Missuse of freedom pass

[nabi]

Hello members,
I am really ashamed of my act today as I got caught using a freedom pass
Upon getting caught I was asked to bring out the card I used for taping in. At first, I hesitated and finally pulled out the pass and admitted to using the card. I claimed my grandmother didn't know about this. I genuinely didn't think my action could be a serious offence and it would land me up in such a serious situation.

The officer claimed I would only get a fine which if not paid I could face prosecution. I gave them the details like my home address name DOB etc and they noted my Oyster card number and the Freedom pass card however it was not until the end that I realized that they were not gonna give back the card. I was calm because I thought I only needed to pay the fine. BUT upon researching, I found I can face prosecution and a conviction record as well.

Any advice and guidance will help me.
I am really scared of the cost and consequences of my actions. PLEASE HELP ME!!

 

[antharro]

Welcome to the forum.

I assume you mean the Central Line on the London Underground. If so, then you should be aware that TfL nearly always prosecute for ticketing offences. If they go this route, you will get a criminal record, however you will not be going to prison. However, there have been a couple of cases recently where people have been let off with a warning.

What will happen next is TfL will write to you. This will be sometime in the next couple of months. The letter will tell you what they're charging you with, and what they want you to do next. When you get that letter, post it up here, making sure to mark out any personally identifiable information, case reference numbers, etc. There are a lot of good people on here who have a lot of knowledge of this situation, and they'll be able to advise what happens next.

So for the time being, try not to dwell on it. Keep an eye on your post, and as soon as that letter arrives, post it up here. If you want to see how other people have dealt with this situation, use the search function to search the Disputes forum for "TFL".

 

[nabi]

Welcome to the forum.

I assume you mean the Central Line on the London Underground. If so, then you should be aware that TfL nearly always prosecute for ticketing offences. If they go this route, you will get a criminal record, however you will not be going to prison. However, there have been a couple of cases recently where people have been let off with a warning.

What will happen next is TfL will write to you. This will be sometime in the next couple of months. The letter will tell you what they're charging you with, and what they want you to do next. When you get that letter, post it up here, making sure to mark out any personally identifiable information, case reference numbers, etc. There are a lot of good people on here who have a lot of knowledge of this situation, and they'll be able to advise what happens next.

So for the time being, try not to dwell on it. Keep an eye on your post, and as soon as that letter arrives, post it up here. If you want to see how other people have dealt with this situation, use the search function to search the Disputes forum for "TFL".

Thank you for your response it means a lot to me, however I saw a lot of threads where most member told that tfl are unlikely to resolve outside the court and the percentage of something was more than 95% for 2023. But the officer was wearing normal attire and was saying that I will just be fined and nothing else will that work against them! But even though he didn't had a body cam and there is no evidence of that!

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you for your response it means a lot to me, however I saw a lot of threads where most member told that tfl are unlikely to resolve outside the court and the percentage of something was more than 95% for 2023. But the officer was wearing normal attire and was saying that I will just be fined and nothing else will that work against them! But even though he didn't had a body cam and there is no evidence of that!

They are only saying that to de-escalate the situation I’m afraid. You should prepare to be prosecuted in the magistrates court.

You will need to pay, on conviction:

- A fine based on your weekly income (normally discounted by a third for pleading guilty at the earliest opportunity)
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards the train company’s costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided

You should seek advice on the impact on your conviction from the charity Unlock.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Transport for London take misuse of Freedom Passes very seriously and a prosecution under the TfL Bylaws is the usual outcome.

As for what happens next TfL will send you a Verification Letter, normally within a couple of weeks. The letter will ask you to confirm or deny the incident and ask you to give any mitigating circumstances which you would like them to take into account when deciding how to proceed.

I suggest you mention the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and TfL's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

TfL generally do not offer out of court settlements although in some very limited circumstances they have been known to issue a final warning instead of prosecution. Prosecutions are normally done through what is called a Single Justice Procedure Notice. This means that if you plead guilty it is not necessary to attend court in person (unless you choose to do), you simply return the form to the court with any mitigation you want them to tae into account and they will write to you with the details of the fine you have to pay.

If you are prosecuted and plead guilty (or are found guilty by the court) then you will have to pay:

- A fine based on your income
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided

If you are found guilty then this is a criminal conviction. If you are prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws (which is what normally happens) then the conviction isn't normally recorded on the Police National Computer and won't normally appear on Basic DBS checks although we always advise people to be honest when asked if they have a conviction.

