Prague Airport Bus 119 Trolleybus Conversion

[Whisky Papa]

I reported elsewhere that the wiring for the forthcoming conversion of bus 119 from Prague Airport to Nádraží Veleslavín on Metro line A appeared to be complete in November. I've been watching for some trial operation of the new route 59, similar to the conversion of bus 140 last year, where shadow operation of trolleybus 58 took place over many months, first only at weekends then midweek with a couple of trolleybuses, but with no reduction in the bus service.

So far nothing, until tomorrow. Apparently, the whole timetable will switch from bus 119 to trolleybus 59 after about 1440 until the finish of service. Even more oddly, that seems to be it, it's back to buses on Thursday.

It seems to be a very drastic way of conducting a trial, and if anyone on here happens to be flying in or out of Prague tomorrow, something to look out for!

​

 

[185]

Fascinating. And just like our railways, the 'x' is a request stop

 

[Whisky Papa]

Fascinating. And just like our railways, the 'x' is a request stop

The automated 'příští zastávka je na znamení' announcement to remind passengers of this fact soon becomes very wearing!

 

[30907]

As far as I can see the 59 replaces the 119 permanently but for some reason the timetable isn't uploaded.

 

[Whisky Papa]

As far as I can see the 59 replaces the 119 permanently but for some reason the timetable isn't uploaded.

That would be logical, but there is no end date on the 'normal' 119 timetable starting from the 19th Feb (which I didn't attach). It certainly could be the case though.

 

[30907]

That would be logical, but there is no end date on the 'normal' 119 timetable starting from the 19th Feb (which I didn't attach). It certainly could

Zastávkové jízdní řády | Pražská integrovaná doprava

pid.cz

Says "line 119 is not in operation from 7 March"

 

[Segedunum]

This link confirms it in more detail:

Permanent change: Launch of the trolleybus line to the airport​

Last updated: 3/6/2024 11:47 AM |

State	In progress
Permanently since	3/6/2024 2:41 PM
Affected lines	119 59
Event type	Canceling a line, Establishing a line

MEASURES​

59

• A new PID trolleybus line is being introduced on the route Nádraží Veleslavín – Divoká Šárka – Terminal 3 – Airport
• All operating parameters are the same as line 119, which has been in operation until now

119

• The line is canceled and fully replaced by the new line 59

 

[Whisky Papa]

Zastávkové jízdní řády | Pražská integrovaná doprava

pid.cz

Says "line 119 is not in operation from 7 March"

Thanks, I'd only been looking at the timetables section on DPP's own website (the operator) rather than PID's. I thought that it was unusual for them not to be updated ready for the change - it almost made me wonder if they were hedging their bets in case of any problem on the Wednesday evening operation.

Right, just need to get there and try them out now !

.

 

[dutchflyer]

NOte: In Praha on DPP-and in fact on all CZ (and SK/PL/HU etc) CITY transit all stops are compulsory-unless it clearly shows its on request. Dates from many moons ago.
Praha is the 13th city in CZ to have trolleybuses.

 

[Whisky Papa]

There is a Wikipedia article listing the forthcoming trolleybus conversions in Prague, if anybody wishes to Google it. As the current bus network is mostly a mix of short but busy feeder routes and often quite long orbital routes, I suspected it would be mostly the former that would be converted, creating a patchwork of separate operations, unlike most city systems. With battery power available, there is no need to be directly wired to the garages.

Well, I guessed some of the routes correctly, but I wrong in that the 107 isn't included, as it is a mega-frequent, relatively short feeder route that climbs steeply up to Suchdol, nor some of the feeder routes from the Bohnice estate to the Kobylisy metro station. To my surprise, both the 112 from Nádraží Holešovice out to the zoo at Troja and the lengthy (22km) 201 from the same starting point eastwards to Černý Most metro terminus were, the latter becoming the 61.

I was right with the 176 from Karlovo náměstí up the hill to Stadion Strahov, which will become the 53, its starting point being the only location served in what might be regarded as the city centre. I believe it was the last trolleybus route to close from their original system in the early 1970s. The 56 (ex 191) will serve the airport in addition to the recently introduced 59, but is a much longer route at 19.5km. The longest route listed is the 57 at 26km, replacing the 136 on a long cross-suburban slog round the eastern side of the city.

Also listed for conversion is the current 375 bus which runs NE beyond the city boundary to Brandýs nad Labem-Stará Boleslav, again a journey in excess of 20km.

The full list of existing routes for conversion is 112 131 134 136 137 142 150 174 176 184 191 201 225 375.

​

 

[SLTRegular]

Rode the new route yesterday shame they stop so far away from the lift down to the metro.

 

[Belperpete]

Travelled from the airport today. Disappointed to find that although trolleys are running, the 59 I was on was one of the old articulated diesel buses.

