South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Envoy]

The other day, I was at the Cardiff West Services at M4 J33. I wandered over to the northern boundary and took the 2 photos that are below.

I have seen maps that show a protected route for a Metro extension in the future coming from Fairwater and following the former single track rail line as far as the M4. To get to the north side of the M4, a cost effective way of doing this is to use the St.Y-Nyll lane underpass at Capel Llanilltern and then swing around the north side of the M4 services. The protected route then goes west to reach the former twin track railway line that then heads north up to Cregiau.

I don’t know what is going on in my photos but I would have thought that this was the land on which a future Metro extension would use to reach Cregiau?

 

[Tumbleweed]

The other day, I was at the Cardiff West Services at M4 J33. I wandered over to the northern boundary and took the 2 photos that are below.

I have seen maps that show a protected route for a Metro extension in the future coming from Fairwater and following the former single track rail line as far as the M4. To get to the north side of the M4, a cost effective way of doing this is to use the St.Y-Nyll lane underpass at Capel Llanilltern and then swing around the north side of the M4 services. The protected route then goes west to reach the former twin track railway line that then heads north up to Cregiau.

I don’t know what is going on in my photos but I would have thought that this was the land on which a future Metro extension would use to reach Cregiau?

The J33 roundabout is where the old line from St Fagans went to Pontypridd via Creigiau, Efail Isaf, Tonteg. Luckily it's still with us (mostly) as it was once earmarked as new road to connect with Upper Boat/Power Station Hill. Probably the best way to connect Creigiau to the light rail link.

 

[edwin_m]

The other day, I was at the Cardiff West Services at M4 J33. I wandered over to the northern boundary and took the 2 photos that are below.

I have seen maps that show a protected route for a Metro extension in the future coming from Fairwater and following the former single track rail line as far as the M4. To get to the north side of the M4, a cost effective way of doing this is to use the St.Y-Nyll lane underpass at Capel Llanilltern and then swing around the north side of the M4 services. The protected route then goes west to reach the former twin track railway line that then heads north up to Cregiau.

I don’t know what is going on in my photos but I would have thought that this was the land on which a future Metro extension would use to reach Cregiau?

Looks like some kind of utility installation, maybe a gas pressure reduction station.

 

[rf_ioliver]

The J33 roundabout is where the old line from St Fagans went to Pontypridd via Creigiau, Efail Isaf, Tonteg. Luckily it's still with us (mostly) as it was once earmarked as new road to connect with Upper Boat/Power Station Hill. Probably the best way to connect Creigiau to the light rail link.

There's also the line via Rhiwsaeson that crosses at Creigau. Isn't the plan to use this for rail from Fairwater to Creigau? If you follow that you still have quite an extant route all the way to Llantrisant and the modern Pontyclun station. The route between Beddau and Tonteg is now lost under development (Llantwit Faerdre was built over in the late 80s)

As for J33, the later plan was a spur to to the A4119 - nothing to UpperBoat, that's quite a distance away. https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Cardiff_West_Interchange

 

[Tumbleweed]

There's also the line via Rhiwsaeson that crosses at Creigau. Isn't the plan to use this for rail from Fairwater to Creigau? If you follow that you still have quite an extant route all the way to Llantrisant and the modern Pontyclun station. The route between Beddau and Tonteg is now lost under development (Llantwit Faerdre was built over in the late 80s)

As for J33, the later plan was a spur to to the A4119 - nothing to UpperBoat, that's quite a distance away. https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Cardiff_West_Interchange

I'm sure back in the 80's or 90's it was going to be a link to relieve pressure on J32 and it would follow the route of the railway, I can imagine the good people of Creigiau and Efail Isafe objected - I might be wrong, it was a long time ago!

Yeah the Rhiwsaeson route is still in situ - although the route has been severed by the A473 at Cross Inn and towards Beddau by a road embankment (both are not a hinderance to rail re-instatement though). The Beddau - Tonteg section is long gone as you said.

