Do I have any chance disputing this charge/seeking a refund?

[a1k]

Hi,
I bought an Advance Single ticket to travel to St. Pancras. I was running late arrived to the platform only two minutes before my train was departing and was told I was not allowed to board the train as two minutes before, still unsure why - It was a very busy train?. I was literally 6 feet away from the train so I really just didn't understand why I wasn't allowed on. The worker on the platform told me the next train was in 20 minutes and assured me that my ticket would be fine getting on this next train. I got on the next train and when the ticket inspector came he asked the reason why I didn't catch my specified train, to which I replied with what happened. He then proceeded to charge me for a full price ticket (£50.60), claiming normally he would let it slide but apparently there was a revenue officer or someone at St. Pancras (which was a complete lie) who would immediately charge me £170, no questions asked. Reluctantly, I paid, and he told me you can appeal it if you think the original train left early or if you have another reason as to why you didn't get on.

Anyways, my question is, do I have any grounds to seek for a refund here, I was not allowed on the train even though I was there 2 minutes before scheduled departure and was also told by the first worker my original ticket would be fine.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Wolfie]

Hi,
I bought an Advance Single ticket to travel to St. Pancras. I was running late arrived to the platform only two minutes before my train was departing and was told I was not allowed to board the train as two minutes before, still unsure why - It was a very busy train?. I was literally 6 feet away from the train so I really just didn't understand why I wasn't allowed on. The worker on the platform told me the next train was in 20 minutes and assured me that my ticket would be fine getting on this next train. I got on the next train and when the ticket inspector came he asked the reason why I didn't catch my specified train, to which I replied with what happened. He then proceeded to charge me for a full price ticket (£50.60), claiming normally he would let it slide but apparently there was a revenue officer or someone at St. Pancras (which was a complete lie) who would immediately charge me £170, no questions asked. Reluctantly, I paid, and he told me you can appeal it if you think the original train left early or if you have another reason as to why you didn't get on.

Anyways, my question is, do I have any grounds to seek for a refund here, I was not allowed on the train even though I was there 2 minutes before scheduled departure and was also told by the first worker my original ticket would be fine.

Thanks in advance.

Barriers being closed two minutes prior to departure at the service departure station is not that uncommon. Avanti do that at Euston for example.

 

[a1k]

Barriers being closed two minutes prior to departure at the service departure station is not that uncommon. Avanti do that at Euston for example.

Yeah I get that to be fair at the bigger stations, but this was Nottingham - was past the barriers and I was on the platform. There were a few workers there who basically stopped me.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yeah I get that to be fair at the bigger stations, but this was Nottingham - was past the barriers and I was on the platform. There were a few workers there who basically stopped me.

Which train was this? We can check if it did indeed depart early.

There is no formal right of appeal to being sold a new ticket, but you can complain to EMR’s customer relations if you feel it is unjust.

 

[Krokodil]

claiming normally he would let it slide but apparently there was a revenue officer or someone at St. Pancras (which was a complete lie) who would immediately charge me £170, no questions asked.

Didn't we have a thread recently with a similar thing told? I'm pretty sure that it involved St Pancras too.

 

[Haywain]

Yeah I get that to be fair at the bigger stations, but this was Nottingham - was past the barriers and I was on the platform. There were a few workers there who basically stopped me.

You were not allowed to board because the despatch process had commenced. I'm afraid that's normal procedure. Your running late meant you were too late to be on the train.

 

[Snow1964]

You were not allowed to board because the despatch process had commenced. I'm afraid that's normal procedure. Your running late meant you were too late to be on the train.

Commencing the despatch process 120 seconds before the public departure time seems rather early

Reasonable for a barrier close time, but stopping boarding of those besides the train on the platform that early seems unnecessary

 

[CarrotPie]

You were not allowed to board because the despatch process had commenced. I'm afraid that's normal procedure. Your running late meant you were too late to be on the train.

Commencing the despatch process 120 seconds before the public departure time seems rather early

Reasonable for a barrier close time, but stopping boarding of those besides the train on the platform that early seems unnecessary

The current Intercity timetable says:

So we can get you there on time we run a Right Time Railway. For safety, and to make sure trains leave on time, train doors will be closed 40 seconds before the scheduled departure time. At London St Pancras International train doors will be closed two minutes before the departure time.

120 seconds > 40 seconds.

 

[Haywain]

Commencing the despatch process 120 seconds before the public departure time seems rather early

Reasonable for a barrier close time, but stopping boarding of those besides the train on the platform that early seems unnecessary

I simply stated why boarding would have been prevented. Of course, being at the station 2 minutes before departure isn't necessarily the same as being alongside the train - at Nottingham the train can be at the far end of the platform from the main entrance.

