Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[HamworthyGoods]

1D83 0902 Euston-Holyhead on June 12 seems to be pathed as 80x (2x805 until Crewe), the AWC website seat map has 805 graphics and no Advance are available tickets as well.

View attachment 158407

The 09.02 Euston to Holyhead remains as a pair of 221s at the start of the June timetable, one of the few remaining 221 operated North Wales services after the change.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2024 ==

Randomly looking at the 06:00 Preston to Euston on Tuesday 9th July it's showing coach formation as
A B C D J K L M N P.. J and K are marked First Class, with the rest marked as Standard Class.

This is the early morning Blackpool to Euston service which remains a 221 and forms the 09.02 Holyhead once it gets to Euston,

 

[norbitonflyer]

The 09.02 Euston to Holyhead remains as a pair of 221s at the start of the June timetable, one of the few remaining 221 operated North Wales services after the change.

So, other than the 0902 (and 1448 return), will all Holyhead services be 805s from June 2nd? And what about the short Chester workings?

The Chester/North Wales services all seem to be first stop Stafford. Will there be any 805-worked services calling at any stations further south? (Other than Euston of course)

 

[HamworthyGoods]

So, other than the 0902 (and 1448 return), will all Holyhead services be 805s from June 2nd? And what about the short Chester workings?

The Chester/North Wales services all seem to be first stop Stafford. Will there be any 805-worked services calling at any stations further south? (Other than Euston of course)

I understand on Monday to Fridays the following services will be 221 worked from the new June timetable (largely 3 x 10 car diagrams):

1R02 05.50 Birmingham NS - Euston
9G08 08.16 Euston - Birmingham NS
1B34 10.21 Birmingham NS - Euston
1D87 13.02 Euston - Chester
1A56 15.32 Chester - Euston
1J32 18.02 Euston - Wrexham
1K95 20:37 Chester - Crewe

1R14 05.35 Blackpool N - Euston
1D83 09.02 Euston - Holyhead
1A62 14.48 Holyhead - Euston
1D93 19.02 Euston - Holyhead

1R25 05.48 Holyhead - Euston
(Including 1D25 07.03 Wrexham to Chester attaching at Chester)
1D84 10.02 Euston - Chester
1A38 12.32 Chester - Euston
9G28 15.10 Euston - Birmingham NS
1B53 16.47 Birmingham NS - Euston
9K39 18.40 Euston - Crewe

 

[43055]

I understand on Monday to Fridays the following services will be 221 worked from the new June timetable (largely 3 x 10 car diagrams):

1R02 05.50 Birmingham NS - Euston
9G08 08.16 Euston - Birmingham NS
1B34 10.21 Birmingham NS - Euston
1D87 13.02 Euston - Chester
1A56 15.32 Chester - Euston
1J32 18.02 Euston - Wrexham
1K95 20:37 Chester - Crewe

1R14 05.35 Blackpool N - Euston
1D83 09.02 Euston - Holyhead
1A62 14.48 Holyhead - Euston
1D93 19.02 Euston - Holyhead

1R25 05.48 Holyhead - Euston
(Including 1D25 07.03 Wrexham to Chester attacking at Chester)
1D84 10.02 Euston - Chester
1A38 12.32 Chester - Euston
9G28 15.10 Euston - Birmingham NS
1B53 16.47 Birmingham NS - Euston
9K39 18.40 Euston - Crewe

Thanks for this. Any ideas about the weekends as well?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Thanks for this. Any ideas about the weekends as well?

Saturdays (only 2 x 10 car sets out):

1A10 06.28 Chester - Euston
1D83 09.02 Euston - Holyhead
1A64 13.53 Holyhead - Euston
1D92 18.02 Euston - Holyhead
(Detaches rear set at Chester to form)
1K80 20.32 Chester - Crewe

1A16 05.48 Holyhead - Euston
(Including 1D25 07.03 Wrexham to Chester attaching at Chester)
1D84 10.02 Euston - Holyhead
(Detaches rear set at Chester to form)
1A46 12.32 Chester - Euston
1D90 16.02 Euston - Holyhead

Front set of 1D84 continues:
1A70 14.48 Holyhead - Euston
1J32 19.02 Euston - Wrexham


Sundays are very dependent on engineering works.