 

[Envoy]

There's also the line via Rhiwsaeson that crosses at Creigau. Isn't the plan to use this for rail from Fairwater to Creigau? If you follow that you still have quite an extant route all the way to Llantrisant and the modern Pontyclun station. The route between Beddau and Tonteg is now lost under development (Llantwit Faerdre was built over in the late 80s)

As for J33, the later plan was a spur to to the A4119 - nothing to UpperBoat, that's quite a distance away. https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Cardiff_West_Interchange

They can’t follow the alignment of the former Fairwater to Cregiau line all the way due to the M4 blocking the way plus the Canada Lakes now being on the alignment - hence the need to create a short new link on land just north of the Services at J33 to the protected alignment of the north - south twin track line that went through Cregiau. Look on Google Maps and you will now see new houses being built and clearly the old north - south rail route is protected from development. My concern is about the link that has to be created north of the services.

(J33 is not fit for purpose and regularly has jams. It really needs to have flyovers linking the M4 & A4232. The fact that no link exists with the A4119 at J33 also puts more traffic onto the local road network in St.Fagans, Groes Faen and Radyr. The situation at St.Fagans village & level crossing is already noticeably worse since the new developments started in NW Cardiff).

 

[5021]

There's also the line via Rhiwsaeson that crosses at Creigiau. Isn't the plan to use this for rail from Fairwater to Creigiau? If you follow that you still have quite an extant route all the way to Llantrisant and the modern Pontyclun station. The route between Beddau and Tonteg is now lost under development (Llantwit Fardre was built over in the late 80s)

As for J33, the later plan was a spur to to the A4119 - nothing to Upper Boat, that's quite a distance away. https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Cardiff_West_Interchange

Yes the plan for Cardiff Crossrail - of which we don't seem to have heard anything for quite a while - includes using the old "Common Branch" (Fairwater - Creigiau - Rhiwsaeson - Llantrisant) but as pointed out the Canada Lakes might require a short detour on to the old Barry Railway line south of Creigiau.

 

[John R]

Yes the plan for Cardiff Crossrail - of which we don't seem to have heard anything for quite a while - includes using the old "Common Branch" (Fairwater - Creigiau - Rhiwsaeson - Llantrisant) but as pointed out the Canada Lakes might require a short detour on to the old Barry Railway line south of Creigiau.

The planning work for the key central section between Cardiff Central and Bay is mentioned quite frequently, and I recall a consultation about the routing of the eastern section several months ago. It’s the western section which appears somewhat quiet.

 

[Envoy]

The planning work for the key central section between Cardiff Central and Bay is mentioned quite frequently, and I recall a consultation about the routing of the eastern section several months ago. It’s the western section which appears somewhat quiet.

Probably priorities as they have had enough on their plate modifying the present network including upgrading the Bay Line. Next priority must surely be connecting the Bay Line with Central which will involve the first bit of street running.

However, one would hope that the Fairwater to Cregiau project is not left on the back burner for too long as the amount of housing now going up is substantial. (They called it the ‘Plasdwr Garden Village’ yet from what I see, nothing “garden” about it - just a high density sprawl with very little private garden space on each property). The same sort of high density housing is going up north of M4 J33.

I also note that they permitted a high density new housing area at Ely Mill yet have failed to deliver the proposed station on the City Line at Ely Mill - which would also have served the Victoria Park area. Perhaps they are arguing behind the scenes as to who would fund the new footbridge - that would surely be needed - over the mainline to replace the present ancient structure?

 

[CapitalStar378]

Cardiff’s gain from the Metro works so far has been zero and only the Bay line works are ongoing (and this goes down to 4tph soon). No sign of a start on Crwys Rd station, no plan for Ely Mill and no increased frequencies on the City or Coryton lines (save Sunday services on the City line from next month).

Cardiff Parkway seems to be eternally stuck with the WG.

While the Valleys enhancements will be great, I’m unsure why the capital, with its massive traffic problems, seems a non priority.

