South Western Railway Fare Evasion

[blurryberry]

Hello, this is my first time posting here
This morning I was travelling to my internship from Berrylands to Vauxhall as usual. To save some money, I have stupidly purchased ticket for a shorter journey. I know I have no excuse.

I was caught at the Vauxhall block and I provided all the information they needed.

Now I am waiting for the letter of prosecution and to be honest I am very worried, because I still want to apply for citizenship here in a few years.

Now I have a few questions:
1. Would it most likely be an out of court settlement? Or would they prosecute me for fraud (because I knowingly purchased a cheaper ticket).

2. I know they are entitled to check my online purchase record , and I would be happy to pay the fares. But how likely would they do it?

3. What should I include in the reply to their letter, and is there anything/ word that I can absolutely not use?

I will definitely not do it again, and I understand now the consequences of my actions. I am sincerely asking for advice for the best possible outcome for this.

Thank you very much!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello, this is my first time posting here
This morning I was travelling to my internship from Berrylands to Vauxhall as usual. To save some money, I have stupidly purchased ticket for a shorter journey. I have done this several times before. I know I have no excuse.

I was caught at the Vauxhall block and I provided all the information they needed.

Now I am waiting for the letter of prosecution and to be honest I am very worried, because I still want to apply for citizenship here in a few years.

Now I have a few questions:
1. Would it most likely be an out of court settlement? Or would they prosecute me for fraud (because I knowingly purchased a cheaper ticket).

2. I know they are entitled to check my online purchase record because I have done it several times before, and I would be happy to pay the fares. But how likely would they do it, and in the letter in respond to them, should i voluntarily mention it, or treat it as a one off event?

3. What should I include in the reply to their letter, and is there anything/ word that I can absolutely not use?

I will definitely not do it again, and I understand now the consequences of my actions. I am sincerely asking for advice for the best possible outcome for this.

Thank you very much!

Hi and welcome - you will get some useful advice on here as to the way forward, although until you receive their letter there is not much you can do apart from immediately ensure every train journey you go on has correct tickets, as you are now on the radar and under investigation.

ref your questions

1. Would it most likely be an out of court settlement? Or would they prosecute me for fraud (because I knowingly purchased a cheaper ticket).

Prosecutions for fraud are rare. More likely is a prosecution for fare evasion under relevant laws. But if you engage with the railway there is a good chance you can persuade them to agree an Out of Court settlement - tho this can never be guaranteed.

2. I know they are entitled to check my online purchase record because I have done it several times before, and I would be happy to pay the fares. But how likely would they do it, and in the letter in respond to them, should i voluntarily mention it, or treat it as a one off event?

Very likely they will check it, but unless they ask about it when they write to you it is probably best not to mention it in an initial reply - but do not lie in anything you send to them or say to them

3. What should I include in the reply to their letter, and is there anything/ word that I can absolutely not use?

Have a look at other threads for examples of responses and have a look for posts by @Hadders who often posts a very helpful general response to advise people what to expect and how best to reply in order to try and get offered a settlement and avoid prosecution.

 

[blurryberry]

Hi and welcome - you will get some useful advice on here as to the way forward, although until you receive their letter there is not much you can do apart from immediately ensure every train journey you go on has correct tickets, as you are now on the radar and under investigation.

ref your questions

1. Would it most likely be an out of court settlement? Or would they prosecute me for fraud (because I knowingly purchased a cheaper ticket).

Prosecutions for fraud are rare. More likely is a prosecution for fare evasion under relevant laws. But if you engage with the railway there is a good chance you can persuade them to agree an Out of Court settlement - tho this can never be guaranteed.

2. I know they are entitled to check my online purchase record because I have done it several times before, and I would be happy to pay the fares. But how likely would they do it, and in the letter in respond to them, should i voluntarily mention it, or treat it as a one off event?

