4 of the 5 cars out today.
HD01,03,06 and 07. But I believe HD06 had had a break fault so it’s running has been cut short.
Recently, we’ve been having 4 sets out quite regularly.
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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.
- Thread starter hexagon789
- Start date
HD01,03,06 and 07. But I believe HD06 had had a break fault so it’s running has been cut short.
Recently, we’ve been having 4 sets out quite regularly.
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BillStampy
Established Member
Back to 197s, there hasn't been any new 197s in a while now? Some went to Chester but then back to Crewe, so I'm unsure what's what. Too many of the 197s are being used on regional services, 197118, 120 are now on Maesteg. Realistically shouldn't be.
Todays depatures from Manchester
0627 5 car MK4
0730 3 car 197
0830 5 car MK4
0930 3 car 197
1030 2 car 197
1130 3 car 197
1230 5 car MK4
1330 3 car 197
1430 5 car MK4
1530 2 car 197
1630 3 car 197 (started from Crewe due to inbound running late)
1730 3 car 197
1830 3 car 197
1930 2 car 197
2030 2 car 197
So still quite a few 3 cars which is a big improvement on 6 months ago - and no sign of any sprinters especially the truly awful 150s.
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I think 2 car 197s should be okay for Maesteg the vast amount of time - however its probabaly a case of the wrong set ends up in the wrong place so 3 cars will end up there sometimes.
I dont know what the hold up is with more being introduced into service.
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BillStampy
Established Member
I know I am very biased since the only trains from my station are Maestegs almost all day, but 2 coaches purely isn't enough I'm afraid, but I do understand 3 coaches should certainly be on Manchesters and Holyheads rather than it. Just a situation of waiting for 231s I suppose.
Topological
Established Member
Thankfully there were some changes to the allocations. The 18:30 from Manchester is always cosy when I take it and it has 2 carriages.
Still a couple of 2's but not as bad as it was looking earlier today.
Still a couple of 2's but not as bad as it was looking earlier today.
Fair enough. I hadnt checked earlier on. But yes I agree about the 1830 ex Manchester. Ive not used that one since 2022 before it was split from being a Carmarthen service but have used it many times over the years and was always busy as a 2 car (particularly between Manchester-Shrewsbury)
BillStampy
Established Member
The last 197/1 without standard plus has entered service this morning, 197102, good to see another join the fleet. Interestingly going straight South today.
Now unallocated, changed to 197049
Now unallocated, changed to 197049
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SuperLuke2334
Established Member
Just become unallocated.
DannyMich2018
Member
- Joined
- 19 Dec 2018
- Messages
- 942
According to RTT four departures from Manchester were Mk4, 2 morning and 2 afternoon, the Mk 4 thread today says only 1 diagram out possibly too today. Problem is 27 175s plus 12 170s have left and at the min the number of 197 diagrams is similar to that fleet so we've not gained much in terms of overall fleet size so until both Mk4 and 197 availibility improve we will continue to see short forms.
Yep so, the 4 MK4 diagrams that were covered yesterday have 5 departures from Manchester. The 16:30 had to start from Crewe as a 197 as the set failed.
There are only 7 MK4 departures from Manchester a day if all 5 diagrams are fully covered.
There are currently no MK4’s out today. One might make an appearance later.
A Very, very bad day for MK4’s that we haven’t seen the likes of for quite some time.
I’m well aware of the problems haha. I have been working some of those short forming’s, set swaps and absolute chaos that it all brings.
I’m not sure what your point is, you said they have woeful reliability and there were only 2 sets out. I merely pointed out that actually, reliability had improved significantly in recent times with all 4 planned diagrams getting covered more often than not, let’s not forget the 5th diagram is unplanned as MK4 and doesn’t covered even when a set is available, and that on that particular day there were 4 sets out and not 2 as you stated.
I think you may not be getting the most up to date information when you’re posting so I just clarified for the benefit of everyone.
Looks like a lot more 2 cars on Manchester to South Wales departures today, not surprising as not a single MK4 set is out today and there are supposed to be 3 on a Saturday (4 eventually but one is booked for a 197). Apart from a 158 on the 0627 and a pair of 153s on the 1130 departures everything else looks to be a 197. At least there is no sign of any 150s which are the worst of the lot IMO.
197 availability seems to be quite good today considering some are also covering for MK4's. Clearly some short forms but to be expected.
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The first Swansea-Manchester 197118 left 25 mins late this morning and yet by Shrewsbury was on time. Arrived into Wilmslow 4 mnutes early. That is amazing recovery time and one of the many reasons I prefer a 197 over a MK4. I cant imagine the MK4 would have made up much time with a 25 minute delay compared to the 197. Also proof that the Swansea-Manchester journey could be done so much quicker even with the many stops.