 

[AlterEgo]

If the OP tells us which train he missed we can then see if it did depart early.

 

[Watershed]

I don't think the actual departure time of the train is relevant. The exact time they were on the platform and at the doors is, though - if this was more than 40 seconds before departure, they should have been allowed to board and shouldn't have been charged anything extra.

The Train Manager was also hardly doing the OP a favour. They could (and IMHO should) have endorsed the original ticket for travel on the train the OP ended up travelling on.

If the OP was at the doors >40 seconds before departure, I would also suggest they are entitled to Delay Repay for effectively being 'denied boarding'.

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't think the actual departure time of the train is relevant. The exact time they were on the platform and at the doors is, though - if this was more than 40 seconds before departure, they should have been allowed to board and shouldn't have been charged anything extra.

The Train Manager was also hardly doing the OP a favour. They could (and IMHO should) have endorsed the original ticket for travel on the train the OP ended up travelling on.

If the OP was at the doors >40 seconds before departure, I would also suggest they are entitled to Delay Repay for effectively being 'denied boarding'.

The departure time might be helpful - if it departed a minute early it’s quite possible the OP was at the train at a reasonable time. If it departed on time, or late, it’s difficult to see how dispatch might have taken a full two minutes and would stretch the credibility of the story.

 

[43066]

Hi,
I bought an Advance Single ticket to travel to St. Pancras. I was running late arrived to the platform only two minutes before my train was departing and was told I was not allowed to board the train as two minutes before, still unsure why - It was a very busy train?. I was literally 6 feet away from the train so I really just didn't understand why I wasn't allowed on. The worker on the platform told me the next train was in 20 minutes and assured me that my ticket would be fine getting on this next train. I got on the next train and when the ticket inspector came he asked the reason why I didn't catch my specified train, to which I replied with what happened. He then proceeded to charge me for a full price ticket (£50.60), claiming normally he would let it slide but apparently there was a revenue officer or someone at St. Pancras (which was a complete lie) who would immediately charge me £170, no questions asked. Reluctantly, I paid, and he told me you can appeal it if you think the original train left early or if you have another reason as to why you didn't get on.

Anyways, my question is, do I have any grounds to seek for a refund here, I was not allowed on the train even though I was there 2 minutes before scheduled departure and was also told by the first worker my original ticket would be fine.

Thanks in advance.

It just sounds like a straightforward case of missing your train and being correctly charged extra for travelling on a later service. There are a lot of issues at Nottingham with people running for trains, and it’s exceedingly rare for dispatch of EMR IC services to be commenced less than thirty seconds or so before departure (if anything they tend to wait for runners!), so how sure are you about being there two minutes prior?

The Train Manager was also hardly doing the OP a favour. They could (and IMHO should) have endorsed the original ticket for travel on the train the OP ended up travelling on.

Why should they? They will sometimes show discretion, but there’s no obligation to do favours.

 

[lyesbkz]

One thing I've observed with the EMR Meridians is that often the Train Manager will be in the galley, so all of the other doors are locked first, and occasionally people who are running late will arrive on the platform, see the galley door still open and try to jump on there (and be told they can't). While this may not be the case here (I agree 120 seconds seems too early), it was the first thing that came to my mind.

 

[sheff1]

I simply stated why boarding would have been prevented. Of course, being at the station 2 minutes before departure isn't necessarily the same as being alongside the train - at Nottingham the train can be at the far end of the platform from the main entrance.

The OP said they were 6 ft from the train 2 mins before departure.

One thing I've observed with the EMR Meridians is that often the Train Manager will be in the galley, so all of the other doors are locked first, and occasionally people who are running late will arrive on the platform, see the galley door still open and try to jump on there (and be told they can't). While this may not be the case here (I agree 120 seconds seems too early), it was the first thing that came to my mind.

I am not sure what the galley door is but I have boarded an EMR London train through the last open door where the Train Manager was standing more than once (at Sheffield, not Nottingham).

Agree that 2 mins is too early to be denied boarding if the stated time for door closure is 40 seconds before departure.

 

[lyesbkz]

I am not sure what the galley door is but I have boarded an EMR London train through the last open door where the Train Manager was standing more than once (at Sheffield, not Nottingham).

The door to the staff kitchen area at the end of the first class carriage at the very front (or rear) of the train. It's rare I've seen anyone allowed to board through there, but it does happen on occasion.