 

[DD2]

Will the building of new tram train only stations be quicker and cheaper?

Hopefully once current routes are up and running with new stock, we can then see the real expansion take place and the advantages of tram trains capabilities.

 

[John R]

While the Valleys enhancements will be great, I’m unsure why the capital, with its massive traffic problems, seems a non priority.

Possibly because the valleys are seen as more deprived than fairly affluent Cardiff, and thus it’s a better use of limited resources to prioritise improvements there, especially if they increase travel to work opportunities.

It would be hard to disagree with them if that was the underlying reason.

 

[Dai Corner]

Possibly because the valleys are seen as more deprived than fairly affluent Cardiff, and thus it’s a better use of limited resources to prioritise improvements there, especially if they increase travel to work opportunities.

It would be hard to disagree with them if that was the underlying reason.

And if more commuters get the train instead of driving into Cardiff it should ease the traffic problems in the city.

 

[edwin_m]

It also helps the economy of Cardiff (as well as the Valleys) if more people can travel to work there.

 

[Topological]

And if more commuters get the train instead of driving into Cardiff it should ease the traffic problems in the city.

Yes

Plus the net benefit of improving the hinterlands is that the core gets spillover from the additional spending, as well as potentially becoming a more attractive place for business to invest. Many of the valleys are unlikely to move their focus away from Cardiff after all.

Pulling up the core would be more visible, but is unlikely to be sustainable if focus is not placed on all the areas that serve the core.

Though the WG do not get a lot right, I think they are doing right here.

 

[Krokodil]

Pulling up the core would be more visible, but is unlikely to be sustainable if focus is not placed on all the areas that serve the core.

Indeed, it's been quite common in the UK for "X is the busiest destination, we should improve transport to there", only for X to get busier as a result of the improved connections, whereas if investment had been ploughed into Y it might have encouraged economic growth there and taken the pressure off of X's infrastructure.

London of course is the most obvious example of investment in the already productive areas becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[CapitalStar378]

Possibly because the valleys are seen as more deprived than fairly affluent Cardiff, and thus it’s a better use of limited resources to prioritise improvements there, especially if they increase travel to work opportunities.

It would be hard to disagree with them if that was the underlying reason.

I don’t disagree but they don’t have to be mutually exclusive. Cardiff needs rail infrastructure investment and the costs would be relatively small.

 

[John R]

I don’t disagree but they don’t have to be mutually exclusive. Cardiff needs rail infrastructure investment and the costs would be relatively small.

That assumes there is an infinite pot of money. In real life of course, the money tree only delivers so much each year. So just like our own personal budgets, priorities have to be made.

 

[Meerkat]

That assumes there is an infinite pot of money. In real life of course, the money tree only delivers so much each year. So just like our own personal budgets, priorities have to be made.

It doesn’t sound like they even really have the money to do what they are already committed to!

 

[John R]

It doesn’t sound like they even really have the money to do what they are already committed to!

Exactly, which is why some items have been deferred.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Perhaps with the (apparently) impending congestion charge being introduced in Cardiff the priority is transport into the city first?

 

[RJ]

Possibly because the valleys are seen as more deprived than fairly affluent Cardiff, and thus it’s a better use of limited resources to prioritise improvements there, especially if they increase travel to work opportunities.

It would be hard to disagree with them if that was the underlying reason.

The Valleys have it hard getting into Cardiff really - the A470 is an unpredictable road, some mornings it’s ok and other mornings it’s down to walking pace. As for the trains, capacity has regressed from Sprinter and Pacer pairings to single Sprinters and people need to have extremely understanding employers if attempting to rely on the service.

I wouldn’t begrudge them improved infrastructure because getting to the capital is a bit of a challenge!

 

[slowroad]

Possibly because the valleys are seen as more deprived than fairly affluent Cardiff, and thus it’s a better use of limited resources to prioritise improvements there, especially if they increase travel to work opportunities.

It would be hard to disagree with them if that was the underlying reason.