197 availability seems to be quite good today considering some are also covering for MK4's. Clearly some short forms but to be expected.
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The first Swansea-Manchester 197118 left 25 mins late this morning and yet by Shrewsbury was on time. Arrived into Wilmslow 4 mnutes early. That is amazing recovery time and one of the many reasons I prefer a 197 over a MK4. I cant imagine the MK4 would have made up much time with a 25 minute delay compared to the 197. Also proof that the Swansea-Manchester journey could be done so much quicker even with the many stops.
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DannyMich2018
Member
- Joined
- 19 Dec 2018
- Messages
- 942
Yes apologies, I thought there was only 2 out- I think we can all agree its not ideal for the poor passengers having to squeeze on 2 car units. I can't remember the Northern 195 having so many issues as the 197s, WMT have 2 196s still to accept due to issues. According to RTT a pair of 153s and at least 2 2-car 197s on Man-Cardiff today.
anthony263
Established Member
Having a laugh there passenger numbers have risen quite a bit on Maesteg services and this is also on the branch itself not just passengers at Bridgend, Pencoed etc.
There's certainly demand for 4 carriage trains on the route now when I was driving the 65 bus route through Pencoed you'd regularly see a 3 carriage 170 etc arrive nearly full with large amount of people on the platform.
This is why I could see TFWs logic stopping swanline services at Pencoed etc ro give them.close to a half hourly service I just think tfw have dropped the ball keeping swanline 2 hourly 0900-1600 it really needs to run hourly from Dec
Yeah I’m not sure what’s holding up 197 acceptance but I wish it would hurry up
Not it’s really far from ideal. I’ve been a big advocate for what TFW are doing with the 197’s and MK4’s but days like today do go totally the opposite.
I would be very interested to know (and probably never will) if the MK4’s had been running today, what the units used to cover them would have been doing instead.
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A very small win that there’s no 150’s, which surprised me too.
Assuming no stops were omitted in that late running service then that’s fantastic.
It’s another one of those things that’s hard to explain to people who say they wish they old stock would stay. Which there are plenty of on here and very few of in real life.
It does make me wonder if they will re-do the timetables to account for the much better SRT’s once the the full 197 fleet is operational, which would take away some of the ability to make up lost time like this.
anthony263
Established Member
I had my 1st trip on a 197 yesterday morning from Pyle at 0559 train was pulling into Bridgend at 0605 and we had to sit there fora few minutes then it had no problems charging up stormy bank from a standing startYeah I’m not sure what’s holding up 197 acceptance but I wish it would hurry up
Not it’s really far from ideal. I’ve been a big advocate for what TFW are doing with the 197’s and MK4’s but days like today do go totally the opposite.
I would be very interested to know (and probably never will) if the MK4’s had been running today, what the units used to cover them would have been doing instead.
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A very small win that there’s no 150’s, which surprised me too.
Assuming no stops were omitted in that late running service then that’s fantastic.
It’s another one of those things that’s hard to explain to people who say they wish they old stock would stay. Which there are plenty of on here and very few of in real life.
It does make me wonder if they will re-do the timetables to account for the much better SRT’s once the the full 197 fleet is operational, which would take away some of the ability to make up lost time like this.
Ok fair enough. I don't use the Maesteg service all that much and when I have used it a 2 car has been adequate.
Agreed Swanline is long overdue being hourly
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I'd like to know where they manage to find the spare 197s to cover the Mk4 too..do they just rearrange maintenance or are there a few 197s not allocated each day to account of these problems..Yeah I’m not sure what’s holding up 197 acceptance but I wish it would hurry up
Not it’s really far from ideal. I’ve been a big advocate for what TFW are doing with the 197’s and MK4’s but days like today do go totally the opposite.
I would be very interested to know (and probably never will) if the MK4’s had been running today, what the units used to cover them would have been doing instead.
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A very small win that there’s no 150’s, which surprised me too.
Assuming no stops were omitted in that late running service then that’s fantastic.
It’s another one of those things that’s hard to explain to people who say they wish they old stock would stay. Which there are plenty of on here and very few of in real life.
It does make me wonder if they will re-do the timetables to account for the much better SRT’s once the the full 197 fleet is operational, which would take away some of the ability to make up lost time like this.
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Yes acceleration on a 197 is impressive
Welshguy1048
Established Member
BBC News - Trains named after Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney's home cities - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk
Trains named after Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney's home cities
Two new trains are named after the home cities of Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney.
www.bbc.co.uk
anthony263
Established Member
197001 and 197004 are the units nanedBBC News - Trains named after Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney's home cities - BBC News
Trains named after Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney's home cities
Two new trains are named after the home cities of Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney.
