South Wales 'Metro' updates

[CapitalStar378]

The 756s have been running on electric up to pontypridd during the day recently. Seems they're getting the testing done to introduce later this year.

It's driver training ahead of their introduction (albeit temporary) on the Aberdare, Merthyr and Treherbert lines.

 

[DaiBee]

So these are going to run temporarily and then be replaced by 398s? This sounds like a very bad PR move

 

[CardiffKid]

So these are going to run temporarily and then be replaced by 398s? This sounds like a very bad PR move

Agreed, but this has been discussed over and over again so let’s not go there again

 

[Krokodil]

So these are going to run temporarily and then be replaced by 398s? This sounds like a very bad PR move

Needs must, the 150s are on their way out.

 

[Bob Price]

And the Eisteddfod will need more capacity.

 

[athro]

The 756s have been running on electric up to pontypridd during the day recently. Seems they're getting the testing done to introduce later this year.

Report and short video

First electric train completes test run on Core Valleys Line

History was made this month as the very first electric train completed a test run north of Cardiff to Pontypridd during daylight hours. On 3 April, a small Transport for Wales (TfW) crew successfully completed a test journey from Canton Depot via the City line up to Radyr and Pontypridd using...

nation.cymru

 

[Pat Figg]

So these are going to run temporarily and then be replaced by 398s? This sounds like a very bad PR move

Is it possible that after the introduction of the 398s they could continue using 756s for some journeys on the Treherbert, Aberdare & Merthyr lines? I was mainly thinking of late night journeys, in particular on weekends and matchdays, when some fear the lack of toilets is likely to become a major issue. I doubt they'd have enough 756s available to cover that but did wonder if it was at all possible.

 

[Bob Price]

Doubtful, this will be the domain of the 398's, the 756's will be for Rhymney and VOG services. There is no issue with toilets at any other big sports venue served by Metro type services, I can't see why everyone thinks it will be in Wales. Manchester, Sheffield, Liverpool, Edinburgh etc all have trams or Metro services for football events and no one seems to have a ln issue.

 

[56xx]

Doubtful, this will be the domain of the 398's, the 756's will be for Rhymney and VOG services.

I can't see how 24 756s are going to get their batteries charged daily solely on the electrified Rhymney sections of line in order to run on the non electrified VOG.

Some running on the TAM lines must surely be needed.

 

[John R]

I can't see how 24 756s are going to get their batteries charged daily solely on the electrified Rhymney sections of line in order to run on the non electrified VOG.

Some running on the TAM lines must surely be needed.

Alternatively, they will use the diesels that are provided on the class for operation well away from the wires.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Apr 2024 ==

Is it possible that after the introduction of the 398s they could continue using 756s for some journeys on the Treherbert, Aberdare & Merthyr lines? I was mainly thinking of late night journeys, in particular on weekends and matchdays, when some fear the lack of toilets is likely to become a major issue. I doubt they'd have enough 756s available to cover that but did wonder if it was at all possible.

Given the 756s are not intended to provide services on the TAM lines, it would be somewhat odd if there was spare capacity in the fleet to provide additional capacity on those lines at peak times such as matchdays. The fleet will be working flat out providing all available capacity on its usual haunts.

 

[56xx]

Alternatively, they will use the diesels that are provided on the class for operation well away from the wires.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Apr 2024 ==


Given the 756s are not intended to provide services on the TAM lines, it would be somewhat odd if there was spare capacity in the fleet to provide additional capacity on those lines at peak times such as matchdays. The fleet will be working flat out providing all available capacity on its usual haunts.

Even so it seems a backward step for electric units to spend a proportionally high time on dirty diesel when all that electricity is available on the TAM lines.

 

[John R]

Even so it seems a backward step for electric units to spend a proportionally high time on dirty diesel when all that electricity is available on the TAM lines.

But they are building enough trams to provide the full service on the TAM lines. The answer is to electrify more of the network, but until funds are available for this, they will be limited to what is available. The units will have a lifespan of 30 to 40 years and I am sure during that period their mix of energy usage will change in favour of electric.

 

[louis97]

Even so it seems a backward step for electric units to spend a proportionally high time on dirty diesel when all that electricity is available on the TAM lines.