 

[voyagerdude220]

This is the early morning Blackpool to Euston service which remains a 221 and forms the 09.02 Holyhead once it gets to Euston,

You're right about what it forms, but I don't understand why the allocated coach lettering has changed.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I understand on Monday to Fridays the following services will be 221 worked from the new June timetable (largely 3 x 10 car diagrams):

..........

So what diagrams will be 805 worked? Just the Chester/North Wales services, or will there be others?

 

[Boodiggy]

Looks like the 805s will only be running at PS speeds when introduced!!

Also GWR Reading - Euston runs planned next week.
3Q80 - 3Q83 are the headcodes for the Euston runs.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

So what diagrams will be 805 worked? Just the Chester/North Wales services, or will there be others?

Chester / North Wales and some EBWs (West Midlands routes).

 

[43055]

Saturdays (only 2 x 10 car sets out):

1A10 06.28 Chester - Euston
1D83 09.02 Euston - Holyhead
1A64 13.53 Holyhead - Euston
1D92 18.02 Euston - Holyhead
(Detaches rear set at Chester to form)
1K80 20.32 Chester - Crewe

1A16 05.48 Holyhead - Euston
(Including 1D25 07.03 Wrexham to Chester attaching at Chester)
1D84 10.02 Euston - Holyhead
(Detaches rear set at Chester to form)
1A46 12.32 Chester - Euston
1D90 16.02 Euston - Holyhead

Front set of 1D84 continues:
1A70 14.48 Holyhead - Euston
1J32 19.02 Euston - Wrexham


Sundays are very dependent on engineering works.

Thank you

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I understand on Monday to Fridays the following services will be 221 worked from the new June timetable (largely 3 x 10 car diagrams):

So can we assume that the other Chester/North Wales diagrams will, or might, be 805-worked from June 3 (M-F)?
That would make 1A14 (0648 Holyhead-Euston) the first up 805 service.
The following 1A26 (0853 Holyhead-Euston) might also be an 805.
That diagram starts from Birmingham New St at 0530* (1D80), making it the first 805 service west of Crewe.
I'm just guessing really from RTT info, and 805s might appear on services the day before (eg the Sunday evening 1D92/93 1801/1901 Euston-Holyhead).
But I might make an attempt to get 1A14 on June 3. I'm not expecting much difference to a TPE 802.

* ECS is 0504 from Oxley (5D80).
The ECS for this service used to come from Central Rivers.

 

[Railperf]

Looks like the 805s will only be running at PS speeds when introduced!!

Also GWR Reading - Euston runs planned next week.
3Q80 - 3Q83 are the headcodes for the Euston runs.

I thought MU speeds were now authorised?

 

[Boodiggy]

I thought MU speeds were now authorised?

Signs still bagged up!

 

[Railperf]

Signs still bagged up!

Any idea of the reason for the delay?

 

[Boodiggy]

Any idea of the reason for the delay?

Not officially but I assume it is linked to the drivers not being fully briefed or similar.
The whole project seems very messy…

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Signs still bagged up!

It was reported in Modern Railways recently that the re-signing will be in two stages, the first being Euston-Rugby and the second Rugby-Weaver Jn.

 

[Toby268]

if that is the case, these trains are going to consistently run late until the new speeds are introduced, which will be fun on the already congested section below rugby that can’t cope with a 2/3 min delay on a service as it is now.

 

[Boodiggy]

It was reported in Modern Railways recently that the re-signing will be in two stages, the first being Euston-Rugby and the second Rugby-Weaver Jn.

That was always the plan but both should have been done by now.
It keeps dropping back…

There is also a current restriction of 100mph for 805 / 807 between Lichfield - Rugeley and Bamfurlong - Wigan on all lines! This should be lifted soon.
It is linked to under-bridges although I do not know exact details.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 May 2024 ==

if that is the case, these trains are going to consistently run late until the new speeds are introduced, which will be fun on the already congested section below rugby that can’t cope with a 2/3 min delay on a service as it is now.

Yep… a very disjointed introduction. I do not work for AWC so I do not know the full details but both fleet and line speed project have been poor.

 

[Class777]

I've noticed a few Liverpool diagrams being 80x recently, are the 807s doing these routes or will it still be 390s for now?