Very likely they will check it, but unless they ask about it when they write to you it is probably best not to mention it in an initial reply - but do not lie in anything you send to them or say to them

3. What should I include in the reply to their letter, and is there anything/ word that I can absolutely not use?

Have a look at other threads for examples of responses and have a look for posts by @Hadders who often posts a very helpful general response to advise people what to expect and how best to reply in order to try and get offered a settlement and avoid prosecution.

Thank you very much for your reply!

I will look into the threads and hopefully it will not be taken to the court

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Apr 2024 ==

Another question, may I know if SWR is inclined to charge the full adult fare ticket, or the differences?

I am trying to sum up and calculate the potential amount, so I can make financial plans

 

[WesternLancer]

I can’t recall what other SWR cases have been charged. But u could search the forum for some. You should allow a sum that covers the full ticket at the Anytime rate with no allowance for what you have paid. There is the need for an element of the punitive about evasion or people would just do it until they are caught and be no worse off than those who obey the rules after all.

 

[blurryberry]

I can’t recall what other SWR cases have been charged. But u could search the forum for some. You should allow a sum that covers the full ticket at the Anytime rate with no allowance for what you have paid. There is the need for an element of the punitive about evasion or people would just do it until they are caught and be no worse off than those who obey the rules after all.

Totally understand
I will keep posting about the updates and hopefully it will be a good reference point for other people having the same situation

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

To add to what's already been said, SWR will write to you in the next few weeks. The letter will use quite threatening language and say that they have received a report and have sufficient evidence to prosecute but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. It is very important that you reply to this letter. You might want to mention the following points in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

SWR are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. We cannot guarantee this and SWR are within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court should they choose to do so.

An aggravating factor is that you have done this before. SWR will be able to search your purchase history and will likely ask you about these further instances.

If you are offered a settlement you will need to be prepared to pay the outstanding fares at the full Anytime rate with no credit for the tickets you did purchase. You will also need to pay an admin fee of at least £150. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[blurryberry]

Welcome to the forum!

To add to what's already been said, SWR will write to you in the next few weeks. The letter will use quite threatening language and say that they have received a report and have sufficient evidence to prosecute but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. It is very important that you reply to this letter. You might want to mention the following points in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

SWR are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. We cannot guarantee this and SWR are within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court should they choose to do so.

An aggravating factor is that you have done this before. SWR will be able to search your purchase history and will likely ask you about these further instances.

If you are offered a settlement you will need to be prepared to pay the outstanding fares at the full Anytime rate with no credit for the tickets you did purchase. You will also need to pay an admin fee of at least £150. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Thank you very much! I will make sure to upload the letter here !

 

[ikcdab]

What should I include in the reply to their letter, and is there anything/ word that I can absolutely not use?

When you write your reply, do not use chatgpt or similar. The results are usually awful and overblown.
Just write it in your own words as if you were talking to the person in the room.

 

[blurryberry]

When you write your reply, do not use chatgpt or similar. The results are usually awful and overblown.
Just write it in your own words as if you were talking to the person in the room.

I will not use any AI it usually turns out horrible….
However, English is not my first language, so I might require a little help drafting the letter

 

[notmyrealname]

The best thing is for you to draft your reply because only you know the full story. Then people here will help with proofreading and suggestions.

 

[blurryberry]

The best thing is for you to draft your reply because only you know the full story. Then people here will help with proofreading and suggestions.

I will post the drafted reply once I receive the letter from them

I’m kind of anxious because it looks like SWR isn’t one of the most lenient company - they do invite people for interviews. And they charge full fares without taking into account what’s been paid.

But again it’s completely my fault

 

[blurryberry]

Hello all! To give you all an update, I have received an email from SWR and here is the content:



I have drafted the following respond, and it would be extremely helpful if you all could give me some advice on it! Thank you very much!

Dear Mr. (Officer's name),

Thank you for the email. I am extremely grateful that I have been given the opportunity to communicate with South Western Railway before the matter is taken to court.

I am very ashamed to admit that I have been short-faring to get between Berrylands and central London (Vauxhall, London Waterloo and Clapham Junction), as you can see from the records. I took advantage of the fact that there is no ticket gate at Berrylands, which made short-faring possible. I started doing it because of my financial hardship, but I also understand that it is not a reason to justify my wrong doing, and I deeply regret it.

