"Lifting" of disused lines

[asylumxl]

Reading a book on Tavistocks former railways today, something crossed my mind regarding the lifting of disused lines.

First things that come to mind are that such a job would require labour, heavy machinery and some form of transport to remove the relevant materials.

Does the money gained from the sale of all the various pieces vastly outweigh the cost of removing it? If so, by how muCh?

I can imagine for large areas such as former yards there would be money to be made selling to developers, but what about trackbed, which is often more narrow?

Cheers for any help. Appreciated.

 

[Greenback]

There were trakclifing trains. I saw one in 1985, removing th eline that travelled up the east side of the River Tawe in Swansea.

A lot of the former railway formations in this area have become footpaths and cycleways. Or been swallowed up by new roads, and retail park or waterfront developments. It's astonishing how much railway there used to be in Llanelli, mostly it was built to serve the mineral industries. Once those industries disappeared, so did the railways.

I don't know about the cost of removing track. But it must be cheaper than havign to maintain lines that no longer serve any purpose. An abandoned line often has to eb relaid before it is brought back into use in any case (Ebbw Vale!). What needs to be done is to ensure that trackbeds are protected and not built on, as this makes future reopenings far more diffcult to achieve.

 

[gordonthemoron]

unlike tram lines which were frequently tarmaced over

 

[asylumxl]

Thank you for the replies. You mention the trackbed, which is the part I'm most interested in. I understand most track needs to be relaid when the line is reinstated, but surely it's cheaper in the long term to preserve the line to save on costs when reinstating it?

Also, I may have totally imagined this, but isn't there rules in place in Ireland which prevent the redevelopment of infrastructure so it can be reinstated in the future?

 

[trickyvegas]

Also, I may have totally imagined this, but isn't there rules in place in Ireland which prevent the redevelopment of infrastructure so it can be reinstated in the future?

I'm fairly sure that similar thinking was in mind when converting old lines into footpath/bridleways - Monyash Trail, Longendale Way & Middlewood Way spring to mind (Although I'm not sure the latter will ever see rails again) - as a way of keeping them free from being developed as well as creating a public amenity in the meantime

 

[gordonthemoron]

the old Nottingham Victoria-Melton line's trackbed (i.e. ballast) is still in place through West Bridgord (where the route still exists)

 

[Yew]

Currently the line at the turn off at shirebrook jjunction is unused, they only run soem driver trainings down there. Notts CC are looking at extending that over to ollderton though (although short of money atm)

 

[asylumxl]

I'm fairly sure that similar thinking was in mind when converting old lines into footpath/bridleways - Monyash Trail, Longendale Way & Middlewood Way spring to mind (Although I'm not sure the latter will ever see rails again) - as a way of keeping them free from being developed as well as creating a public amenity in the meantime

I'd be very interested to know how many disused lines were turned into cycle paths etc though.

I know of several lines in my area which have just been redeveloped and all evidence of the railways lost.

 

[90019]

Most of the ones around Edinburgh have been turned into cycle paths. Some of the old platforms are still there, along with a couple of station buildings that are now houses.

 

[ACE1888]

Hindsight, the most wonderful thing ever, sell off old yards etc, but a 'block' on trackbed development should have been made Law in the Beeching era, sadly it wasn't...

 

[Greenback]

Thank you for the replies. You mention the trackbed, which is the part I'm most interested in. I understand most track needs to be relaid when the line is reinstated, but surely it's cheaper in the long term to preserve the line to save on costs when reinstating it?

Also, I may have totally imagined this, but isn't there rules in place in Ireland which prevent the redevelopment of infrastructure so it can be reinstated in the future?

The main problem with that is it's impossible to tell if a line will be needed again. There are a number of lines that have been mothballed, in anticipation of traffic returning to them one day, like the Ebbw Vale example I mentioned earlier, but most of the cost of reopening a line would be tied up in the signalling and station construction rather than the actual track.

I am no expert, but I doubt it is any more expensive to lay new track than it is to keep the line maintained when it's out of use.

 

[Spagnoletti]

The main problem with that is it's impossible to tell if a line will be needed again. There are a number of lines that have been mothballed, in anticipation of traffic returning to them one day, like the Ebbw Vale example I mentioned earlier, but most of the cost of reopening a line would be tied up in the signalling and station construction rather than the actual track.

I am no expert, but I doubt it is any more expensive to lay new track than it is to keep the line maintained when it's out of use.