The wiring doesn't go to the airport terminals, so presumably the trolleys are on battery power once they get in the airport. There is a large bus park on the outskirts of the airport that is wired, and had several trolleys parked there.

I also noted that on part of the dual carriageway into town, both lanes of the opposite carriageway appeared to be wired.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Travelled from the airport today. Disappointed to find that although trolleys are running, the 59 I was on was one of the old articulated diesel buses.

The wiring doesn't go to the airport terminals, so presumably the trolleys are on battery power once they get in the airport. There is a large bus park on the outskirts of the airport that is wired, and had several trolleys parked there.

I also noted that on part of the dual carriageway into town, both lanes of the opposite carriageway appeared to be wired.

As I remember it, there are historic part of central Prague where they don't put wires up, and the trolleybuses manage on batteries for these stretches.

 

[Whisky Papa]

As I remember it, there are historic part of central Prague where they don't put wires up, and the trolleybuses manage on batteries for these stretches.

That could have been the case with the original trolleybuses that ceased operation in the early 1970s, but the two routes recently introduced are not central. Of the planned conversions listed in #10, only the 53 (replacing the current 176 bus) will run in what might be considered the central area (although not an especially picturesque bit of it), so it will be interesting to see if those streets will be wired when conversion takes place. As many of them are shared with trams, it would certainly be simpler not to wire them.

 

[Mag_seven]

I thought I was seeing things when I saw trolleybus wires near Prague airport the other week! However they didn't seem to extend into the airport complex?

 

[Whisky Papa]

I thought I was seeing things when I saw trolleybus wires near Prague airport the other week! However they didn't seem to extend into the airport complex?

Correct. The Wikipedia article I mentioned in #10 suggests both the two new routes have only 50% of route mileage wired, but subsequent ones are planned to be somewhat higher. I'm not sure if the wired bus parking area mentioned by @Belperpete in #12 is the existing layover spot behind Terminal 2, although I assume so. Unfortunately it was already dark when I passed it on arrival on my last trip, and I wasn't even aware I should have been looking for wires at the time.

 

[AlbertBeale]

That could have been the case with the original trolleybuses that ceased operation in the early 1970s, but the two routes recently introduced are not central. Of the planned conversions listed in #10, only the 53 (replacing the current 176 bus) will run in what might be considered the central area (although not an especially picturesque bit of it), so it will be interesting to see if those streets will be wired when conversion takes place. As many of them are shared with trams, it would certainly be simpler not to wire them.

So did none of the trolleybus routes which started 6 or 7 years ago run anywhere in the centre?

Or could it be that some tram routes in the centre have gaps in the wires in the historic areas, and that's that's getting me confused?

 

[Belperpete]

So did none of the trolleybus routes which started 6 or 7 years ago run anywhere in the centre?

Or could it be that some tram routes in the centre have gaps in the wires in the historic areas, and that's that's getting me confused?

As far as I am aware, there was only one short route put in 7 years ago: the experimental system put in to prove the concept of hybrid battery/trolley buses would work on Prague's hills, following problems encountered with the battery buses on hilly routes. It was run with a selection of experimental, borrowed and historical trolleybuses. It was out in Palmovka, nowhere near the centre. Its remains have been incorporated into the new line 58, opened this year.

Can't think of any tram lines in the city centre that have gaps in their wiring. The old T3s that formed the backbone of the tram fleet needed continuous wiring, so having put it up throughout the city centre, why would they take it down?

 

[AlbertBeale]

As far as I am aware, there was only one short route put in 7 years ago: the experimental system put in to prove the concept of hybrid battery/trolley buses would work on Prague's hills, following problems encountered with the battery buses on hilly routes. It was run with a selection of experimental, borrowed and historical trolleybuses. It was out in Palmovka, nowhere near the centre. Its remains have been incorporated into the new line 58, opened this year.

Can't think of any tram lines in the city centre that have gaps in their wiring. The old T3s that formed the backbone of the tram fleet needed continuous wiring, so having put it up throughout the city centre, why would they take it down?

Thanks for the info. Could be I'm misremembering - it's a few years since I was there!

 

[The exile]

As I remember it, there are historic part of central Prague where they don't put wires up, and the trolleybuses manage on batteries for these stretches.

I believe the new ( being reinstated) extension along Wilsonova may be intended to be wire free (but may be getting my own wires crossed)

 

[Whisky Papa]

I believe the new ( being reinstated) extension along Wilsonova may be intended to be wire free (but may be getting my own wires crossed)

Which route do you understand is being reinstated along Wilsonova? It isn't currently served by any buses.

I finally managed to catch up with the new 59 route last week - very impressive, even if personally I think the DPP red and white livery is better than the PID grey and red they have used for the new vehicles.