After the incident, I have made sure to pay the full fare by using my oyster card and contactless card, and tapping both in and out of each journey. I have learnt that my selfish act causes taxpayers in the UK millions of pounds every year. I also realized that the community around me is not aware of the seriousness of fare evading, and I have shared my story as a warning to people, and hopefully to stop them from committing the crime. I will not be fare-evading ever again.

I have however a slight confusion. According to my record on trainline, my first short-faring journey was on 9th October 2022, from Clapham Junction to Vauxhall, which is slightly different from your record of 11th September 2021. To avoid any misunderstanding, may I know if I can compare the records? There is no barcode scanner or ticket gates in Berrylands (only card reader available), which is the reason why even for some full fare tickets, there will be no records of scanning in or out. I am wondering if that is the cause of the different dates?

Again, I am extremely sorry, and ashamed for what I have done, and I will never do it again. I am willing to pay for the missing fares and any administrative fees incurred by my action. I sincerely hope that it can be settled out of court.

Thank you again very much for the chance SWR has given me to explain myself. Hope you have a nice week ahead, and I look forward to hearing back from you.

Yours sincerely,
(My name)

 

[30907]

Hi and welcome back!

IMO you have slightly overdone the verbal apologies, and the person at the other end will appreciate having less to read.

A couple of comments:
Para 3 - your selfish act hasn't cost millions of pounds - fare evasion (overall) does.
Para 4 - I suggest you delete the last two sentences altogether (the reader won't be interested!). Only include the rest of the paragraph if you are confident that you never short-fared before October 2022. You might then ask "are you able to supply details of alleged offences prior to that?" (the date they give is specific, so they should be able to do this.)

 

[blurryberry]

Hi and welcome back!

IMO you have slightly overdone the verbal apologies, and the person at the other end will appreciate having less to read.

A couple of comments:
Para 3 - your selfish act hasn't cost millions of pounds - fare evasion (overall) does.
Para 4 - I suggest you delete the last two sentences altogether (the reader won't be interested!). Only include the rest of the paragraph if you are confident that you never short-fared before October 2022. You might then ask "are you able to supply details of alleged offences prior to that?" (the date they give is specific, so they should be able to do this.)

Thank you so much for the comments!
Here is the amended version:

Dear Mr. (Officer),

Thank you for the email. I am extremely grateful to be given the opportunity to communicate with South Western Railway before the incident is taken to court.

I am very ashamed to admit that I have been short-faring to get from Berrylands to central London (Vauxhall, London Waterloo and Clapham Junction), as you can see from the records. I took advantage of the fact that there is no ticket gate at Berrylands, which made short-faring possible for me. I started doing it because of my financial hardship, but I also understand that it is not a reason to justify my wrong doing, and I deeply regret it.

After the incident, I have made sure to pay the full fare by using my oyster card and contactless card and tapping both in and out of each journey. I have learnt that fare evasion is a selfish act that costs taxpayers in the UK millions of pounds every year. I also realized that the community around me is not aware of the seriousness of fare evading, and I have shared my story as a warning to people, and hopefully to stop them from committing the crime.

I have however a slight confusion. According to my record on Trainline, my first short-faring journey was on 9th October 2022, from Clapham Junction to Vauxhall, which is slightly different from your record of 11th September 2021. To avoid any misunderstanding, may I know if you could supply details of the alleged offences prior to that?

Again, I am very sorry for what I have done, and I will never do it again. I am willing to pay for the missing fares and any administrative fees incurred by my action. I sincerely hope that it can be settled out of court.

Thank you again and I look forward to hearing back from you.

Yours sincerely,
(My name)

 

[Haywain]

I am willing to pay for the missing fares and any administrative fees incurred by my action. I sincerely hope that it can be settled out of court.

Change this to somerthing like 'I would appreciate the opportunity to pay...' - you are asking for this, not offering it.