 

[Toby268]

I've noticed a few Liverpool diagrams being 80x recently, are the 807s doing these routes or will it still be 390s for now?

They’ve been down as 80x’s for the last 2 timetable changes. They’ll still be operated by 390s for the foreseeable.

 

[Railperf]

So can we assume that the other Chester/North Wales diagrams will, or might, be 805-worked from June 3 (M-F)?
That would make 1A14 (0648 Holyhead-Euston) the first up 805 service.
The following 1A26 (0853 Holyhead-Euston) might also be an 805.
That diagram starts from Birmingham New St at 0530* (1D80), making it the first 805 service west of Crewe.
I'm just guessing really from RTT info, and 805s might appear on services the day before (eg the Sunday evening 1D92/93 1801/1901 Euston-Holyhead).
But I might make an attempt to get 1A14 on June 3. I'm not expecting much difference to a TPE 802.

* ECS is 0504 from Oxley (5D80).
The ECS for this service used to come from Central Rivers.

According to my reckoning, the following are 805 worked Monday to Friday (if stick to diagram)

1202 Euston to Chester, 1502 Euston to Holyhead, 1702 Euston to Hoyhead and 2002 Euston to Holyhead.
return workings are
648 Holyhead to euston, 920. Chester to Euston, 853 Holyhead to euston, 1248 Holyhead to euston and 1732 Chester to Euston.
Feel free to edit

 

[The Planner]

if that is the case, these trains are going to consistently run late until the new speeds are introduced, which will be fun on the already congested section below rugby that can’t cope with a 2/3 min delay on a service as it is now.

Timetable will apparently get some minor tweaking.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

And what about the 5:30 birmingham to holyhead?

805 worked.
Any Avanti train along the North Wales coast that isn’t listed in post 2105 as being a 221 will be 805 worked.

 

[Railperf]

Timetable will apparently get some minor tweaking.

There's already 4.5 mins of engineering and pathing allowances between Euston and Crewe- so as long as there isn't any major TSR, and they can be driven flat out (like they stole em) - then the delay should be minimal.

 

[Watershed]

so as long as there isn't any major TSR, and they can be driven flat out (like they stole em)

And meanwhile, back in the real world...

 

[MK Tom]

Will any of the 805 services starting in June stop at Milton Keynes?

Also, does anyone have any info on when we can expect the first 807s out on fault-free runs?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Will any of the 805 services starting in June stop at Milton Keynes?

Also, does anyone have any info on when we can expect the first 807s out on fault-free runs?

I don't think so - Stafford (or Coventry for the Birmingham services) seems to be the first stop out of (last stop before) Euston

 

[Boodiggy]

I don't think so - Stafford (or Coventry for the Birmingham services) seems to be the first stop out of (last stop before) Euston

New Street services formed of 805s should stop at Watford, MK and Rugby before Coventry.
Not sure what diagrams are officially allocated and confirmed yet.

 

[The Planner]

There's already 4.5 mins of engineering and pathing allowances between Euston and Crewe- so as long as there isn't any major TSR, and they can be driven flat out (like they stole em) - then the delay should be minimal.

There will be retimings.

 

[norbitonflyer]

According to my reckoning, the following are 805 worked Monday to Friday (if stick to diagram)

1202 Euston to Chester, 1502 Euston to Holyhead, 1702 Euston to Hoyhead and 2002 Euston to Holyhead.
return workings are
648 Holyhead to euston, 920. Chester to Euston, 853 Holyhead to euston, 1248 Holyhead to euston and 1732 Chester to Euston.
Feel free to edit

Looking at RTT, these appear to be diagrammed as follows? But there are some mysteries.

[mainly deleted in the lighht of further and better particulkars below) better f

1A26 0853 Holyhead to Euston arr 1235
(this arrives on platform 15, from which the next deprature is 9G21, 1240 to Birmingham) In the present timetable, it seems the next diagrammed working for this arrival is 9J38 1816 Euston to Shrewsbury)

1D89 departs platform 2, but the previous arrival on that platform is 1A39 at 1441 from Manchester. In the present timetable, 1D89 is formed from the incoming stock of 1a38 (1232 Chester to Euston arr 1437, which Post 2105 says will still be a 221)
1D89 (B) 1502 Euston to Chester arr 1705

No doubt all will become clear