A criminal conviction for a railway ticketing matter won't normally affect future career prospects but do note that legally we are unable to comment or assist when it comes to immigration issues.

Here's a link to TfL's Revenue Enforcement & Prosecutions Policy which you might find worth reading:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I need to return the grandma her card..

Clearly, wrong actions have consequences, but how does the OP's grandmother get their confiscated pass back?

 

[Snow1964]

Clearly, wrong actions have consequences, but how does the OP's grandmother get their confiscated pass back?

She has to report it as taken (fess up that she didn't carefully look after it) ask for the existing pass to be cancelled (by giving its reference) and get a replacement issued.

Technically these passes are issued by your local Council, and without knowing which Council issued it, can't comment on their replacement ticket policies or who to contact.

 

[nabi]

She has to report it as taken (fess up that she didn't carefully look after it) ask for the existing pass to be cancelled (by giving its reference) and get a replacement issued.

Technically these passes are issued by your local Council, and without knowing which Council issued it, can't comment on their replacement ticket policies or who to contact.

London borough Do u mean like lost right cause for stolen it could ask for crime reference number

 

[AlterEgo]

London borough and under Woolwich Council I guess. Do u mean like lost right cause for stolen it could ask for crime reference number

That’s for your grandmother to decide, isn’t it? It’s not up to the person who took the pass without its owner’s consent to decide whether it should be reported as lost or stolen.

 

[nabi]

Welcome to the forum!

Transport for London take misuse of Freedom Passes very seriously and a prosecution under the TfL Bylaws is the usual outcome.

As for what happens next TfL will send you a Verification Letter, normally within a couple of weeks. The letter will ask you to confirm or deny the incident and ask you to give any mitigating circumstances which you would like them to take into account when deciding how to proceed.

I suggest you mention the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and TfL's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

TfL generally do not offer out of court settlements although in some very limited circumstances they have been known to issue a final warning instead of prosecution. Prosecutions are normally done through what is called a Single Justice Procedure Notice. This means that if you plead guilty it is not necessary to attend court in person (unless you choose to do), you simply return the form to the court with any mitigation you want them to tae into account and they will write to you with the details of the fine you have to pay.

If you are prosecuted and plead guilty (or are found guilty by the court) then you will have to pay:

- A fine based on your income
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided

If you are found guilty then this is a criminal conviction. If you are prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws (which is what normally happens) then the conviction isn't normally recorded on the Police National Computer and won't normally appear on Basic DBS checks although we always advise people to be honest when asked if they have a conviction.

A criminal conviction for a railway ticketing matter won't normally affect future career prospects but do note that legally we are unable to comment or assist when it comes to immigration issues.

Here's a link to TfL's Revenue Enforcement & Prosecutions Policy which you might find worth reading:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

Thank you @Hadders for ur response I really appreciate your help. Few things Do I have to involve a solicitor? If I do how much would that cost me? I told them that I am a student when I was questioned and didn't mentioned my job at all it was in paniac state and also I earn roughly around £12-13k p/a (roughly £250 a week). Please could u estimate how much would the solicitor charge cause or the rough figure of fine would be cause I Really do not have the amount . And will they check my bank statement just in case?? Cause I have been buying buss pass travelcards every single month and currently I have one as well I am sincere and can show that normally use my own oyster card for transport

 

[skyhigh]

London borough and under Woolwich Council I guess. Do u mean like lost right cause for stolen it could ask for crime reference number

The pass wasn't 'lost' and it wasn't 'stolen'. Don't add to your troubles by fraudulently submitting an application for a replacement.

The owner of the pass is going to have to sort out the replacement, not you.

 

[nabi]

That’s for your grandmother to decide, isn’t it? It’s not up to the person who took the pass without its owner’s consent to decide whether it should be reported as lost or stolen.

true

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 May 2024 ==

The pass wasn't 'lost' and it wasn't 'stolen'. Don't add to your troubles by fraudulently submitting an application for a replacement.

The owner of the pass is going to have to sort out the replacement, not you.