 

[blurryberry]

Change this to somerthing like 'I would appreciate the opportunity to pay...' - you are asking for this, not offering it.

Thank you so much!

Dear Mr. (Officer),

Thank you for the email. I am extremely grateful to be given the opportunity to communicate with South Western Railway before the incident is taken to court.

I am very ashamed to admit that I have been short-faring to get from Berrylands to central London (Vauxhall, London Waterloo and Clapham Junction), as you can see from the records. I took advantage of the fact that there is no ticket gate at Berrylands, which made short-faring possible for me. I started doing it because of my financial hardship, but I also understand that it is not a reason to justify my wrongdoing, and I deeply regret it.

After the incident, I have made sure to pay the full fare by using my oyster card and contactless card and tapping both in and out of each journey. I have learnt that fare evasion is a selfish act that costs taxpayers in the UK millions of pounds every year. I also realized that the community around me is not aware of the seriousness of fare evading, and I have shared my story as a warning to people, and hopefully to stop them from committing the crime.

I have however a slight confusion. According to my record on Trainline, my first short-faring journey was on 9th October 2022, from Clapham Junction to Vauxhall, which is slightly different from your record of 11th September 2021. To avoid any misunderstanding, may I know if you could supply details of the alleged offences prior to that?

Again, I am very sorry for what I have done, and I will never do it again. I would appreciate the opportunity to pay for the missing fares and any administrative fees incurred by my actions. I sincerely hope that it can be settled out of court.

Thank you again and I look forward to hearing back from you.

Yours sincerely,
(My name)

 

[Hadders]

I have however a slight confusion. According to my record on Trainline, my first short-faring journey was on 9th October 2022, from Clapham Junction to Vauxhall, which is slightly different from your record of 11th September 2021. To avoid any misunderstanding, may I know if you could supply details of the alleged offences prior to that?

I would change this.

I would say something to the effect that you have checked your ticket purchasing history and discovered that you have travelled with invalid tickets xx number of times since October 2022, but then provide an explanation as to why the ticket between 11th September 2021 and October 2022 were valid.

 

[blurryberry]

I would change this.

I would say something to the effect that you have checked your ticket purchasing history and discovered that you have travelled with invalid tickets xx number of times since October 2022, but then provide an explanation as to why the ticket between 11th September 2021 and October 2022 were valid.

Thank you! I would add that on as well!

 

[SN25]

Please keep us updated with their response!

 

[blurryberry]

Please keep us updated with their response!

Of course! I want other people who are in the same situation to be able to take reference from this!

This is their newest response…I hope they are not going to escalate this to the court.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2024 ==

Hello everyone!

They have corrected the dates and offered me an out of court settlement.

Just paid it off!

Thank you very much for everyone’s help ! I hope anyone in the same situation coming across this post will be able to find it helpful!

 

[VHXCommuter]

Hey @blurryberry , I've just been caught for exactly the same thing, although I've commuted from Surrey. I was really relieved to see your thread. May I ask you how many times you offended? I'm extremely embarrassed and can't believe what an idiot I am for thinking I'd save my employer a few quid whilst I waited for my season ticket. Looks like I did it 23 times and I was literally due to to get my season ticket this week!!

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

If you would like advice on your problem, it's best to start a new thread and ask. Advising two different people on one thread never works.

 

[fares]

Of course! I want other people who are in the same situation to be able to take reference from this!

This is their newest response…I hope they are not going to escalate this to the court.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2024 ==

Hello everyone!

They have corrected the dates and offered me an out of court settlement.

Just paid it off!

Thank you very much for everyone’s help ! I hope anyone in the same situation coming across this post will be able to find it helpful!

Hello sir I hope you sort out your matter you had with swr please could you tell me if you can email them about the case happened to you thank you

 

[Gloster]

Hello sir I hope you sort out your matter you had with swr please could you tell me if you can email them about the case happened to you thank you

If you have a problem please start your own thread. No two cases are exactly the same and good advice for one can be bad advice for another.