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I've got to admit that I was aware of and happy with the change to single pricing, but wasn't aware that the annoying route York limitation had been put in. Since lockdown I've mostly been focusing on getting Lumos or going first class to avoid LNERs standard seating.
It would be good to have this death-by-a-thousand-cuts process documented in detail, over time, to make clear the effect of what has been lost/changed cumulatively.
There are certain journeys which through the various stages of this "simplification" have lost
- break-of-journey opportunities on return legs of returns
- any-permitted routing
- the off-peak/super off peak shoulder fares
- the off peak fares cap altogether
- all-day fare flexibility
All coupled with various fare increases introduced under cover, and LNER fiddling with reservations to give travellers the impression they can't travel on a certain train when in fact they can.
It would be good to have this death-by-a-thousand-cuts process documented in detail, over time, to make clear the effect of what has been lost/changed cumulatively.
All coupled with various fare increases introduced under cover, and LNER fiddling with reservations to give travellers the impression they can't travel on a certain train when in fact they can.
All coupled with various fare increases introduced under cover, and LNER fiddling with reservations to give travellers the impression they can't travel on a certain train when in fact they can.
Honestly I think that single change, smuggled in without consultation under cover of Covid, is the biggest cause of all problems. You can't go about pretending that people can't get half the trains with their flexible ticket, and then say that nobody is using the flexible tickets. The single fare pricing basically made things simpler for most passengers, but every single other change has seemed like a shifty way to advance an agenda that makes no sense. They really should have cleared out the dreadful Virgin management when they got rid of Stagecoach as an owning group.
Do TOCs with seat reservations have to offer them for free (excluding Sleeper berth supplements)? At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to copy SNCF and Renfe and insisted on charging extra for seat reservations for Peterborough – London or Darlington – Newcastle if they could.
Do TOCs with seat reservations have to offer them for free (excluding Sleeper berth supplements)? At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to copy SNCF and Renfe and insisted on charging extra for seat reservations for Peterborough – London or Darlington – Newcastle if they could.
I think it would make sense to charge for seat reservations and remove them from the equation for advances, or at the very least charge for the ability to select your own seat. Not only is that what their beloved airline industry does anyway, but it's actually more important for the rail industry, since short distance passengers picking and choosing seats are one of the key things removing capacity for people who want to go all the way on these trains. I'd also support a strict one-reservation-per-ticket policy, so people aren't using open tickets to book multiple trains. Of course if sensible revenue-neutral fares reform was the plan these would be the first things they were looking at, but instead they went nuclear.
I think it would make sense to charge for seat reservations and remove them from the equation for advances, or at the very least charge for the ability to select your own seat.
I'm suggesting that a potential solution for the mix of imagined and self-created capacity problems that LNER are suffering would be to charge a premium for selecting your own seat, particularly for shorter journeys where people are less likely to actually care. That would (theoretically) allow them to maximise usage of seats without going overboard blaming the wicked open-ticket-holders. In terms of charging to make seat reservations full stop, I wouldn't be particularly unhappy with that as an outcome but appreciate that it would be an extremely unpopular move with others.
Quite honestly, I see it as a good solution to an industry-wide problem of reserved seats not being used and walk up tickets taking it away from advance capacity just because someone had to pick train X when booking (and ended up with a seat reservation).
It works well in most of continental Europe as far as I'm aware, and a small nominal fee of, say, £1 would deter people from needlessly booking seats or convince them to cancel existing seats or change reservations to a different service etc.
The main thing is that the fee would have to be high enough to not be holy consumed by card transaction fees. It would also make standalone reservation tools more achievable for third party retailers as they wouldn't have to risk someone making ridiculous amounts of reservations and costing them money through whichever supplier(s) they use to connect to the reservations system.
That being said I wouldn't want to pay the fee myself, so...
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That one isn't really possible unless LNER were to just implement that on their own site. They couldn't really enforce that for third party retailers (for the few that do seat selection).
They'd be happy for you to fly as trains between Scotland and London at the busiest times are very full. There is nowhere near sufficient capacity to cater for all the people who would use the train for this journey, if prices were reasonable.
And therefore a making it too confusing is a valid way out. Just make it so confusing, you can't be arsed and just travel a different way.
Like the people on my LNER train a few weeks ago who had paid for weekend first before, so sat in first class on a Thursday thinking it was a standard thing. £170+ each later. They paid, because they were honest people. I think the guard would probably have been ok with them legging it back into standard. At least you know easyjet are going to stiff you £8 for a coffee.