Average levels of deprivation are indeed higher in the Valleys, but in absolute terms there are also lots of deprived people in Cardiff.

 

[RJ]

Average levels of deprivation are indeed higher in the Valleys, but in absolute terms there are also lots of deprived people in Cardiff.

There is a fairly comprehensive bus network in Cardiff though, suspect people in the city have access to more reliable transport to the city centre than those in the Valleys.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

btw what are the trains currently being used on the Merthyr line like for carrying cycles? (I'm thinking of taking a bike with me there in a couple of weeks' time).

 

[WoodHillsian]

The Valleys have it hard getting into Cardiff really - the A470 is an unpredictable road, some mornings it’s ok and other mornings it’s down to walking pace. As for the trains, capacity has regressed from Sprinter and Pacer pairings to single Sprinters and people need to have extremely understanding employers if attempting to rely on the service.

I wouldn’t begrudge them improved infrastructure because getting to the capital is a bit of a challenge!

The lack of an integrated bus service in the Valleys is a major problem - if you are in a village that doesn't have a railway station, then it's virtually impossible to get to and from Cardiff by public transport, especially evenings and weekends.

 

[RJ]

The lack of an integrated bus service in the Valleys is a major problem - if you are in a village that doesn't have a railway station, then it's virtually impossible to get to and from Cardiff by public transport, especially evenings and weekends.

True. I missed the hourly replacement bus in Aberdare one evening (the 172 arrives the same time it leaves) which prompted me look at local buses for an escape route to Cardiff, or at least Pontypridd. There was one bus that ran every two hours or something and took a rather long time to get to Ponty. No taxis about either. I then realised the railway is a lifeline for people who need to get about in the evenings and was very grateful when the replacement bus turned up an hour later!

As for the places with no public transport at all in the evenings, I think people have to rely on lifts or taxis

 

[Meerkat]

I read in May MR that they are working up a spec for conversion work so that the tram/trains could work on street sections, presumably at a multi-million quid extra cost.
I thought the whole point of buying the tram trains was that they could do street extensions, so why weren’t they ready for that from the start?!

A modification specification is being developed for the conversion of some or all of the Class 398 tram-trains ordered so far by TfW to make them suitable for on-street running - the conversion relates to differing wheel profiles needed for mainline and on-street operation. The approach is to minimise the conversion requirements and make the newly installed on-street infrastructure work with the existing fleet, and to avoid operating a sub-fleet if possible.

 

[Krokodil]

btw what are the trains currently being used on the Merthyr line like for carrying cycles? (I'm thinking of taking a bike with me there in a couple of weeks' time).

150s are used. Four bikes per train.

 

[stressdoubt]

I'm sure back in the 80's or 90's it was going to be a link to relieve pressure on J32 and it would follow the route of the railway, I can imagine the good people of Creigiau and Efail Isafe objected - I might be wrong, it was a long time ago!

Yeah the Rhiwsaeson route is still in situ - although the route has been severed by the A473 at Cross Inn and towards Beddau by a road embankment (both are not a hinderance to rail re-instatement though). The Beddau - Tonteg section is long gone as you said.

Growing up in Crieigau there was always talk of using the old railway(s) for one thing or another - the one plan people really objected to was the plan to take the lorries from Creigiau Quarry down the Rwhisaeson alignment from the quarry entrance at the end of Station Rd down to Llantrisant Rd/A4119 bypassing most of Heol Pant-y-Gored

Mind you I think if it ever comes to pass they will first off run it through Plas Dwr on the Rhiwsaeson alignment, then under the M4 at Heol Sant-y-Nyll and into Creigiau on the Efail Isaf alignment but stopping short of the old station site as the bridge over Cardiff Rd is long gone (the deck went in the 70s and the road was straightened in the late 80s to get rid of the nasty s-bend) so they would need to build a bridge which I reckon would be phase 2 although there is a lot of land around the old station site that could be used for stabling trains so perhaps they'd build the bridge as part of that - it will be interesting to see what (if anything) happens