I'm pretty sure I've seen comments in the past by p-way engineers that once vegetation gets established in the formation the remedial work extends well beyond track and sleepers.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

During the preparation works for the line extensions for the current MANCHESTER METROLINK system, the point of the use of old railway track beds was very relevant on the link to East Didsbury, as this uses the track bed of the long-closed route to Stockport Tiviot Dale station. This section has had all the trees and shrubs removed and the new base substrate for the new trackwork is being laid down.

 

[The Sleeper]

There is a law in Ireland that prevent the trackbed being sold off after being closed. I am not sure how long for but certainly there are locations like Youghal on the branch from Cork. Part of this has been reopened and beyond the track is still in place. The new WestRail line from Ennis to Athenry was completely relaid and the old track disposed of a new trackbed and drainage system had to be put in place as the old formation was unusable due to no maintenance having been done. With regards to Tavistock, when (if) they do get round to relaying the line from Calstock new drains and new ballast and cable troughs will be needed.

 

[Greenback]

I think that leaving the track in situ in places like Tavistock would have been very expensive and unjustifiable. It could not have been foreseen that it would ever reopen, and to maintain the formation and track would have cost almost as much as keeping the line open!

 

[andyfrommk]

I'd be very interested to know how many disused lines were turned into cycle paths etc though.

The Wolverton to Newport Pagnell Line has been turned into a cycle path, the stations platforms (apart from Newport Pagnell) are still extant so is a signal post

 

[ACE1888]

I think that leaving the track in situ in places like Tavistock would have been very expensive and unjustifiable. It could not have been foreseen that it would ever reopen, and to maintain the formation and track would have cost almost as much as keeping the line open!

One of daftest closures ever, well in the South West anyway, was the section between Bere Alston and Tavistock, let alone the section from Bere Alston to Meldon...anyone got an update on the Tavistock reopening btw???

 

[Rhydgaled]

I don't know about the cost of removing track. But it must be cheaper than havign to maintain lines that no longer serve any purpose.

But they don't necessarily have to maintain them, the Amlwch branch on Anglesy still has track apparently but I've heard there are trees growing out from it so it obviously isn't maintained. Similar can probablly be said for Bleanau Ffestiniog - Trawsffyndd.

Thank you for the replies. You mention the trackbed, which is the part I'm most interested in. I understand most track needs to be relaid when the line is reinstated, but surely it's cheaper in the long term to preserve the line to save on costs when reinstating it?

I agree, whether or not you lift the rails and sleepers, the formation should be left intact (or at least refuse change of use to anything other than grazing land (which would make re-opening much easier than allowing any sort of building work)). Such a policy should be enacted now on all remaining closed lines, in fact I seem to remember that reading the Tory manifesto in the run up to the last general election they were going to introduce a moratorium on building on disused rail paths. Has this been done? If not, perhaps somebody should remind Hammond.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I'm fairly sure that similar thinking was in mind when converting old lines into footpath/bridleways - Monyash Trail, Longendale Way & Middlewood Way spring to mind (Although I'm not sure the latter will ever see rails again) - as a way of keeping them free from being developed as well as creating a public amenity in the meantime

I'm not aware of the Monyash Trail? I presume you mean the Monsal Trail?

 

[Aictos]

The former Fletton Flyash Loop line is still there with weeds but the actual junction with the ECML got plain lined about 2 to 3 years ago.

 

[yummy125]

The Oxford - Bletchley & Stourbridge–Walsall Routes should reopen as they can help with easing freight & passenger links.

 

[Trainbuff]

One of daftest closures ever, well in the South West anyway, was the section between Bere Alston and Tavistock, let alone the section from Bere Alston to Meldon...anyone got an update on the Tavistock reopening btw???

Totally agree with you. I walked on a part of the section only a few weeks ago up to the Southern portall of Shillamill Tunnel. The trackbed has been cleared here and it was relatively easy going. West Devon Council are installing fencing et al for the cycle track (including aroun the Tunnel, (for obvious reasons it is not a good idea to have a cycle path through a tunnel used by trains!). Also I could see that much work had been done on new drainage in the tunnel as well as along the formation. I walked about 2 miles to the tunnel.

There are many links to look at, including a study of the A386 transport times of travel to Plymouth.

The last report is dated October 2010 by Jacobs Consultancy and I have given a link. This shows a fairly decent timetable.

http://www.kilbridegroup.com/tavistock/Jacobs-Phase-2-Report.pdf

West Devon district Council also gave the go ahead at a meeting on 20th April this year.

