DB Class 60 for sale

[43096]

But they've already been rebuilt and they still keep breaking down! If Toton can't keep them going then who can?

That rebuild/overhaul was several years ago now, to the extent that they are now due their next overhauls.

 

[ExRes]

But they've already been rebuilt and they still keep breaking down! If Toton can't keep them going then who can?

Many of the recent DB retirees were withdrawn because of high engine hours, that makes it a simple calculation on the costs of rebuilding the engines and ancillaries against using alternative traction, interestingly the DCR 60s availability doesn't seem to have suffered by being maintained at Leicester and Loughborough by UKRL

 

[Trainman40083]

Many of the recent DB retirees were withdrawn because of high engine hours, that makes it a simple calculation on the costs of rebuilding the engines and ancillaries against using alternative traction, interestingly the DCR 60s availability doesn't seem to have suffered by being maintained at Leicester and Loughborough by UKRL

I guess if you have 66s standing doing nothing, you avoid the rebuild cost.

 

[Spaceship323]

I don't necessarily think DB got rid because their reliability was so poor they were falling off their wheels - they were withdrawn because increased maintenance costs over 66s is not a justified cost for a (arguably) dying business like DB. GBRF and DCR continue to demonstrate the locos can be workable.

OK thanks for your insight

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Mar 2024 ==

Many of the recent DB retirees were withdrawn because of high engine hours, that makes it a simple calculation on the costs of rebuilding the engines and ancillaries against using alternative traction, interestingly the DCR 60s availability doesn't seem to have suffered by being maintained at Leicester and Loughborough by UKRL

Well said, I stand corrected!

 

[D365]

Many of the recent DB retirees were withdrawn because of high engine hours, that makes it a simple calculation on the costs of rebuilding the engines and ancillaries against using alternative traction, interestingly the DCR 60s availability doesn't seem to have suffered by being maintained at Leicester and Loughborough by UKRL

Don’t forget that UKRL, in effect, ’took over’ the Loughborough site. They provide heavy engineering services and technical support for ex-Brush locomotives.

 

[ExRes]

Reported on WNXX this morning that the first three Land Recovery 60s have been shunted from Toton Depot Sidings to the yard, 032, 048 & 093 are the first of the twelve locos being prepped for road transport to an, as yet, unknown destination, a reminder of the twelve involved

012, 032, 036, 037, 048, 052, 068, 077, 078, 084, 089 & 093

 

[19Gnasher69]

It seems that this list was issued in error and swiftly withdrawn, the 16 locos listed were

001/007/010/015/019/020/039/040/044/059/063/065/066/079/092/100

Someone at DB must have jumped the gun - is it not company policy to allow stored but viable locomotives to sit rotting in sidings for a decade or more before offering them for sale?

 

[D365]

Someone at DB must have jumped the gun - is it not company policy to allow stored but viable locomotives to sit rotting in sidings for a decade or more before offering them for sale?

On a similar note, it’s gone quiet with the Class 90s that were very recently withdrawn from service.

 

[ExRes]

It seems that this list was issued in error and swiftly withdrawn, the 16 locos listed were

001/007/010/015/019/020/039/040/044/059/063/065/066/079/092/100

Reported on WNXX this evening (7th March) that the list has now been officially released with a closing date of 22nd March

Stored in 2015 - 079
Stored in 2021 - 063
Stored in 2022 - 019/039
Stored in 2023 - 001/007/010/015/020/040/044/059/065/066/092

Also stored in 2021 is 100 which is RHDAB designated

 

[The_Train]

Also stored in 2021 is 100 which is RHDAB designated

I've not heard of this before - what is it all about? I've made an assumption in my own head that it basically means the loco is designated to be saved as a heritage item whatever happens to the rest of the fleet, but that may be just wishful thinking in my own head

 

[ExRes]

I've not heard of this before - what is it all about? I've made an assumption in my own head that it basically means the loco is designated to be saved as a heritage item whatever happens to the rest of the fleet, but that may be just wishful thinking in my own head

It's the Railway Heritage Designation Advisory Board, formerly the Railway Heritage Committee which was closed in 2013, 60100 is recognised with the reference 2011/10 listed on 15th July 2011, don't worry I'm not half that clever this is the info on WNXX

The question in my mind is why Land Recovery would buy a dozen basket cases when most of this new list has been in service recently, I guess there must be some economic reason for it, in my non technical brain I would have thought a Super60 Mk2 overhaul/rebuild would be better than complete rebuilds from scratch

 

[The_Train]

It's the Railway Heritage Designation Advisory Board, formerly the Railway Heritage Committee which was closed in 2013, 60100 is recognised with the reference 2011/10 listed on 15th July 2011, don't worry I'm not half that clever this is the info on WNXX

The question in my mind is why Land Recovery would buy a dozen basket cases when most of this new list has been in service recently, I guess there must be some economic reason for it, in my non technical brain I would have thought a Super60 Mk2 overhaul/rebuild would be better than complete rebuilds from scratch

I saw it on WNXX as well but I have no idea what it all means

As for the latter part, you'd certainly think that Land Recovery would want a few working examples even if they took on some of the more long term demics for parts as well. Presumably it all boils down to the cost and maybe they think it is more cost effective to buy the more demic locos at a lower price and bring them back to working order than pay a much higher price for working examples. A strategy full of risk if that is their thinking.