You have to ask whether you are collected a valid economic rent from the service. Or whether you are just ripping off people who have no choice. It is still ripping off, even if the fare is just expensed by people whoose employers ask no questions. (That's not to say that economic incentives for people to travel on quieter servces are not valid)
I remember once, coming back from Edinburgh about 8 years ago. Walk up fare to Glasgow, a night in premier inn and Transpennine Express to Manchester came out at least £100 per person cheaper than an LNER train from Edinburgh. It is all about what you know, tricks and asking for the right thing.
In a way, in 1997 when I used to wander into the station (Huddersfield) and have a chat in the ticket office, before this time is this much, and after is this much. It was a simpler time. Still loads of money.
Another friend (north east based) would walk to the station and ask how much, walk to the car hire place and ask how much, add the fuel, and decide purely on money. The car hire place usually won.
And, it is kind of screwed now, but TP express between Manchester an Leeds was purely a victim of it's own success. 2tph to Liverpool, 30 mins from Hudds to Manchester. Suddenly way more people turn up and it's rammed. You could run the whole timetable with 8 car trains and the would be full.
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Interestingly I remember from school French lessons that way back when (i guess 80s or earlier) SNCF used to let you book a reservation on one train and then an insurance train as well in case you missed it (though the tickets were walk up). I forget the word for it though.
We live in such a connected world, where a change of ticket is technically just a click away. On your phone, at a booking office, or a ticket machine.
How you price a change, is another thing. But there is no technical barrier to cancelling a reservation on 1 train and moving it to another.
From an airline perspective, in 2008, I arrived in New Zealand a day late due to a technical problem on the plane. I wandered to the booking desk and said, 'Hi, can I move my flight home a day later because I arrived a day later', `what's your booking reference`, <5 seconds> `all done, here is a print out`
It's about adopting a 'can do' attitude, rather than a 'punish idiots' attitude.
Quite honestly, I see it as a good solution to an industry-wide problem of reserved seats not being used and walk up tickets taking it away from advance capacity just because someone had to pick train X when booking (and ended up with a seat reservation).
It works well in most of continental Europe as far as I'm aware, and a small nominal fee of, say, £1 would deter people from needlessly booking seats or convince them to cancel existing seats or change reservations to a different service etc.
The main thing is that the fee would have to be high enough to not be holy consumed by card transaction fees. It would also make standalone reservation tools more achievable for third party retailers as they wouldn't have to risk someone making ridiculous amounts of reservations and costing them money through whichever supplier(s) they use to connect to the reservations system.
That being said I wouldn't want to pay the fee myself, so...
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That one isn't really possible unless LNER were to just implement that on their own site. They couldn't really enforce that for third party retailers (for the few that do seat selection).
I've said this on threads before, but just making reservations request only would cut out a lot of waste. A lot of people with AP tickets aren't interested in them.
Ri’m not in favour of charging for seat reservations. Just imagine what TOCs would try to do.
Window seat - that’ll be an extra £5
Want a table - £5 extra
We’ll sell you seat reservation with no view for £1.
Then, what happens when things go wrong? If reservations aren’t displayed (let’s face it this happens regularly) who is going to refund passengers? How much is the admin to do this going to cost?
What if a connecting train is delayed such that I miss the train with my ‘premium’ seat reservation? Who’s going to sort that out. Train companies struggle to get delay repay claims right - throw in a missing seat reservation and it’ll be a nightmare.
Charges for seat reservations is a complete no go for me. A train is not a plane.
Ri’m not in favour of charging for seat reservations. Just imagine what TOCs would try to do.
Window seat - that’ll be an extra £5
Want a table - £5 extra
We’ll sell you seat reservation with no view for £1.
Then, what happens when things go wrong? If reservations aren’t displayed (let’s face it this happens regularly) who is going to refund passengers? How much is the admin to do this going to cost?
What if a connecting train is delayed such that I miss the train with my ‘premium’ seat reservation? Who’s going to sort that out. Train companies struggle to get delay repay claims right - throw in a missing seat reservation and it’ll be a nightmare.
Charges for seat reservations is a complete no go for me. A train is not a plane.
Ri’m not in favour of charging for seat reservations. Just imagine what TOCs would try to do.
Window seat - that’ll be an extra £5
Want a table - £5 extra
We’ll sell you seat reservation with no view for £1.
Then, what happens when things go wrong? If reservations aren’t displayed (let’s face it this happens regularly) who is going to refund passengers? How much is the admin to do this going to cost?