The timescale was put back slightly with the economic crisis but it now looks like after all the Legal stuff....of which I am not certain, so any help appreciated here!....construction will start in 2013 and the line open in 2014

http://www.kilbridegroup.com/tavistock/TVA-CJH-GEN-Position Statement-October 2010.pdf

http://www.westdevon.gov.uk/upload/public/attachments/1069/Tavistock to Plymouth corridor.pdf

 

[ACE1888]

Many thanks for the Info Trainbuff, much appreciated!

 

[trickyvegas]

I'm not aware of the Monyash Trail? I presume you mean the Monsal Trail?

You are right, it's a mistake I seem to keep making even though the places are quite some distance apart.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On what was the Warrington to Stockport railway line from the industrial area in Partington, past the refuse sorting site off Sinderland Road, through to the Deansgate Junction/ Skelton Junction, there used to be three tanker trains a week about 12 years ago and on that freight service ceasing, the line was "mothballed" but it was stated that the track would remain in situ for many years to come.

I have just been informed that the track is no longer on that trackbed. Has anyone any news on this matter?

 

[ACE1888]

Any one got an update on the proposed 'Bridport Trailway' project (Maiden Newton-Bridport branch closed 1975), I think Sustrans were involved...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Any one got an update on the proposed 'Bridport Trailway' project (Maiden Newton-Bridport branch closed 1975), I think Sustrans were involved...

Sorry that it has taken me so long to come back to you but research does take time....contacts have contacts etc.:roll:

Sustrans supports the trailway because it is hoped to become an integral part of the National Cycle Network.

The latest that I can report was that Peter Henshaw (the route negotiator for Sustrans) said that they had widened and resurfaced the section of the path from Maiden Newton railway station. The project has to be seen as a long-term project that could only be opened, section by section, when agreement had been reached with each landowner along the path line. Dorset Wildlife Trust who are one of the key landownwers had agreed to allow the trailway through Powerstock Common.

Much of the old railway route is already open.....their aim is to open the whole length of the route to wheelchair users, cyclists, walkers and families in general. Local fundraising had raised more than £80,000 in private donations. There were various Autumn events in 2010 to further the fundraising.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The "Longdendale Trail" (six mile section of former track between Hadfield (Derbyshire) and Woodhead Tunnel on the Manchester - Sheffield Victoria line) was last used by railway traffic in mid 1981 and the track was lifted approximately five years later in 1986. The ballast was then skimmed off and then re-used in strengthening Woodhead Dam wall. In May 1992, the former trackbed was re-opened as the "Longdendale Trail" and is used by walkers, cyclists and horse-riders. National Grid are currently putting new 400 kV power cables in the post-war (former double-track) Woodhead Tunnel, which effectively rules out the chances of the railway line ever re-opening anytime soon(!)

 

[ACE1888]

Sorry that it has taken me so long to come back to you but research does take time....contacts have contacts etc.:roll:

Sustrans supports the trailway because it is hoped to become an integral part of the National Cycle Network.

The latest that I can report was that Peter Henshaw (the route negotiator for Sustrans) said that they had widened and resurfaced the section of the path from Maiden Newton railway station. The project has to be seen as a long-term project that could only be opened, section by section, when agreement had been reached with each landowner along the path line. Dorset Wildlife Trust who are one of the key landownwers had agreed to allow the trailway through Powerstock Common.

Much of the old railway route is already open.....their aim is to open the whole length of the route to wheelchair users, cyclists, walkers and families in general. Local fundraising had raised more than £80,000 in private donations. There were various Autumn events in 2010 to further the fundraising.

When we walked it last year, apart from about a mile of it, it was a thoroughly enjoyable 2 day jaunt, some sections are basically overgrown with brambles, bar small walkway(about 2 feet wide) but most are still accessable, with farm and land owners using the former trackbed as access roads, would thoroughly recommend anyone attempting this walk, the section between Loders and through to almost Toller is beautiful to watch the 'world go by in the sun', between Toller and Maiden Newton is more of a challenge, a few small diversions for saturated trackbed and damaged drainage with overgrown cuttings in a few small places, but the final approach through a long cutting to join the first 'proper' walking section into Maiden Newton was great, very atmospheric to say the least! Hopefully when the Trailway is built and the whole line walkable proper it will be of great benefit to the whole of West Dorset. I certainly hope it succeeds

 

[boing_uk]

National Grid are currently putting new 400 kV power cables in the post-war (former double-track) Woodhead Tunnel, which effectively rules out the chances of the railway line ever re-opening anytime soon(!)

Not really, but it does make any re-opening project that much more expensive for the diversions and rehabilitation of the old tunnels for use by the grid. Of course, that is probably National Grid's reasoning for putting the cables in to the newer tunnel in the first place - so that they dont have to spend the money on the old tunnels.