However, my mind cannot help but head towards the thought of 60014 at Longport and the exploratory work done on that with regards to engine refitting. I know that is a GB loco but with Land Recovery being based just down the tracks, I can't help but think if 014 was used as a guinea pig for what Land Recovery have planned. Would certainly explain why they don't want to pay the price for fully operational locos. Probably a case of 2+2=5 but they haven't done the work with 014 for no reason

 

[156444]

It's the Railway Heritage Designation Advisory Board, formerly the Railway Heritage Committee which was closed in 2013, 60100 is recognised with the reference 2011/10 listed on 15th July 2011, don't worry I'm not half that clever this is the info on WNXX

The question in my mind is why Land Recovery would buy a dozen basket cases when most of this new list has been in service recently, I guess there must be some economic reason for it, in my non technical brain I would have thought a Super60 Mk2 overhaul/rebuild would be better than complete rebuilds from scratch

I wonder if it is perhaps as simple as the new list not having been made available before Land Recovery made their purchases?

 

[43096]

I saw it on WNXX as well but I have no idea what it all means

As for the latter part, you'd certainly think that Land Recovery would want a few working examples even if they took on some of the more long term demics for parts as well. Presumably it all boils down to the cost and maybe they think it is more cost effective to buy the more demic locos at a lower price and bring them back to working order than pay a much higher price for working examples. A strategy full of risk if that is their thinking.

However, my mind cannot help but head towards the thought of 60014 at Longport and the exploratory work done on that with regards to engine refitting. I know that is a GB loco but with Land Recovery being based just down the tracks, I can't help but think if 014 was used as a guinea pig for what Land Recovery have planned. Would certainly explain why they don't want to pay the price for fully operational locos. Probably a case of 2+2=5 but they haven't done the work with 014 for no reason

It depends what they want. If the plan is a Class 69-style gut and complete rebuild then it makes no odds if they are recent runners or not.

 

[Rail Quest]

The question in my mind is why Land Recovery would buy a dozen basket cases when most of this new list has been in service recently, I guess there must be some economic reason for it, in my non technical brain I would have thought a Super60 Mk2 overhaul/rebuild would be better than complete rebuilds from scratch

Interesting point! Perhaps the broken locos were so long gone that the price they managed to get them for was equivalent to the price of one or two working locomotives or less. If so, then provided the cost of a full rebuild does not drastically exceed the cost of buying a working (ish) loco and getting it back up and running, then I can imagine it would be logical to do a conversion program as they'd theoretically end up with more reliable locomotives and won't have to pay extortionate amounts in maintenance costs to Toton/Loughborough

 

[The_Train]

It depends what they want. If the plan is a Class 69-style gut and complete rebuild then it makes no odds if they are recent runners or not.

That's why my mind ventured towards 60014 and the exploratory work that has gone on with trialling the fitment of alternative engines. As you say, if this is the avenue Land Recovery are heading down it would make zero sense to pay a higher price for working locos if they are going to strip them down anyway

 

[wickham]

A lot of things have happened in fairly quick succession recently and one does wonder if Land Recovery made their decision well before later Class 60 sales were announced. Also to be born in mind is that TPE/DRS are reportedly handing 68019-32 back to Beacon Rail shortly - so there are going to be pretty new (hardly used) locos avaliable very shortly which might also negate GBRfs 69 rebuild and 66 import program - although as things are signed and sealed these things are unlikely to change. All those Class 60s stored at Brush Works Loughborough might not now have a future if the recently offered upgraded and better condition Class 60s are thought to be a better option !

 

[Wyrleybart]

I think it all pivots on what happens to the locomotive formerly known as 60014.
Has a C175 shaped power unit been delivered to Longport yet ? Or is it a V12 710 series ?

After the work needed to produce the class 69s, perhaps the rebuild quote needs revising.
However. It was probably easier for Electromotive (name ??) to convert 56009 into a 69, than stripping one of the complete Fertis examples. So perhaps the power units from the demic 60s could be flogged to the maritime sector for spares ?

 

[hwl]

I think it all pivots on what happens to the locomotive formerly known as 60014.
Has a C175 shaped power unit been delivered to Longport yet ? Or is it a V12 710 series ?

