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Gatwick Airport monorail timetable data.

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stadler

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Does anyone know where the timetable data for the Gatwick Airport monorail is coming from?


It says it is from Traveline but where are Traveline getting their data from in the first place?

The timetable is completely incorrect. It shows a train every five minutes during the day and every ten minutes overnight. In reality it runs every three minutes during the day and every six minutes overnight. It also shows a journey time of five minutes. In reality the journey time is only two minutes. The monorail has had the same timetable since it opened so this is not even an old timetable. Everything on this timetable is wrong.
 
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markymark2000

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Does anyone know where the timetable data for the Gatwick Airport monorail is coming from?


It says it is from Traveline but where are Traveline getting their data from in the first place?

The timetable is completely incorrect. It shows a train every five minutes during the day and every ten minutes overnight. In reality it runs every three minutes during the day and every six minutes overnight. It also shows a journey time of five minutes. In reality the journey time is only two minutes. The monorail has had the same timetable since it opened so this is not even an old timetable. Everything on this timetable is wrong.
Traveline data for England comes from councils direct and so it would be my guess the local council has set it up as that timetable.
 

stuu

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How did anyone get the idea it's a monorail?
Referring to non-standard systems like that as monorails is fairly common among the non-technically aware.

Unless they are from North Haverbrook
 

Ken X

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It runs on two truck axles per car, each driven by an electric motor. The track is concrete and a single central rail provides guidance via lateral rollers. Guess that's where the monorail idea came from.
 

Jan Mayen

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Referring to non-standard systems like that as monorails is fairly common among the non-technically aware.

Unless they are from North Haverbrook
I had to look that up. Marge VS The Monorail, excellent episode!
 

Backroom_boy

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It runs on two truck axles per car, each driven by an electric motor. The track is concrete and a single central rail provides guidance via lateral rollers. Guess that's where the monorail idea came from.
Sounds more of a Shelbyville idea...
 

Mojo

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Could it be outdated information? The timetable webpage has a link to BAA which sold Gatwick some 14 and a half years ago and BAA itself was rebranded back in 2012.
 

Roger1973

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Traveline data for England comes from councils direct and so it would be my guess the local council has set it up as that timetable.

Not necessarily.

The regional Traveline structure that was set up in the early 00's is no more.

Government theory is that bus operators put all their timetable data in to BODS (Bus Open Data Service) and that local transport authorities don't need to get involved other than maintaining the NAPTAN (database of bus stops) data, so some councils don't do anything more than that (and there are some councils where it's fairly hard to get them to do anything with their NAPTAN data but that's another story.) The quality of some bus operators' BODS data, and how out of date some of it is, shows this maybe wasn't such a good idea...

Some areas still have a regional Traveline and councils who take an interest in this - Traveline South West is still a thing, and some authorities outside the South West have joined them following Traveline South East being disbanded. I don't know the Sussex patch well enough to know what the relevant council's approach to it all is.

Traveline also gets data from the rail industry which does not go through councils, there's a national coach services data set (national as in country wide, not national as in National Express that is, although there are a few operators whose coach services aren't in it) that's handled at national level not via local councils, and I'm not quite sure where data for light rail and odd things like the Gatwick Airport thing (whatever it is) is supposed to come from - I have been involved at various stages of this, but never anywhere with light rail or anything like this.

Going back to the specific, a possible difficulty with the thing at Gatwick is that it's not a registered local bus service, so it doesn't have to run to a set timetable, and there's no requirement for the operator to give notice / information to the local transport authority if the timetable changes. I've not travelled through Gatwick for 20+ years, so don't know how it operates in practice. If it's more of an 'every few minutes, depending on demand' arrangement, then that's very difficult to put in to a timetable form that a journey planner can cope with, so it may be that someone has made a conscious decision to inflate the headway / running time a bit to allow for 'worst case' so that intending passengers don't try to make too tight a connection on to a train and then complain when they miss it. (Last time I looked for info on the similar thing at Luton, National Rail Enquiries showed it running every 1 minute, which is possibly going too far the other way.)

