Journey Planner apparently wrong accused of fare dodging. Thoughts / advice welcome

[mike_transport]

So I hopped on a train at Gatwick to come home. I went on the fast train to East Croydon & wanted to get off there instead of South Croydon apparently I can’t do this with a ticket from South Croydon return to Gatwick so why does the journey planner say I can? at East Croydon staff accused me of fare dodging being very rude & wouldn’t give me any options on what to do so I tried to leave by forcing opening the barriers but they tried to call the police so I ran to one of the other ticket barriers & let myself out again successfully. What could be consequences or what would have you done.

 

[ikcdab]

Did the staff scan your ticket or take your details? If so they can (and will) identify you and with this sort of behaviour, I guess they will prosecute.
If your ticket was not scanned or they don't have your details, then they cannot follow you up. But they will remember your face and you may be likely to be apprehended if they recognise you. I guess they will be retaining the CCTV.

 

[Watershed]

So I hopped on a train at Gatwick to come home. I went on the fast train to East Croydon & wanted to get off there instead of South Croydon apparently I can’t do this with a ticket from South Croydon return to Gatwick so why does the journey planner say I can? at East Croydon staff accused me of fare dodging being very rude & wouldn’t give me any options on what to do so I tried to leave by forcing opening the barriers but they tried to call the police so I ran to one of the other ticket barriers & let myself out again successfully. What could be consequences or what would have you done.

The staff at East Croydon were wrong; it's permitted to travel via East Croydon on a South Croydon to Gatwick ticket. You can also break your journey (i.e. get on or off) at East Croydon if you like.

That being said, you could be accused of having committed an offence under Railway Byelaw 9(2) by letting yourself through the barriers. It's fairly unlikely you'd be prosecuted for this, and as far as I can tell, you can't buy e-tickets between South Croydon and Gatwick so you couldn't be identified through that. But if the staff cared sufficiently or the British Transport Police were involved, I suppose it's possible they might look at the CCTV footage to try and identify you in case you pass through East Croydon again in the future.

If something like this happens to you again in the future, I'd suggest cooperating with the staff and providing your name and address if they ask for it. Let the police attend if need be. That way, by having complied with their instructions and having used a ticket in an entirely valid manner, you have done nothing wrong and can't be accused of anything.

Normally, I'd suggest raising a complaint with the train company in an instance like this, but given the circumstances, that is perhaps not a good idea.

 

[AlterEgo]

It’s unlikely they will prosecute you. They would have needed to stop you and identify you to do this. They can’t just issue a prosecution against the purchaser of the ticket.

The law works best with compliant passengers. If you run away, there is, in most cases anyway, not a huge deal that can be done.

 

[Ken H]

If the barriers/staff dont let you leave with a valid ticket surely thats false imprisonment.

 

[Wolfie]

The staff at East Croydon were wrong; it's permitted to travel via East Croydon on a South Croydon to Gatwick ticket. You can also break your journey (i.e. get on or off) at East Croydon if you like.

That being said, you could be accused of having committed an offence under Railway Byelaw 9(2) by letting yourself through the barriers. It's fairly unlikely you'd be prosecuted for this, and as far as I can tell, you can't buy e-tickets between South Croydon and Gatwick so you couldn't be identified through that. But if the staff cared sufficiently or the British Transport Police were involved, I suppose it's possible they might look at the CCTV footage to try and identify you in case you pass through East Croydon again in the future.

If something like this happens to you again in the future, I'd suggest cooperating with the staff and providing your name and address if they ask for it. Let the police attend if need be. That way, by having complied with their instructions and having used a ticket in an entirely valid manner, you have done nothing wrong and can't be accused of anything.

Normally, I'd suggest raising a complaint with the train company in an instance like this, but given the circumstances, that is perhaps not a good idea.

It would be outrageous if the passenger reaction to staff incompetence and error resulted in prosecution. Hopefully any sensible prosecutor would drop the case or magistrates would decline to convict.

 

[kacper]

Nothing will come of this, east croydon sees a lot of actual fare evaders every day

 

[Haywain]

If the barriers/staff dont let you leave with a valid ticket surely thats false imprisonment.

It really isn’t.

 

[Class800]

It really isn’t.

explain? They are keeping you somewhere you don't want to be and don't need to be given you have a valid ticket

 

[Snow1964]

If something like this happens to you again in the future, I'd suggest cooperating with the staff and providing your name and address if they ask for it. Let the police attend if need be. That way, by having complied with their instructions and having used a ticket in an entirely valid manner, you have done nothing wrong and can't be accused of anything.

Of course, if BTP get called to deal with a customer with a valid ticket being harassed, verbally assaulted and pestered by anyone, you would hope they would look to arrest or charge the person who started it (the incorrect ticket checker)

But I'm not sure I would trust some BTP members to assess situations impartially.

Although quite clearly all the other barrier staff at East Croydon were wrong not to diffuse the situation by pulling aside the incorrect person causing a situation, then politely checking and saying all appears to be in order.

One can only assume they have been trained by same team as Blackpool North station staff.

 

[Haywain]

Of course, if BTP get called to deal with a customer with a valid ticket being harassed, verbally assaulted and pestered by anyone, you would hope they would look to arrest or charge the person who started it (the incorrect ticket checker)

If the police did get involved they certainly wouldn’t be arresting anyone over anything so trivial. They would simply give advice to resolve the immediate matter and encourage everyone to get on with their day.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 May 2024 ==

explain? They are keeping you somewhere you don't want to be and don't need to be given you have a valid ticket

Being detained for a few minutes is not false imprisonment.

 

[AlterEgo]

Of course, if BTP get called to deal with a customer with a valid ticket being harassed, verbally assaulted and pestered by anyone, you would hope they would look to arrest or charge the person who started it (the incorrect ticket checker)

Arrested for what?

If the BTP did attend they would just issue words of advice, roll their eyes, and nothing else would happen. Everyone involved has bigger fish to fry, especially at East Croydon.

 

[Watershed]

Being detained for a few minutes is not false imprisonment.

False imprisonment can arise even for detention that is only brief. The established compensation amounts for false imprisonment take this into account, with compensation typically being at least £800 for the first hour of detention.

That being said, false imprisonment rarely arises - even in circumstances where it feels "unfair" to be arrested or detained.

 

[computerSaysNo]

False imprisonment can arise even for detention that is only brief. The established compensation amounts for false imprisonment take this into account, with compensation typically being at least £800 for the first hour of detention.

Wasn't this one of the issues discussed in the Stansted Airport/Manual Ticket Checks thread? I followed said thread for the first few pages then got bored of the same arguments going round and round so stopped reading, so I don't know what the eventual consensus was
Edit: it was this thread: Stansted Airport station queues and railcard app not working.

 

[island]

That being said, false imprisonment rarely arises - even in circumstances where it feels "unfair" to be arrested or detained.

Indeed. It requires the detention to be intentional or reckless. The situation described does not come close.