Traditionally it is far easier to get approval for an engine retrofit to current on previous emission stage rather than 2 stages ago, hence C175 is more likely

After the work needed to produce the class 69s, perhaps the rebuild quote needs revising.
However. It was probably easier for Electromotive (name ??) to convert 56009 into a 69, than stripping one of the complete Fertis examples.

So perhaps the power units from the demic 60s could be flogged to the maritime sector for spares ?

CalMac are desperate in need for the common parts for their V12s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2024 ==

A lot of things have happened in fairly quick succession recently and one does wonder if Land Recovery made their decision well before later Class 60 sales were announced. Also to be born in mind is that TPE/DRS are reportedly handing 68019-32 back to Beacon Rail shortly - so there are going to be pretty new (hardly used) locos avaliable very shortly which might also negate GBRfs 69 rebuild and 66 import program - although as things are signed and sealed these things are unlikely to change. All those Class 60s stored at Brush Works Loughborough might not now have a future if the recently offered upgraded and better condition Class 60s are thought to be a better option !

Heavy haul freight e.g. 60 mph box wagons needs 6 axle locos not 4 axle ones geared for 100mph especially in autumn.

 

[Class15]

On a similar note, it’s gone quiet with the Class 90s that were very recently withdrawn from service.

Indeed. I think all 24 DB locos, including the 12 in serviceable condition, are still on the books of DBC.

 

[43096]

Also to be born in mind is that TPE/DRS are reportedly handing 68019-32 back to Beacon Rail shortly

Which is a good thing if you're a taxpayer! You would rather hope that DRS had back-to-backed the lease lengths of that batch with Beacon against what TPE had signed up for. DRS haven't always been that commercially aware in the past.

 

[ExRes]

Another whopping bunch available for sale today, I make it 31, on the DB Disposal site

003/005/023/025/027/030/031/033/034/035/041/042/043/045/049/051/053/054/058/067/069/071/072/073/082/083/088/091/094/097/500

All at Toton barring 082 at Crewe, closing date 19th April

So to try to get an up to date situation

12 in January 2023 - 012/032/036/037/048/052/068/077/078/084/089/093 which are the Land Recovery batch, all at Toton ** Now stored at Radway Green **

16 in March 2024 - 001/007/010/015/019/020/039/040/044/059/063/065/066/079/092/100 buyer(s) unknown, all at Toton

4 - 006 @ Scrapped, 050/086 @ Kinsley, 081 @ LSL Margate

19 - 028/029/046/055 operational with DCR, 099 under repair, 008/009/013/022/038/057/061/064/070/075/080/090/098 stored, 060 spares donor

13 - 002/021/026/047/056/076/085/087/095/096 operational with GBRf, 014 @ Longport, 004 @ Toton & 018 @ Loughborough Brush all transferred to the GBSD storage pool

5 - 011/017/024/062/074 stored with DB




* For legal reasons I retain the right as a fully qualified and practicing OAP to have put the same number twice although, hopefully, I haven't

 

[ExRes]

Reported on WNXX that 60032 (Land Recovery) has been moved into position for collection and removal by road from Toton, destination as yet unknown

 

[50002Superb]

I took a walk along Toton Bank today and noticed that the 60s had been moved around, which now provide good views of 60023, 33 and 34.

Does anyone know where in the line 60084 is situated?

 

[Adrian Barr]

Does anyone know where in the line 60084 is situated?

I'm not sure how recently they've been moved around, but viewed from the north end 60084 should be the 4th loco in the middle line: https://www.flickr.com/photos/httpwwwpeakdaleworkscom/53671087574/

Number visible in this photo: https://www.flickr.com/photos/90265707@N03/53695729681/

Footage from Toton taken last week to compare (on DestinationTrainPlanes Channel):

 

[50002Superb]

I'm not sure how recently they've been moved around, but viewed from the north end 60084 should be the 4th loco in the middle line: https://www.flickr.com/photos/httpwwwpeakdaleworkscom/53671087574/

Number visible in this photo: https://www.flickr.com/photos/90265707@N03/53695729681/

Footage from Toton taken last week to compare (on DestinationTrainPlanes Channel):

Ok, that makes sense, thank you.

Looks like a trip to the A52 bridge.

 

[ExRes]

With no movement of the 12 Class 60s bought by Land Recovery so far it's been announced that Aggregate Industries UK, part of the Holcim Group, has acquired the Land Recovery business

 

[37114]

With no movement of the 12 Class 60s bought by Land Recovery so far it's been announced that Aggregate Industries UK, part of the Holcim Group, has acquired the Land Recovery business

60032 moved from Toton yesterday apparently

 

[WesternLancer]

60032 moved from Toton yesterday apparently

A friend of mine saw it on the A50 going towards Stoke on a low loader yesterday. Anyone know where it may have been going?

 

[Trainman40083]

A friend of mine saw it on the A50 going towards Stoke on a low loader yesterday. Anyone know where it may have been going?

Well, don't Land Recovery operate that site at Longport that recycles ballast?