On a Saturday there look to be 10 units either in maintenance/spare or exams.
Most of the swaps today were pre-planned so it should be possible to pull a couple from the spares.
197s have enough of their own issues that often uses some of the "static" diagrams.
Topological
Established Member
The 175s had a lot of 3-cars and were much better than a 150.Yeah I’m not sure what’s holding up 197 acceptance but I wish it would hurry up
Not it’s really far from ideal. I’ve been a big advocate for what TFW are doing with the 197’s and MK4’s but days like today do go totally the opposite.
I would be very interested to know (and probably never will) if the MK4’s had been running today, what the units used to cover them would have been doing instead.
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A very small win that there’s no 150’s, which surprised me too.
Assuming no stops were omitted in that late running service then that’s fantastic.
It’s another one of those things that’s hard to explain to people who say they wish they old stock would stay. Which there are plenty of on here and very few of in real life.
It does make me wonder if they will re-do the timetables to account for the much better SRT’s once the the full 197 fleet is operational, which would take away some of the ability to make up lost time like this.
I wish they would have managed the transfer from 175 to 197 without any use of 150s and with absolutely no vanity projects like the Mk4. Yes the Mk4 are nice when they run, but this is a railway not a train set and frankly the Mk4 availability is appalling.
As a passenger on a 150, I never heard anyone say it was better than a 175, or they were glad we had 150s because that meant that we were getting new trains.
It is somewhat painting a strange picture to say you never found anyone who wished the old stock would stay, not least that 150s are older than 175s.
Almost everything is better than a 150 in my opinion haha.
It would have been nice if it could have been 1 out and then 1 in.
What I’m saying is, on here and railway pages on Facebook, I quite often see people saying they don’t want the 197’s and wish X stock would stay. 158’s (especially ALOT on the Cambrian pages) and 175’s are the usual but I’ve seen one or two say 150’s, even a few saying they wish pacers would come back, 150’s are usually toted instead of the 230’s.
In real life, on trains, I’ve never known anyone to actually say they want the old stock back, the vast majority are very fond of the ‘new’ stock wether it be 197, FLIRT, 230 or MK4.
My point is that, these people who often make out like the 197’s are a complete downgrade on the older stock (even the nicer older stock such as 158’s and 175’s) when there are some very good things about them even if they’re not perfect.
On the Cambrian, the 158’s won’t get up to line speed going up Llanbadarn bank leaving Aberystwyth and will still get to Bow street with 3 or 4 minutes to spare. 197’s will fly up the bank and get to line speed without any issue so could even have 6-8 minutes there. Not that useful when things are ‘normal’ but if the turn around time at Aberystwyth can be made longer due to this increased performance then you can not only get a fully clock face timetable but you also have more resilience to the timetable as the chance of the return working being on time is higher.
I guess its the same as the 150s and 153s where there were always some 'spare' to deputise for the 175s and then 197s.
The 197s being a much bigger fleet of currently 46/47 units there is probably a lot more that can cover for missing diagrams then the 175s had with 27 in the fleet.
childwallblues
Established Member
001 and 004 were both on Liverpool services yesterday but what were the names please?
Andy Pacer
Established Member
Have these theoretically also replaced other types? 170s etc?
Yes.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
That'll go down well on TfW's English routes.BBC News - Trains named after Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney's home cities - BBC News
Trains named after Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney's home cities
Two new trains are named after the home cities of Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney.
I hope they have some equivalent localisation thing in mind for places on its network like Heswall, Gobowen and Hereford!
It is Wales & Borders after all...
Think this is some more enthusiast bias, most people won’t even know and even more won’t care.
Anyway, the franchise might be ‘wales and borders’ but the company is quite literally called, transport for … Wales.
Topological
Established Member
To be fair they could have named some 153s after Wrexham's owners. That way there would be more chance of them making it to Manchester coupled together (and thus, for the League 2 fans out there, making it past Edgeley Park).
The 197s appear to have gone AWOL from the Marches again this morning and that is the thing that really goes down badly on TfWs English routes.
Well they might well be on former 170s routes at the moment but the long term plan is for FLIRTS to appear on these routes. And in any case, even accounting for say 11 x 170s and 27 x 175s there are 46 or so 197s in service so there should be some spare capacity by now.
There are also a few used for former 150 routes such as Conwy Valley, Chester to Crewe and Borderlands.
When they dont use the 'spare' 197s to cover the absent MK4's it would be nice to use them for extra capacity on the Marches. Yesterday i ended up using a 2 car 197 on two occasions and both were cosy to say the least. Very lucky to find a seat both times. It always amazes me how many people choose to stand on a 197 especially around the doors even when there are a few seats here and there.