Omy gosh but i already did that in hurrying cause thats what the officer advised me i can apply on behalf of her as long as i have the required documents and the pass owner doesn’t need to like know about the situation

 

[Pushpit]

Omy gosh but i already did that in hurrying cause thats what the officer advised me i can apply on behalf of her as long as i have the required documents and the pass owner doesn’t need to like know about the situation

It's fairly obvious that the pass owner has to recover the with-held Freedom Pass. They will have to fill in the forms, and state whether it was stolen by you or used by you with their knowledge. It's also a fairly elemental point that dishonesty got you into trouble, it can get you into further trouble, honesty is the best way to get out of trouble. Having lied to TfL and to the taxpayer, you now want to lie to your grandmother of all people. When does this stop?

 

[nabi]

It's fairly obvious that the pass owner has to recover the with-held Freedom Pass. They will have to fill in the forms, and state whether it was stolen by you or used by you with their knowledge. It's also a fairly elemental point that dishonesty got you into trouble, it can get you into further trouble, honesty is the best way to get out of trouble. Having lied to TfL and to the taxpayer, you now want to lie to your grandmother of all people. When does this stop?

I now know and i am extremely sorry for my actions and behaviour towards all the people i affected mostly to the pass holder . Is there anyway i can help her retrieve a pass again?

 

[notmyrealname]

You had replies above about how to do this. It has to be the passholder.

 

[AlterEgo]

I now know and i am extremely sorry for my actions and behaviour towards all the people i affected mostly to the pass holder . Is there anyway i can help her retrieve a pass again?

The pass holder has to reapply for their pass. There’s nothing stopping you helping, but the pass holder has to decide on the reason for the replacement. You should be aware that the issuing council will likely know the pass has been confiscated after it was found to be misused.

 

[nabi]

You had replies above about how to do this. It has to be the passholder.

Got it

The pass holder has to reapply for their pass. There’s nothing stopping you helping, but the pass holder has to decide on the reason for the replacement. You should be aware that the issuing council will likely know the pass has been confiscated after it was found to be misused.

would it be better if she says lost? Will that bring me to difficulties? Or is there any advice or smart way to be on safer side?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 May 2024 ==

Thank you @Hadders for ur response I really appreciate your help. Few things Do I have to involve a solicitor? If I do how much would that cost me? I told them that I am a student when I was questioned and didn't mentioned my job at all it was in paniac state and also I earn roughly around £12-13k p/a (roughly £250 a week). Please could u estimate how much would the solicitor charge cause or the rough figure of fine would be cause I Really do not have the amount . And will they check my bank statement just in case?? Cause I have been buying buss pass travelcards every single month and currently I have one as well I am sincere and can show that normally use my own oyster card for transport

Thank you @Hadders for ur response I really appreciate your help. Few things Do I have to involve a solicitor? If I do how much would that cost me? I told them that I am a student when I was questioned and didn't mentioned my job at all it was in paniac state and also I earn roughly around £12-13k p/a (roughly £250 a week). Please could u estimate how much would the solicitor charge cause or the rough figure of fine would be cause I Really do not have the amount . And will they check my bank statement just in case?? Cause I have been buying buss pass travelcards every single month and currently I have one as well I am sincere and can show that normally use my own oyster card for transport

To add more as far i remember during questioning i was asked do u admit what u did was offence or something like that and i said yes i was really scared and didnt lie abt anything except when he asked my work i told i am student. Seems like i already admitted my wrong doings will it work against me? And should i seek a solicitor?

 

[FenMan]

Got it

would it be better if she says lost? Will that bring me to difficulties?

It would not be better, it would be dishonest. Given that it's dishonesty that has got you into your current predicament it's time you kicked the habit. Encouraging your grandma to also lie would very likely make things worse than they already are.

 

[skyhigh]

would it be better if she says lost? Will that bring me to difficulties? Or is there any advice or smart way to be on safer side?

It is not your place to reapply for the pass. You should inform your Grandmother what has happened - she should then reapply for it herself giving an honest reason as to why she needs a replacement. The pass was not lost, you both know exactly what happened to it. The council/TfL will be aware what has happened so lying to them is a terrible idea. They may ask for an explanation as to how she believes you came to use it, to satisfy themselves that she didn't give you the pass to use and won't give you the replacement too.

The 'smart way' to be on the safe side is to tell the truth and then you can't be accused of using deception to try and arrange a replacement pass (on top of the trouble you already find yourself in).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@nabi. Have you actually told your grandmother that you've misappropriated the pass and had it confiscated?