Referring back to points raised in previous posts:

#11 @SLTRegular - sorry, can't help with the lift to the metro, but for anybody transferring between the 59 trolleybus and the 20 or 26 trams, a very handy same platform interchange is available at Divoká Šárka.

#12 @Belperpete - I didn't see any diesel operation on the 59 during my two journeys, or on the short visit I later made to Nádraží Veleslavín to photograph the vehicles unencumbered by my backpack. However, I did see a diesel bus on the 58 when passing through Palmovka early one evening.

I also now understand your comment about the dual wiring on the dual carriageway. Coming from the airport, the wiring starts at the Terminál 3 stop, but then along the length of K Letišti there is indeed duplicate wiring over both carriageways until just short of the junction with Fajtlova (the road which runs off to the little shopping mall). The 'spare' pairs of wires appear to come to a dead stop at either end rather than being linked to the 'running' wires. Given the short distance and the fact that they already cover the airport portion of the journey on battery power, this seems a little odd.

 

[The exile]

Which route do you understand is being reinstated along Wilsonova? It isn't currently served by any buses.

Tram, rather than trolley-bus, so certainly getting my wires crossed.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Tram, rather than trolley-bus, so certainly getting my wires crossed.

Thanks.

 

[Belperpete]

I believe the new ( being reinstated) extension along Wilsonova may be intended to be wire free (but may be getting my own wires crossed)

Contract has recently been let for the reinstated line through Wenseslas Square:

trams-set-to-return-to-prague-s-wenceslas-square-as-dpp-signs-contract

The long-awaited return of trams to the central Prague square has taken a step closer to becoming a reality with the signing of a new contract.​

It looks like this line is going to have wires, as it will form a diversionary route. I would be surprised if the re-instated route along Wilsonova wasn't also going to have wires, as it could likewise be a diversionary route. Certainly the short length that they have already built to the station has wires.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2024 ==

#12 @Belperpete -
I also now understand your comment about the dual wiring on the dual carriageway. Coming from the airport, the wiring starts at the Terminál 3 stop, but then along the length of K Letišti there is indeed duplicate wiring over both carriageways until just short of the junction with Fajtlova (the road which runs off to the little shopping mall). The 'spare' pairs of wires appear to come to a dead stop at either end rather than being linked to the 'running' wires. Given the short distance and the fact that they already cover the airport portion of the journey on battery power, this seems a little odd.

As the trolleybus can raise and lower its pantograph while on the move, presumably there is no need to link the two pairs of wires. If it has to swap lanes, just lower the pan, change lane, then raise again.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Contract has recently been let for the reinstated line through Wenseslas Square:

trams-set-to-return-to-prague-s-wenceslas-square-as-dpp-signs-contract

It looks like this line is going to have wires, as it will form a diversionary route. I would be surprised if the re-instated route along Wilsonova wasn't also going to have wires, as it could likewise be a diversionary route. Certainly the short length that they have already built to the station has wires.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2024 ==


As the trolleybus can raise and lower its pantograph while on the move, presumably there is no need to link the two pairs of wires. If it has to swap lanes, just lower the pan, change lane, then raise again.

Aren't the trolley pick-ups different from pantographs? I thought that systems for trolleys to switch to batteries and then revert to the wires required the automated reconnection to the wires to happen only at specific places where the design allowed for this? So, unlike a pantograph which can in principle be dropped and raised at will.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Yes, the overhead lines have angled covers that guide the trolley poles up towards the wires. Watch from 2:20. (This is a static charging point, but the start of the wired section has the same covers.)

 

[Whisky Papa]

Aren't the trolley pick-ups different from pantographs? I thought that systems for trolleys to switch to batteries and then revert to the wires required the automated reconnection to the wires to happen only at specific places where the design allowed for this? So, unlike a pantograph which can in principle be dropped and raised at will.

Yes, they are individual sprung booms with a traditional contact wheel rather than a pantograph. At the scheduled changeover points from battery to overhead, there are two large guide plates over each line to centre the boom on the wires - the whole set-up looks like an inverted 'W' in cross section. Incidentally, this is done with the vehicle stationary at a stop, it can't be done on the move. See #26 above, which has been loaded while I've been typing - thanks @Gag Halfrunt.

At any location without this feature, I could only assume the booms would have to be guided to the wires manually.

 

[Cloud Strife]

To my surprise, both the 112 from Nádraží Holešovice out to the zoo at Troja

This is a surprise, although given the loadings on that route, I'm really surprised that they simply didn't build a metro station on the Troja side of the river and then run battery-powered shuttles to and from the zoo.

Having said that, the entire bus station at Nádraží Holešovice is a complete disgrace.