Except they are not wholly electric units, they are tri-mode and they will be doing exactly what they were purchased to do. This fleet is a step forward in only using diesel where it is actually necessary and not because one or more sections of route isn't electrified. As has already been mentioned, the diesel use can be reduced as more of the network is electrified in the future.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Except they are not wholly electric units, they are tri-mode and they will be doing exactly what they were purchased to do. This fleet is a step forward in only using diesel where it is actually necessary and not because one or more sections of route isn't electrified. As has already been mentioned, the diesel use can be reduced as more of the network is electrified in the future.

Exactly this. I would also assume that electrifying the VoG line is a long way down the road. Surely the priorities would be the main line between Cardiff and Swansea followed by the the Ebbw Valley line. Only after those would the VoG / Maesteg lines come into play.

 

[Envoy]

I see that Mark Barry has a headline in Wales On Line. He is quite right to be banging on about the fact that the City & Coryton Lines are only going to be 1 train every 30 minutes.

I note that the cost of operation has been mentioned. I understand the Manchester Metro has drivers on half the pay of those on the south Wales Metro and no conductors either. (The TfW conductors are earning £47,035 per year).

 

[John R]

Not only will the trams be the only ones with both a driver and a guard, but the involvement of the guard in door operation will mean longer journey times, as dwell times will be increased as opposed to the originally envisaged DOO.

 

[Dai Corner]

I see that Mark Barry has a headline in Wales On Line. He is quite right to be banging on about the fact that the City & Coryton Lines are only going to be 1 train every 30 minutes.

I note that the cost of operation has been mentioned. I understand the Manchester Metro has drivers on half the pay of those on the south Wales Metro and no conductors either. (The TfW conductors are earning £47,035 per year).

The man who conceived the idea of the South Wales Metro rail project believes it needs to do more for Cardiff. Professor Mark Barry said the £1bn scheme would not result in any additional services at more than half of the capital's stations.

While it will bring a significant improvement in rail services across the network, this represents a "raw deal" for Cardiff, which he said is not really getting a Metro.

The Rhymney, Aberdare, Merthyr and Treherbert lines into Cardiff are being electrified and the Coryton and City lines in Cardiff also being upgraded. However, in the latest plans the Coryton Line and City Line will have no improvement on the current offer of just two services an hour

The Welsh Government undertook to retain heavy rail operating principles, pay scales and guards on the CVL from the outset. It may well have been more beneficial to spend the money on upgrading the City and Coryton lines for higher frequencies. The advantage of rail over bus or active travel might be less over the shorter distances though.


Link below. The author of the article is Sion, Mark's brother.

No new services at over half Cardiff's stations in £1bn Metro

"Cardiff is not really getting a Metro," says the scheme's architect Mark Barry

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[CardiffKid]

I have an allergy to Wales*nline so avoid clicking on their articles/visiting that site unless absolutely necessary.

Is there any actual news in that piece? The 2tph frequency has been known since 2018.

 

[anthony263]

I agree with some of his points.

If the jct at Cardiff West then I'd say run all the Aberdare and Merrthyr services in clockwise and anticlockwise loops around the Cityline and Cathays and send all 4tph from Treherbert to Cardiff Bay.

Sort a loop on the Coryton branch and run a 4tph to Penarth. Replacing the 2tph Caerphilly to Penarth service.

Queen Street to central get 8tph as does Queen Street to Pontypridd also stays at 8tph.

This way both Cityline and Coryton lines get 4tph.

 

[Dai Corner]

I have an allergy to Wales*nline so avoid clicking on their articles/visiting that site unless absolutely necessary.

Is there any actual news in that piece? The 2tph frequency has been known since 2018.

No there isn't. I'd have quoted from it but the forum software won't let me.

By the way, if you're a member of Cardiff or Newport library services you can read the Western Mail and the Echo online for free without the annoying ads. Facsimiles of the paper newspapers.

 

[S-Bahn]

I see that Mark Barry has a headline in Wales On Line. He is quite right to be banging on about the fact that the City & Coryton Lines are only going to be 1 train every 30 minutes.

I note that the cost of operation has been mentioned. I understand the Manchester Metro has drivers on half the pay of those on the south Wales Metro and no conductors either. (The TfW conductors are earning £47,035 per year).