 

[nabi]

It would not be better, it would be dishonest. Given that it's dishonesty that has got you into your current predicament it's time you kicked the habit. Encouraging your grandma to also lie would very likely make things worse than they already are.

yes, I am ashamed of myself

@nabi. Have you actually told your grandmother that you've misappropriated the pass and had it confiscated?

I will be saying it now.

It is not your place to reapply for the pass. You should inform your Grandmother what has happened - she should then reapply for it herself giving an honest reason as to why she needs a replacement. The pass was not lost, you both know exactly what happened to it. The council/TfL will be aware what has happened so lying to them is a terrible idea. They may ask for an explanation as to how she believes you came to use it, to satisfy themselves that she didn't give you the pass to use and won't give you the replacement too.

The 'smart way' to be on the safe side is to tell the truth and then you can't be accused of using deception to try and arrange a replacement pass (on top of the trouble you already find yourself in).

I am really grateful for your valuable advice. The only problem is my grandma doesn't understand English and someone else has to do any sort of work on behalf of her so we will call the responsible party tomorrow and be truthful to them about the situation but the only confusion i am having is i told the officer that the pass holder doesn't know that I am using her pass and I picked it up from the table however the truth is she knows about it, will it cause an issue later on? i am really sorry i am sorry for being in dilemma.

 

[AlterEgo]

The only problem is my grandma doesn't understand English and someone else has to do any sort of work on behalf of her so we will call the responsible party tomorrow and be truthful to them about the situation but the only confusion i am having is i told the officer that the pass holder doesn't know that I am using her pass and I picked it up from the table however the truth is she knows about it, will it cause an issue later on? i am really sorry i am sorry for being in dilemma.

So to be clear, your grandmother has been allowing you to take the pass and fraudulently claim free travel? So she knows about all this already?

 

[notmyrealname]

Who organised grandma's Freedom pass in the first place?

 

[pedr]

Your grandmother should find a translator who is someone other than you to deal with this, since you have a conflict of interests. What is best for you may not be best for her and vice versa.

Since this might mean telling a translator matters which are potentially incriminating, it might be wisest for your grandmother to hire a solicitor for herself to protect her interests. The current approach where you appear to be communicating on your behalf and hers is risky.

 

[nabi]

So to be clear, your grandmother has been allowing you to take the pass and fraudulently claim free travel? So she knows about all this already?

yeah, but it was used for five days only that would be the only unusual trip.

Who organised grandma's Freedom pass in the first place?

she used it for herself.

Your grandmother should find a translator who is someone other than you to deal with this, since you have a conflict of interests. What is best for you may not be best for her and vice versa.

Since this might mean telling a translator matters which are potentially incriminating, it might be wisest for your grandmother to hire a solicitor for herself to protect her interests. The current approach where you appear to be communicating on your behalf and hers is risky.

yeah we have someone to be a voice for her. So you mean we need to tell this matter to the translator? i am so sorry i didnt get it properly.

 

[ikcdab]

would it be better if she says lost? Will that bring me to difficulties? Or is there any advice or smart way to be on safer side?

I am surprised you even need to ask. You need to stop making things up and tell the truth. That is the best way to get this resolved. If you just keep adding more lies then it will become more difficult for you.

 

[notmyrealname]

I did ask who applied for the original Freedom pass but I'm not sure if what I meant was clear. If your grandma doesn't speak English, how did she know to apply for a Freedom pass and who helped her please? If it wasn't you, maybe this person could help now.

 

[nabi]

I did ask who applied for the original Freedom pass but I'm not sure if what I meant was clear. If your grandma doesn't speak English, how did she know to apply for a Freedom pass and who helped her please? If it wasn't you, maybe this person could help now.

A family member helped her while getting the pass.

I am surprised you even need to ask. You need to stop making things up and tell the truth. That is the best way to get this resolved. If you just keep adding more lies then it will become more difficult for you.

Yes

 

[notmyrealname]

I don't mean to be pedantic but you said you're a lone woman in the UK (apart from grandma). Does that mean that the family member was you?

People keep saying you need to be honest and also stay out of the renewal of the Freedom pass or you could have more problems.

 

[pedr]

I’ve looked back and the OP refers to “an elder grandma” rather than “[her] grandma”. Is that a translation of a term for a respected older woman, rather than a reference to the OP’s parent’s mother?