaygazette.com/trac...ass-385-emus-under-construction/41993.article

The EMUs are being financed by SMBC Leasing’s Caledonian Rail Leasing special-purpose vehicle. The Scottish Government has guaranteed their use for at least 25 years, at which point it could acquire the fleet for a nominal £1.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Add the 230s and the 153s that are being retained to that list.

Well, that's still only a fraction of TfW's rolling stock, are worth very little and will have a very limited life left.
The 230s were bought as a result of the Vivarail corporate failure.

 

[Neptune]

Not really - TfW only own the MK4 stock I think (not the 67s).

Haven’t TfW just bought 67026 and 67028 outright?

 

[D365]

The 230s were bought as a result of the Vivarail corporate failure.

My impression was that TfW owned them even before the Vivarail collapase.

 

[starlight73]

yes, you’re right that TfW own their class 230s outright - see this post (directly linked, no.1436)

Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

I don't know the reason, but I bet it is written into the contract to operate the service. I know that for a number of years an intercity franchise tried to negotiate with the trade unions to introduce SDO. It was eventually abandoned. Perhaps it is the case that they cannot use SDO on the...

www.railforums.co.uk

TfW already own the 230s…

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I make it about 50 passenger vehicles under TfW ownership, and about 350 with Roscos.

 

[43096]

My impression was that TfW owned them even before the Vivarail collapase.

That is correct.

 

[AlexNL]

I believe TfW were looking at outright owning their rolling stock when the franchise was awarded, but in the end a conventional ROSCO type setup turned out to be more financially beneficial - SBMC/Equitix are the parties involved.

 

[Carntyne]

ScotRail's trains are owned by ROSCOs.

Section 54 in place on 380, 385 and HSTs to guarantee their use in Scotland, which isn't the same as the Government owning them.