What if a connecting train is delayed such that I miss the train with my ‘premium’ seat reservation? Who’s going to sort that out. Train companies struggle to get delay repay claims right - throw in a missing seat reservation and it’ll be a nightmare.
Charges for seat reservations is a complete no go for me. A train is not a plane.
As it stands LNER are on the hook for a large refund if you don't get your assigned seat for whatever reason, and have a scheme in place to pay for that. Charging reservations (or more importantly stopping giving them out like candy even when people don't want them) should actually make all of the problems you mention easier.
A train is not a plane, and as a result seat reservations are much more complex and costly to administer, so we should move back to a system where the normal thing to do is to just walk into the train and find a seat, rather than playing an exciting guessing game of "does the orange light fit in with my journey, and will all the red lights even turn up". I don't think you need to charge to make this work, but I suspect it might help.
As it stands LNER are on the hook for a large refund if you don't get your assigned seat for whatever reason, and have a scheme in place to pay for that.
As it stands LNER are on the hook for a large refund if you don't get your assigned seat for whatever reason, and have a scheme in place to pay for that. Charging reservations (or more importantly stopping giving them out like candy even when people don't want them) should actually make all of the problems you mention easier.
Say I travel from Arlesey to Peterborough with GTR then catch a LNER train from Peterborough to York.
GTR’s train is late and I miss my connection at Peterborough on which I have a premium seat reservation. I claim delay repay from GTR as they caused the delay.
A train is not a plane, and as a result seat reservations are much more complex and costly to administer, so we should move back to a system where the normal thing to do is to just walk into the train and find a seat, rather than playing an exciting guessing game of "does the orange light fit in with my journey, and will all the red lights even turn up". I don't think you need to charge to make this work, but I suspect it might help.
If that happens, and our staff can't assist you in finding an alternative seat, our Seat Guarantee scheme lets you claim compensation. Here’s how it works:
If you had a one way ticket, we’ll compensate you 100% of the value
If you had a return ticket, we’ll compensate you 50% of the value
If you had a First Class ticket and the only seat available is in Standard, we’ll compensate you the difference between the fare you paid and the Standard equivalent
Is there some technical limitation of the existing reservations system that means you can't stop people making multiple reservations attached to the same ticket?
Is there some technical limitation of the existing reservations system that means you can't stop people making multiple reservations attached to the same ticket?
We'd always recommend reserving a seat in advance to avoid disappointment. This is free of charge and can be done at the same time you buy your ticket, or through our Customer Support and Social Media teams.
if you reserved a Standard seat but had to stand for your whole journey, because neither your booked seat nor an alternative seat was available, we will provide compensation; this will be 50% of the cost of a single ticket, or 25% if you have a return
if you have a First Class ticket and no seats are available in First Class but you were able to get a seat in Standard or had to stand in First Class, then we’ll refund the difference between the First Class ticket held and the equivalent Standard ticket; if there are no available seats in Standard, we will cover the full cost of the affected journey
if you have a Season Ticket, we’ll work this out based on its daily rate, not the cost of the journey
To claim compensation, we’ll need a copy of your ticket, reservation, and journey details.
I've said this on threads before, but just making reservations request only would cut out a lot of waste. A lot of people with AP tickets aren't interested in them.
Ri’m not in favour of charging for seat reservations. Just imagine what TOCs would try to do.
Window seat - that’ll be an extra £5
Want a table - £5 extra
We’ll sell you seat reservation with no view for £1.
Then, what happens when things go wrong? If reservations aren’t displayed (let’s face it this happens regularly) who is going to refund passengers? How much is the admin to do this going to cost?
What if a connecting train is delayed such that I miss the train with my ‘premium’ seat reservation? Who’s going to sort that out. Train companies struggle to get delay repay claims right - throw in a missing seat reservation and it’ll be a nightmare.
Charges for seat reservations is a complete no go for me. A train is not a plane.
I'm suggesting that a potential solution for the mix of imagined and self-created capacity problems that LNER are suffering would be to charge a premium for selecting your own seat, particularly for shorter journeys where people are less likely to actually care. That would (theoretically) allow them to maximise usage of seats without going overboard blaming the wicked open-ticket-holders. In terms of charging to make seat reservations full stop, I wouldn't be particularly unhappy with that as an outcome but appreciate that it would be an extremely unpopular move with others.
It wouldbe a great to increase LNER revenue. £8.99 for a airline seat with no window, £9.99 Airline seat with Window, 12.99 airline seat with extra leg room, 14.99 for table seat. Then of course theres speedy boarding if you want to get on the train more than 5 minutes before departure then luggage costs.
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