I'm not going to begrudge the conductors earning £47k a year for a rotating shift pattern and a responsibility for customer safety and helping reduce anti-social behaviour. Besides if the TFW drivers and conductors were all laid off and re-hired on lower wages/ended up on Universal Credit, then they would have less money to spend on goods and services in the wider encomomy.

I agree that the City and Coryton lines should have a higher service frequency.

 

[AdamWW]

I agree that the City and Coryton lines should have a higher service frequency.

At least they're planned to have a more frequent evening service, though that will be more useful when the evening service operates on 6 rather than 3 days a week.

Then again I can see this as an obvious target for cut-backs so we'll see how long it lasts.

 

[Envoy]

I have an allergy to Wales*nline so avoid clicking on their articles/visiting that site unless absolutely necessary.

Is there any actual news in that piece? The 2tph frequency has been known since 2018.

You may well have an aversion to WoL but it has a very high percentage readership in Wales.

Yes, people on this forum are well aware of the 2 trains per hour on the City & Coryton Lines but it was good to see this brought to wider attention by WoL.

 

[CapitalStar378]

You may well have an aversion to WoL but it has a very high percentage readership in Wales.

Yes, people on this forum are well aware of the 2 trains per hour on the City & Coryton Lines but it was good to see this brought to wider attention by WoL.

Absolutely, the cost for a loop at Rhiwbina can't be astronomical, although I am aware that there's already a project overspend. I wonder if this is pencilled in for a future date.

It's quite a jump from a single 153 to put 3 car 756s on the Corytons, when 2 tph is not going to attract a load of previous car/bus users.

 

[5021]

The Welsh Government undertook to retain heavy rail operating principles, pay scales and guards on the CVL from the outset. It may well have been more beneficial to spend the money on upgrading the City and Coryton lines for higher frequencies. The advantage of rail over bus or active travel might be less over the shorter distances though.


Link below. The author of the article is Sion, Mark's brother.

No new services at over half Cardiff's stations in £1bn Metro

"Cardiff is not really getting a Metro," says the scheme's architect Mark Barry

www.walesonline.co.uk

It describes the Class 756 in both the lead photo caption and text as a tram-train????? Oh dear

 

[John R]

Absolutely, the cost for a loop at Rhiwbina can't be astronomical, although I am aware that there's already a project overspend. I wonder if this is pencilled in for a future date.

It's quite a jump from a single 153 to put 3 car 756s on the Corytons, when 2 tph is not going to attract a load of previous car/bus users.

I recall that a loop was descoped from the original plan some time ago when costs started increasing. Don't underestimate the cost of it though - two switches, some additional track, and changes to the signalling. I also remember some comment that the supply for the overhead wires has been positioned in such a way that it would need moving, which if so would be unfortunate as future proofing would presumably have added very little cost.

 

[AdamWW]

I also remember some comment that the supply for the overhead wires has been positioned in such a way that it would need moving,

It does look that way.

Though the OLE supports which are going in on the side the loop would have to be do seem to be set well back from the track.

 

[Krokodil]

You may well have an aversion to WoL but it has a very high percentage readership in Wales.

Mostly because the alternatives aren't much better. Most local news sites across the UK are so riddled with ads that they're almost unreadable. Reach is the worst offender.

 

[Signal_Box]

The Welsh Government undertook to retain heavy rail operating principles, pay scales and guards on the CVL from the outset. It may well have been more beneficial to spend the money on upgrading the City and Coryton lines for higher frequencies. The advantage of rail over bus or active travel might be less over the shorter distances though.


Link below. The author of the article is Sion, Mark's brother.

No new services at over half Cardiff's stations in £1bn Metro

"Cardiff is not really getting a Metro," says the scheme's architect Mark Barry

www.walesonline.co.uk

They undertook to retain heavy rail principals on the heavy rail aspects of CVL aka Rhymney and Coryton. TAM falls outside this commitment expect to see DOO on the TAM in time.

 

[John R]

They undertook to retain heavy rail principals on the heavy rail aspects of CVL aka Rhymney and Coryton. TAM falls outside this commitment expect to see DOO on the TAM in time.

Surely if the intention is to move to DOO you do it before you double the headcount to cover the doubling of frequency, and before you set the precedent of the guards being involved in the doors process.