Alternatively, it's possible that the Gatwick thing has fallen in to a hole where everyone thinks it's someone else's responsibility.

I presume this is about the national Traveline site (traveline.info) rather than any of the regional sites? If so, there is a web form for contact / feedback here, so may be worth getting in touch.
 

Towers

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Does sort of beg the question why on earth did someone feel the need to feature it in the first place?!
 

Roger1973

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Does sort of beg the question why on earth did someone feel the need to feature it in the first place?!

I may be misunderstanding you, but then surely the point is so people can plan a journey to / from the airport terminal by public transport?

A possible alternative - if it is an 'varies according to demand' service - it might be better to have something like 'monorail* shuttle from Gatwick Airport Station to Terminal, allow X minutes' (to reflect headway and journey time) rather than show it as if it's a timetable.

But I'm not sure if the journey planner software behind Traveline can work like that, or whether it can only cope with something in timetable form.

* - or whatever it is.
 

yorkie

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Perhaps @stevieinselby may be able to shed some light on this, but it may be more of a question for Traveline themselves. Has anyone asked them?
 

Towers

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I may be misunderstanding you, but then surely the point is so people can plan a journey to / from the airport terminal by public transport?

A possible alternative - if it is an 'varies according to demand' service - it might be better to have something like 'monorail* shuttle from Gatwick Airport Station to Terminal, allow X minutes' (to reflect headway and journey time) rather than show it as if it's a timetable.

But I'm not sure if the journey planner software behind Traveline can work like that, or whether it can only cope with something in timetable form.

* - or whatever it is.
It runs every few minutes, quite literally. Nobody requires that level of detail to plan a journey, you would simply arrive at the airport and take the next inter-terminal shuttle as required!
 

Roger1973

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It runs every few minutes, quite literally. Nobody requires that level of detail to plan a journey, you would simply arrive at the airport and take the next inter-terminal shuttle as required!

But if it wasn't in the data at all, then how would people know to do that? Traveline would give an answer that involved a walk between the railway station and airport terminal, which wouldn't be accurate, and could put people off from travelling by train. (I don't know the way round the airport so don't know how complicated the walk route it would suggest would be. Google Maps - which isn't always great at walking routes - says it's a mile, but there may be a short cut that Google doesn't know about.)

People who are travelling to airports (apart from people who work there) will tend not to be making those journeys regularly, so would have thought a reasonable level of detail is needed.
 

yorkie

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Sorry, what? Bustimes is nothing to do with me, other than that I'm a prolific user of the site...
No worries; I just thought you may have an insight regarding the data source.

It's not a Bustimes thing as such; it's known that Bustimes gets the data from Traveline. I guess it's just a question for Traveline.
 

miklcct

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I may be misunderstanding you, but then surely the point is so people can plan a journey to / from the airport terminal by public transport?

A possible alternative - if it is an 'varies according to demand' service - it might be better to have something like 'monorail* shuttle from Gatwick Airport Station to Terminal, allow X minutes' (to reflect headway and journey time) rather than show it as if it's a timetable.

But I'm not sure if the journey planner software behind Traveline can work like that, or whether it can only cope with something in timetable form.

* - or whatever it is.
GTFS supports both headway-based and timetable-based trips.
 

miklcct

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It runs every few minutes, quite literally. Nobody requires that level of detail to plan a journey, you would simply arrive at the airport and take the next inter-terminal shuttle as required!
But the system has to know that the shuttle exists and how frequent it runs. If the system doesn't know that there is the inter-terminal shuttle, how do I know that I should take the inter-terminal shuttle?

When I enter details into a journey planner, what does "the airport" mean? Different terminals of an airport can be miles apart. Of course I need to enter a specific terminal into it.
 
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